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<blockquote>Exactly how does the F+P do this?? How does it sense load size? By the amount of resistance to the agitation? Or does it have some sort of scale attached to the basket that weighs the load?

Is there a way to make it think it's washing a full load of sheets when there is actually nothing in there???
</blockquote>Water level sensing and fabric/agitation sensing are two separate processes and features. The "base" EcoSmart (GWL) agitator model has water level sensing, but not fabric sensing (although agitation does vary a little within a cycle according to the water level). The Intuitive (IWL) models add fabric sensing.

My older GWL08 doesn't have fabric sensing per se, but the agitation does vary a little *during* the wash cycle in response to how the load moves.

Water level sensing is a two-step process. First, the load is weighed by way of the machine sensing when the basket has floated. A dome under the inner basket traps air when the machine fills, which causes it to float upward about 3/8" to disengage from the drive coupler. The machine senses this by rotating the basket at 25 RPM during fill, and pulsing the motor every few seconds to check rotational resistance and inertia. A heavier/larger saturated load counteracts the flotation effect resulting in a higher fill. Once the basket has floated, fill continues to the next discrete water level (there are five for agitator-type machines). At that point, a series of agitation strokes checks resistance of the load against the agitator fins with whatever algorithms the engineers have programmed. If the computations don't satisfy the controller, it fills to the next level and tests again.

Fabric sensing on the IWL models occurs after water level sensing is complete and is via a different pattern of agitation strokes, again checking resistance of the load against the agitator fins and computing an agitation speed based on the programmed algorithms. IWL models don't have a selection of typical cycles -- Heavy, Regular, Delicate, etc. Instead, there's one basic cycle, a choice of soil level, and several modifiers (Handwash, Creasables, Woolens), along with the usual other options for temperature, water level and so forth. For a "normal" load, the user presses Power, selects a soil level, other modifiers if desired, and Start. Soil level coupled with fabric sensing determines the agitation speed and wash time. Higher agitation speeds result in longer agitation times for the same soil level. A load of jeans at normal soil with Firm agitation runs for a longer wash time than a load of casuals at normal soil with Medium agitation.

Loading methods can have an effect. Wrapping large or heavy items such as sheets, blankets, or jeans around the agitator tends to increase resistance and may result in a higher water level and/or stronger agitation. On the other hand a lightweight but large item such as an acrylic thermal blanket or mattress cover that doesn't have much saturation weight may result in a low water level and/or light agitation.

Water level can be set manually to any of the five levels, so no tricks are necessary. However, with auto-sensing, holding the basket down during water level sensing so it fills higher before floating, and/or grabbing the agitator during the test strokes would simulate a load being present when one isn't.
 
Thanks very much DADoES.

You are the last word on these washers.

By the way, I noticed on one of the YouTube videos that there were different agitation speeds on an F+P made in Australia.
 
Update: SO I Decided on the Kenmore Elite Oasis 28042

I had spend the last couple weeks online, going back n forth
to Sears, Consumer Reports, Consumer Affairs, you name it.
I finally settled on the Kenmore Elite 28042 Oasis with the
Agitator. They delievered yesterday and took away my
Defective Maytag Centennial Pair (MTW5900Two & MED5800Two)

I have to say WOW!! What an incredible difference! The
Washer is SO Quiet! No more thunking on my kitchen ceiling!
No more banging from the spin! In fact, when it was
spinning, you couldn't even tell from downstairs. I went to
check on it and it was humming away! I even went a little
manic, and I ordered the HE Glass top lid so that I can watch the washer in action! <=)

I just hope all the kinks have been worked out, Circuit Board
shorting out, draining pump leaking.... I bought a single
outlet surge protector and have a drain pain to be proactive just in case!
Keep your fingers crossed! X X

And thanks to all for your thoughts. It was appreciated.

 
So you got the agitator model with the glass lid? Would you be able to post some videos of it? I don't think any have been posted yet.
 
I'll keep you guys posted!

The Lid is supposed to arrive on Wednesday, I'll probably tackle it next weekend when I replace the Plastic Overflow Tub. The Sears Delivery guys broke the one I had there that came with the house. <=/

I'll keep you posted, I am anxious to see it washing myself! And will be happy to post when I can!
 
Installed The Lid! LOVE IT!!

Hey Guys!

I got the Clear Glass Lid and installed it on my 28042 Oasis this weekend! I Was TOTALLY Mesmerized!! I Watched a WHOLE Whites Cycle! I was very impressed with the whole thing! I still have to set up home computer and find my camera so I can make a video of it, but as soon as I do, I will let you all know! I have to do a project for class with Photoshop so Hopefully I can do it this weekend!
 
Since the Oasis and the F&P top loaders have been mentioned in this thread and the various questions answered, I thought I'd do the same for the Harmony, as a point of comparison. Compiling the various questions that have popped up in the thread:

Does it get the clothes twisted? Hasn't been much of a problem for us. The only trick is to not pile everything on top of the center of the wash plate.

Does it get all the clothes wet? Yes. I've observed many loads, and it's almost uncanny how it nearly always gets the water level exactly to the top of the wet clothes.

How is the turnover? Kind of slow compared to a conventional top loader. But it seems to get everything clean. One odd thing is that the turnover is "backwards" from most agi machines; the clothes get pulled down into the water at the tub edge, and they pop back up at the center.

Neutral drain? Yes, sort of. The tub rotates at 25 RPM during drain. I'm not at all sure what the purpose of that is. It also rotates at this speed during fill, which the service manual explains as making sure that the water is mixed so that the temp sensor (underneath the basket) senses the water temp properly.

Noise? Extremely quiet, almost inaudible, during agitation. Unless the load is heavy, the only thing you hear is water sloshing. No motor noise at all. The drain pump is rather loud, so it is noisy during drain and spin. At max spin speed you can hear the motor (it kind of sounds like a jet engine), but mostly you just hear that darn pump.

Lint filter? None, alas.

Spin speed? The max is 1040 RPM.

Fabric sensing? No. There are four levels of "wash action": vigorous, normal, delicate, and handwash. Selecting a fabric selects a corresponding wash action, but you can always change it. The wash action setting effects both the rotating speed and the length of the stroke during agitation. It also effects the spin speed. Vigorous and normal both get the full speed spin of 1040 RPM. IIRC, delicate spins at 700 RPM, and handwash spins at 500.

Water level control? The Harmony doesn't have the floating-basket mechanism of the Oasis. It initially senses the load by rotating the wash plate a few times through the dry clothes at the very start of the cycle. When the fill is near complete, it will take a few more strokes. Then it will agitate for a minute or so. If it decides that there is still too much resistance, it puts more water in. It may go through this several times (max I've seen was 3). If you lift the lid during the early part of the wash cycle, it will test the load again before it resumes, to see if you added anything. If so, it will add more water. There seem to be an infinite number of possible water levels, although I recall the service manual saying that there are around 15. The load isn't sensed again for rinse; the rinse always fills to the same level as what the wash ended up at. There are a few special cycles, such as the blankets cycle, that always fill to the max level.

Spray rinse? Sort of. It's kind of strange. After the wash drain, it ramps up and spins for several minutes. Then it stops. As soon as the basket has stopped, the drain pump comes back on and the motor spins the basket at 25 RPM while some water is dispensed -- not very much, only a few seconds' worth. Then it ramps back up and spins for a minute or two more. I think they did it this way because the tub is very softly sprung and it moves a lot if the load is a bit off balance. I suppose it's possible that with a wobbly load, if it tried to spray rinse at speed, some of the water might miss the tub. However, as it is, most of the water misses the clothes. It doesn't look very effective.

A couple of other interesting bits:

The tub brake is a hysteresis circuit. There's a big power resistor in the panel that dissipates the energy if you lift the lid during spin. It stops amazingly fast. However, normally, it doesn't use the brake. At the end of the spin, it simply lets eddy currents in the permanant-magnet motor stop the basket. This takes about 30 seconds and it makes a most interesting noise as it does it. The brake does get tested briefly during ramp-up of each spin. You can see when it does it because it creates a torque reaction that rotates the outer tub a bit.

There's a thing they call a "clutch", but it isn't a clutch in the conventional sense. What it does is engage and disengage the basket from the motor. (The wash plate is hard-coupled to the motor.) The mechanism is driven by a small motor. When it is changing position, if the room is quiet and you listen carefully, you can hear it. There's a click and a small whirring sound. After each change of position, it tests to make sure the clutch is in the position it is supposed to be in by jerking the wash plate back and forth a bit.

It has the best dispensers I've ever seen. There is a pull-out drawer with compartments for pre-soak, wash, and fabric softener. They all get throughly flushed with water under full line pressure, and there's never any buildup. The bleach dispenser is an odd thing that empties via a siphon. You put your bleach in. Near the end of the wash cycle, it adds water to the bleach dispenser until it starts to siphon out. Then, the water stops, and the siphon empties the dispenser. It flushes it again with water in between the end of the spin and the start of the rinse fill. This bit is weird when you first see it because it isn't spinning, you can hear water running, but you can't see where. Then, after it has filled the bleach dispenser, the rinse fill starts while the dispenser siphons out.
 
Trying again

Hey Guys...

I tried to take a video of my Oasis last night, but apparently my camera wasn't capable of streaming video...

So I am hoping to try again this weekend with my web-cam and laptop. Will keep you posted.

~Brant
 
Bad News Guys...

Sorry to get your hopes up...

I tried doing a test run video with my web cam and it looked like an animated GIF.. quality was terrible. I even went to YouTube to try and do a quick vid but it wasn't any better. I then tried with my Digital Camera, but it's an older model and it doesn't support video.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will have any video of my washer to upload anytime soon.

Sorry to disappoint... <=(
~Brant
 

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