Kenmore Has me Stumped

[Johninmi]

I’m having a problem with a Kenmore that’s from about the mid-70’s, model #110.73982100, serial #C93307307. I’ve checked everything I can think of, and have run out of ideas of where to go from here. Hopefully, someone here can give me an idea of what I might check next.

This machine has two drain hoses. It is supposed to pump the wash-water out one drain hose and the rinse-water out the second hose.

The problem is that the washer will not agitate in the Rinse mode, and will not pump the water out in the Rinse mode. All operations seem normal in the Wash mode. (It does agitate and spin okay in the Wash mode).

Following are the things I’ve checked; all test okay:
o) Wigwag solenoids, both Spin and Agitate have continuity
o) Wigwag plungers, plunger-pins, and free movement of the plunger-pins in the Cam bars.
o) Free movement of the Cam bars in their guides.
o) Lid switch
o) Wiring between the Timer and the Agitate solenoid, and between the Lid Switch and Spin Solenoid.
o) Water hoses are all clear and in good condition; no kinks
o) Pump is working, since it pumps out the water after the Wash cycle.
o) Water-level Switch has continuity between V&P wiring with tub empty, and between V&T wiring with tub full.
o) Air pressure hose for Water-level switch is air-tight and free of water.
o) Suds-valve is switching between the “Wash-drain” circuit and the “Rinse-drain” circuit when it’s supposed to. It’s also closing off the drain hose that’s not being used (that is, it’s sealing okay).
o) I’ve tried another timer; the symptoms did not change.

I think that’s all the symptoms. Can anyone suggest anything else to check? Thanks!!

john

 

[coldspot66]

Does it fill for rinse and then just sit there when it should be agitating? Does it make any motor noise at all? Do you have it connected to both hot and cold water. Does the water temp switch have all cold rinses? If it doesn't fill at the rinse fill mark, you could have a dead solenoid on the inlet valve? Am I veering off in the wrong direction/

 

[bpetersxx]

I might be out in left field but the suds level switch might be bad.

In the Sears Belt driven service manual it is console area section 10 procedure G page 49.

Kenny GF is a fountain of info on Sears washers

 

[fixerman]

Coldspot66,I don'think you are veering at all. That was my first thought too. Anyway the water valve or it's controls are likely suspects here and the next thing to check.

 

[DADoES]

Hmm. But he didn't say that it doesn't fill for rinse, just that it doesn't agitate.

On that point, my first thought is timer, but he said that has already been swapped.

What is a suds level switch?

 

[goatfarmer]

I've had bad timers that did similar,but you said you changed that.Replacement timer known to be good?

kennyGF

 

[magic clean]

The riddle of the day

John, if your washer fills, agitates, pumps out & spins during the wash, that might eliminate everything you've checked. (assuming the machine fills correctly, hot, warm & cold water fill o.k) The rinse is just a shorter version of the wash cycle, so the same components are functional, so your list of:
*wig-wag
*wig-wag plungers, pins & cam bars
*Lid switch
*wiring would seem to be o.k. (but maybe not)
*hoses
*pump
*pressure switch
*suds valve
*timer

all should be o.k. I'm thinking there is a loose or broken wire(s). *If* the washer fills to the required level, then just stops and sits, you should at least hear the hum & click of the agitate wig-wag coil. As you know the motor should be running now too. If the agitate wig-wag coil was bad, the washer would pump out as soon as the motor started. If you hear the hum or click, then you know your getting power at least to that point. Since the motor is not running..........something seems to be wrong here. Is the motor overheating and shutting down? If so, you should still get power to agitate coil. Can you immediately reset the time to the wash cycle and get it to agitate, drain and spin? If so, that would eliminate the motor etc.

I would suggest looking at the wiring harness connector terminals at the timer and the connector that is seated on the washer top in the right rear corner.

Another question, is the machine completely "dead" or if left alone does the timer eventually advance through the rinse etc? Keep us posted.........Leslie

 

[Johninmi]

Hi,coldspot66,
Thanks for your suggestion. The tub DOES fill for the Rinse cycle, and the motor runs. But, neither the Agitate or the Spin cam bars are engaged at any part of the Spin cycle.

I forgot to mention in my first post that the tub does fill for the Rinse cycle. But, I've had the water-temp set on the Hot setting. I will check the cold-water solenoid. Could a no-cold-water condition cause the thing to not go through the Agitate and Spin parts of the Rinse cycle? I'm assuming the inlet solenoid is good, since the washer does fill for the Wash cycle. I checked the water-temp switch in the "warm" setting but did not check for ALL water-temp settings. Could the Water-temp switch be defective but still let the washer fill for the Wash cycle? At any rate, I will check all settings for the water-temp switch.

I also forgot to mention in my first post that the pump on this machine is a two-hose pump. Since the water is being pumped out for the Wash cycle, I'm assuming that the pump is okay.

Thanks, again!

 

[Johninmi]

Wow!
Thanks, guys, for all your ideas.

The motor DOES run whenever it's supposed to be running. It doesn't overheat or trip the thermal cutout or anything like that. It running when the machine is supposed to be dong the Rinse stuff. The belt is good, no slipping. The timer-motor is running and advancing the timer through all the switching steps.

I don't remember who asked, but the "suds-switch" is a solenoid which changes hose connections to the pump. It switches the output of the pump between the Drain hose and the Recirculate filter. The pump recirculates the water whenever the machine is not draining.

I think maybe magic clean may be on to something with his suggestion of a broken wire or a corroded terminal at the connector. I'll check that out tomorrow morning.

I think I'll also re-check the timer I substituted. I guess I could have two bad timers.

The thing that i can't understand is that the Agitate and the Spin cam-bars never move during the Rinse cycle. But, I've checked the wiring for continuity between the coils and the timer and it's okay. And, the solenoids are doing their thing okay when the machine is in the Wash part of the cycle. It's crazy!

I'm obviously missing something... I just don't know what it is. :-(

Thanks, again.

 

[coldspot66]

If neither cam bar engages, then it must fill and then drain as soon as the motor starts, then when the water level switch resets, it will fill again and drain again. At this point it may be a bad timer. Was the replacement a rebuilt timer or brand new. You have me stumped too! Sometimes solenoids ohm out ok, then when you apply power and they get warm, they cut out. Let us know what you find.

 

[Unimatic1140]

I the washer fills for the rinse and the motor is started when the proper water level is reach (water temperature is not a factor only water level) I would guess it would be the Control Magnet Assembly (wig-wag) BUT since the shifter cam bars seem to work fine for the wasy cycle this would only leave the timer left as the cluprit. The timer cam for the agitate solenoid (and possible spin solenoid too) might be misaligned or worn down even and its not making the connection properly during the rinse.

If it works for the wash, it should work for the rinse then. I'm sure there is no difference in wiring between wash and rinse mode for the mechanical features such as the motor, agitator and extractor cam solenoids.

 

[repair-man]

I would try a new wigwag...

As coldspot66 mentioned, the solenoids can fail intermittently. I have seen wigwags that work for 10 minutes before they fail. (Heat-up) Could be that it works at the beginning of the cycle (it's cold) and then fails when it's energized for rinse. Ed

 

[agitatethis]

Repairman, you are on the money. I have seen, even straight from the factory, the wiring harness plug that may be not pluggedin all the way and you also have to take this into consideration, if a person moves his machine from one house to another twice a year---there are things such as wiring harnesses and rubber boots etc that can get tweaked a bit from the moving and trauma caused during long truck rides on bumpy roads. Keep this in mind. I have sold leak-free wahers to people many times and get calls later that day that it poured water out from underneath it after they got it home. Well, I ask them if they tilted the darn thing over and the boot has slipped off. Usually, that is the case.

 

[Johninmi]

Well,Guys......

The problem was NOT the timer, but rather a blocked re-circ filter.

As I mentioned, the machine would drain in the Wash mode but not in the Rinse mode. Also, the Agitate and Spin would not work in the Rinse cyle.

The problem was caused by a blockage in Re-circ filter. This machine has some kind of suds-saver. There are two drain hoses and two routes by which the machine drains. The Wash water drains through the regular drain outlet in the outer tub, but the Rinse water drains through the filter. There is a solenoid valve which connects the pump to one or the other. The filter was blocked with lint and would not allow the water to drain. This then messed up the cycles on the timer, I guess, which is what caused the Wash and Spin to not work during the Rinse cycle.

The filter was the last on my list of things to check. Since the machine is so old (but in good condition) I didn't want to tear into it to get to the filter. I didn't want to pull the tub because I was afraid of the slippery slope of one-after-another parts falling apart or being rusted/corroded, etc as I took it apart, simply from age. As it turned out, the removal of the tub went well. All the rubber parts were still pretty flexible and the basket-block, lock-nut, spin-tube, etc were in pretty good shape. The macine is back together again and working well.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

[DADoES]

Hmmm. I'm really not understanding how a clogged lint filter can prevent it from agitating in the deep-rinse after it has filled. Blocking pump-out, yes, but not agitation. Interesting.

 

[Johninmi]

Hmmm....

DADoES, your comment makes perfect sense!! I don't know...

I guess it's possible that I got my symptoms mixed up... I was manually advancing the timer during my diagnosis. I may have missed (passed up) some of the steps in the cycle by doing so.

It sure would have saved me a lot of time and frustration if I had realized that I was dealing with ONLY a non-pump-out condition rather than what I thought was a combination of three "failures". I spent hours and hours and hours trying to figure out what failed parts would cause that combination of symptoms. And, as I checked the wig-wag, the timer, the pump, the water valve, the switches, the wiring, etc, and found each part to be okay, I became more and more frustrated.

It just shows the importance of getting the symptoms right!!