Kenmore Permanent Press I &II

[qsd-dan]

I can't wait until you get that setup operational. I'm really curious about the results of using 175F cycle temps, just have a fire extinguisher handy and don't let the dryer out of your sight while it's running. I know it's only a 15F-ish difference front stock temps but that heating element is very close to the drum grates and front seal.

The only problem using an HOH with the auto dry feature is that you can't customize the cool down period, which is possible with the 606/806/906 electronic controlled HOH models. A 7-10 minute cool down period is crucial to de-wrinkling the load in that small drum. I use an adjustable cool down thermo in my electronic controlled HOH's (except the DE701), just crank them down to 90F which provides on average 10 minutes of cool down time.

 

[maytag85]

Reply #19

I can’t wait to get it operational but the most difficult part will be trying to find a Maytag 808 console. I am willing to bet it will dry fairly quickly with a 175F temperature for the high heat setting and will for sure keep a close eye on it but the high limit thermostat which is a Supco L180-40 more than likely will kick the heating element off before it has a chance to get too hot. A 180F high limit thermostat is 10F more than the stock 170F they originally came with but will still kick the heating element off before it even has a chance to overheat. Even if the heating element is too close to for comfort to the drum for some people, I’d trust a Maytag HOH more than any Westinghouse slant front dryer, GE dryers from the mid 60’s and on, and last but not least WCI dryers since they have heating elements that tend to sag which can either cause it to short out or will have a grounding heating which will never shut off causing the dryer to overheat and GE dryers have a tendency to do that as well. Another thing too is GE and WCI dryers have a 5600 watt heating element which definitely is too close for comfort to the drum, the Westinghouse slant front dryers have the heating element located a little further from the drum but got well over 200F in operation, some of the Westinghouse slant front dryers had an automatic dry which was simple but would literally run until it reached a outrageously hot temperature then wham! No cool down and you’d probably would burn or scorch your hands trying to remove the hot clothing not to mention items would either get wrinkled or would slowly get cooked with whatever heat was left over. My new acronym for Westinghouse dryers is the slant front HOH dryers which is short for ‘Heat Of Hell’, not to get confused with Halo Of Heat

 

[qsd-dan]

Well, if you have the adjustable thermo and 180F hi limit thermo already on hand, you can install them and give it try. Might be better to do some testing with the old console than the TOL 808, just in case.

I've read on here about old Westinghouse dryers being blow torches but never used one, so I can't form an opinion. Dryers were, on average, pretty crude and archaic in the 40's through the early/mid 50's.

I did play a bit with an early 80's BOL GE dryer and it seemed fine. My buddy got it in 2004 for free, along with a low end Filter Flo washer. I do remember him saying that the original owner cautioned about the dryer being prone to fires. Maybe the heating element was the reason. That was 18 years ago now (wow, time fly's). I thought it was pretty cool that GE was still coating their drums with porcelain. They had to be the last manufacture on the planet doing it by then. I certainly give them the appreciable nod for carrying that tradition.

Never played with a WCI dryer, I'll have to take your word on that one.

 

[maytag85]

Reply #21

I already have the the 180F high limit thermostat installed along with the 120F and adjustable thermostats installed at the moment. I might test it out with the old console just to be sure but will have to wire it up and re-spade some of the wires since I might as well while it’s all apart.

Yeah, a lot of dryers from the 40’s to about mid 50’s were crude with the set up they had since Whirlpool used the same design from 1948 to 1960. Maytag used the same design I believe from 1950 to the very early 60’s in the water condensing models and the vented gas and electric vented models where the lint screen slid out like a drawer. GE changed their dryer designs a few times throughout the 50’s, in the late 50’s they west to a design similar to what they are using now but had a v-belt the went to one of the rollers which turned the drum and Norge used a similar drum drive to what GE was using in the late 50’s. Maytag of course used the HOH design from 1957/1958 all the way to 1975 and early 1976. It simply amazes me how they used to overbuild dryers back then, I was simply amazed on the 1956 Whirlpool Imperial dryer RickR got back sometime in 2004 when he removed the rear panel along with the cabinet revealing the chassis/base and seeing what one of those older Whirlpool dryers looked like inside. 17 year old me back in February of 2017 was like “Wow! how does it sound and look like when in operation?”. I already saw redcarpetdrew’s videos on the 1970 Maytag DE906 a few years prior back in 2015 so I had somewhat of a understanding to how the HOH dryers running gear looked like when in operation but hadn’t seen any videos of the older Whirlpool dryers in operation since there weren’t any on YouTube at the time. Another thing that surprised me is how the older Whirlpool and Kenmore gas dryers came with the 37,000 btu burner which much make a load roar when it fires up.

The only dryers I have experience with the Maytag HOH dryers gas and electric (technically have more experience with the gas versions), the older pre 1966 Whirlpool 29” dryers (my 1963 Whirlpool dryer is my first 29” dryer I’ve owned so far), Kenmore compact 24” dryer, and Maytag SOH dryers and those are all the dryers I have experience with in my 5 years of collecting.

 

[rpms]

Wonder how the perma press was handled when you still just had a wringer?

 

[maytag85]

Reply #23

Not sure, probably only washed Permanent Press items for 5 to 6 minutes.

 

[launderess]

Owners manual for my Maytag wringer (printed in 1960's) covers "Wash and Wear".

Advice is launder lightly soiled synthetics in cold water, and moderately to heavy in warm water. This to avoid creases being set when things were put through wringer. Suggested wash time was five (5) minutes.

Obviously one wasn't going to be using soap but detergent at those temps.

Going by information in Reply #16 film from Whirlpool, it is possible to do synthetics in a semi-automatic in hot or very water wash. You'd just have to stand there and partially drain washer of hot water, fill with cold, agitate, partially drain, fill, etc.. several times to gradually bring down fabric temperature.

This would use incredible amounts of water not to mention take time.

 

[DADoES]

 
Early WP/KM Perm Press instructions advised hot water for white and heavy-soil items, warm for colors, normal/light soil.  KM alphabet and WP/LK pushbutton timers were programmed as such.

 

[appnut]

Some earlier WP/LK Pushbutton models was hot for whites/heavy soil and medium for colors.

 

[DADoES]

 
With medium being a warmer-than-warm mix of tap-hot + warm.

 

[launderess]

As that Whirlpool film makes clear you want hot water (120 to 140 degrees F) for best possible cleaning and to release any wear wrinkles.

Even today makers of 100% poly or various poly/cotton blends recommend commercial laundry wash formulas with at said temps. Long as temperature is gradually brought down before extraction no thermal creasing will occur.

It does help that most industrial/commercial wash programs do not extract between wash and rinses baths.

Things to remember about most man made fibers is they are hydrophobic (resist water), but love or at least will hold onto oils and fats. High water temperatures and good detergency (with perhaps solvents) are best way to get oil out of such fibers.

If not laundered properly white items made from synethic fabrics begin to take on a dull tattle-tale grey cast. This and marks aren't totally removed (shadow stains), and whiff (body odor) isn't removed.

 

[appnut]

Medium temp on 33" LK Combo filled with warm water and then onboard heater heated to 120 degrees. Medium for LK top loader was also supposed to be 120F.

 

[launderess]

Find it comical that years ago 110 to 120 degrees F was considered "moderately warm". Hot water was 140 to 160 degrees F.

 

[qsd-dan]

Find it comical that years ago 110 to 120 degrees F was cons

Well, get ready to laugh your ass off, some manufactures consider 100F and under as "hot" today, including some dishwashers. On top of that, we have the "cold" wash only movement.....eh, I don't care what side of the isle you're on about the environmental movement, just say "no" to that. Pretty please? Then everybody's scratching their heads why stinky washers and nasty buildup is the norm and we run "clean" cycles using "clean" detergent products on a regular basis now. God forbid you live in a humid environment. Un-freakin-believable.

I've said it many times here, my temper valve is set at 85F for cold and the water heater is at 160F. 120F warm is smack dead in the middle, rock solid, every time. No need for fancy detergents, most pretreatments, clean cycles, or internal heaters with loooooong cycles.....that contain products with motherboards that like to die.

 

[blockeight88]

Cold Wash

I agree entirely with your post about cold washes. Every time I see those Tide commercials promoting cold washes I cringe. I don't care what they say, cold water doesn't clean your clothes. I feel like it just makes them smell good by covering up the bacteria. The average front loader washer must stink of mildew. A lot of people I know wash exclusively in cold water.

I will gladly continue to use warm and hot for washes and warm water to rinse.

 

[Chetlaham]

Has anyone ever been able to tell the difference in outcomes between PP, PP-I and P-II?

I could be wrong, but personally I think fancy permanent press cycles are merely a gimmick as nothing is gained or achieved through fancy cool downs and low speed spins. I see it as just wasting water and energy without consumers being aware unless they read up on what the cycle does- and often user guide descriptions don't go into the full details.

As mentioned dryers are what relax and prevent wrinkles.

All dryers should have a long cool down period as this saves energy (residual heat still gives off water vapor) while assuring clothes do not come out hot enough to burn people. I've had people tell me stories of being burned by metal buttons.

It is for these reason I think the words "permanent press" should have been dropped from all washers and dryers with manufacturers focusing on just 3 to 5 cycle categories based on cloth wear alone:

1) Heavy Duty (fast/fast) with long wash time and extra rinse option.

2) Normal (fast/fast)

3) Casuals (slow/fast)

4) Gentle (slow/slow)

5) Handwash (extra slow/slow)

For drying:

1) Heavy Duty- High Heat
2) Normal- Medium High Heat
3) Casuals- Medium Low Heat
4) Delicate- Low Heat
5) Fine Delicate- Ex Low heat
6) Fluff

Intermittent tumble and buzzer if needed to get the clothes out of the dryer once the cycle is done.

Kenmore used this concept on their MOL and TOL models and I think it was the basis to their success.

Kenmore offered one main "catch all" cycle like Ultra Clean or Auto Dry. Everything else remained the same in the cycle except speeds or temps were altered by the user. Extra rinse or wrinkle guard were on/off if needed.

Brilliantly intuitive, and I think it reflected the reality of clothing care much better than the dogma established prior.