Kenmore Triple Action agitator or Dual Action?

[pumice]

Going to buy 1 tomorrow from SEARS. So which one is better, and by better I mean which design cleans more vigoresly? Price isn't an issue as they both are close in price. The Triple Action is around $449.

Is the Triple Action the best style of Agitator, better than Maytag or GE Agitators? I didn't notice any Whirlpool Triple Action Agitators in SEARs. I innitially wanted a SpeedQueen Agitator but it's out of my budget for now.

The other thing I wanted to ask is that all the top loading washers have COLD rinse only. Now I was always under the impression that to best extract detergent from clothes one needed warm or hot water. So how true is this?

If I connect the Mains water supply Hot water tap to the cold water inlet on the washer and then choose Cold Wash option, can I get a Hot wash & Hot Rinse? Or is there a thermostat that is linked to the Cold water Wash that will prevent this ? Is there also a thermostat linked to the Rinse cycle that will prevent a Hot Rinse?

Kenmore Model # 23102
http://www.sears.com/kenmore-3.6-cu-ft-top-load-washer-w/p-02623102000P

Thanks

 

[appnut]

Yes, this has thermostatically controlled temps.  I also believe the mixing valve is such that warm has more cold water going in that hot. 

 

[murando531]

This machine is mechanically identical to my 2012 Whirlpool WTW4800. Performance-wise it's an excellent washer. The agitation is slow but powerful and it rolls large loads over beautifully. The Whirlpool version doesn't have the "triple-action" agitator, but it's the same dual-action that WP has used for over a decade and it works just as well, if not better, in this belt-drive than it did in the DirectDrives. The Triple-Action model seems to be more of a gimmick, in that it simply has a spring system built in that pulls downward in resistance to clothing pushing upwards against it. From what I've seen in person, it seems to only have an inch or so of movement. It still turns in one direction to push clothing down anyway, and unless you overload the machine, I don't think the vertical action will be used much.

The water temps are dumbed down as appnut stated, and Hot will be Warm at best, Warm will be lukewarm to cool. I'm not sure about switching the hot and cold inlets, because I've never tried it. I've heard that the control board will error if switched, but that may only be on the Cabrio platforms. I do know that you can cut the cold supply to get a true hot fill without issue, as I always did that with towels and whites, and it would always fill properly to the very top of the tub.

As with warm or hot rinses being more effective, other members may be more knowledgeable on that. I've always used cold rinses, even on machines that offered warm rinses. Even both sets of grandparents taught me to use cold rinses, but I'm not sure if that was because it rinsed better or they just didn't want energy used on heating more water, but still, it's always worked fine my whole life. I believe that warm rinsing was more a method used for permanent press clothing, as the cooling down process helped to reduce wrinkling and make clothes that needed ironing an easier task. Modern detergents produced over the past 20 years or so have been designed to rinse effectively in cold water, and tout more than ever to be effective in cold washing as well, but I'm more skeptical about the latter.

My best overall advice for this machine: ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use the softener option for the rinse, even if you never use softener. The one rinse with softener will act as a normal washer, full wash-spin-full rinse-spin. The 2 rinse option will add a spray rinse at the end. Without the softener option, you'll only get a spray rinse, which is just a drizzle of water over the slowly turning load, and half the water doesn't even fall on the clothes.

 

[pumice]

"The Whirlpool version doesn't have the "triple-action" agitator, but it's the same dual-action that WP has used for over a decade and it works just as well, if not better, in this belt-drive than it did in the DirectDrives. The Triple-Action model seems to be more of a gimmick, in that it simply has a spring system built in that pulls downward in resistance to clothing pushing upwards against it"

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "in this belt-drive than it did in DirectDrives".

I will occasionally wash comforters so thought the Triple Action may come in handy.
Absent large loads, is it just a normal dual acton agitator?

So would you pick the Whirlpool DualAction over this Kenmore Triple Action ?

Thanks

 

[cleanteamofny]

My Direct Drive posted back in 2011:

There is a difference in action!
The spring loaded action is used when an extra large load binds up at the base slowing rollover.
The extra action pulses the load freeing the jam if the load of laundry is extra heavy.

 

[henene4]

So, which models would you basicly consider? Whicch model is the alternative to the 23102?

 

[yogitunes]

they have some of these really tricked out....

on most of these, even if Warm rinse was selected or available, its is Cooler than what would be delivered for the Wash portion of the cycle....

and a lot of them today, if Warm was selected, the fill for the rinse will be Cold, the spray rinse is what will come out Warm....so don't think your getting a deep warm water rinse...

heck, some wont even give you a HOT wash when selected, it may start out Hot for one minute, and then switch to warm for the rest of the fill.....and for some machines, you can select Hot, let it fill for a bit, and then manually switch to warm to give you the temp you want.....

if you really want true temps, as to what you select, your going to have to go back to Old School machines......very few today are giving you what you want and expect...even if you got a SQ, while not auto temp controlled, the valve is restricted from giving you a true Warm wash.....but it is an easy fix to give a 50/50 mix...

its almost as if were going back to a wringer machine, separate hoses and faucet set up, to fill the machine manually....

its also neat to see a Triple Action function....but there isn't much of a difference between the two....the corkscrew helps in a lot of ways compared to a straight vane.....

but there is a video that shows someone changed out to a straight vane, and for a normal load, it does nicely....

 

[henene4]

Don't they have flowrestrictors anyway?
One could try to take out the hot flow restrictor only. Maybe this could keep the temp higher?

 

[yogitunes]

restrictors....

some do, some don't....some have smaller/wider openings......

I took the restrictors out of my Cabrio, didn't affect temps, but it does fill faster now...that alone was worth it....

 

[pulsator]

Food for thought...

The Triple Action Kenmore agitator with the blue auger has a base with larger fins than the non-triple action agitators of other WP made machines.

 

[pumice]

Does the Triple Action Kenmore I mentioned have the 2 Agitation Wash action you see in the below Whirlpool?



On the subject of HOT wash and Rinse, I am a bit confused.

Can I get a true HOT wash and HOT Rinse by connecting the HOT water supply hose to the COLD water inlet and running the machine as COLD wash?

What Machine sold now will give me a true HOT wash?

 

[henene4]

I guess you removed both restrictors? My idea was to remove only the hot one so the flow ratio hot to cold was shifted towards hot.
Though I thought this might work better on lower end model which do not have thermistor controlled ATC and simply determine the temperature by valve opening times, you could try it on the Cabrio just that we know if it might help as well.
This is based on murando531's statement that he can simply shut of the cold water to get a true hot wash. If the more BOL WP washers would use an NTC for the ATC as the Cabrios do, they would probably throw an error code if one line would be turned off.
And the only other way to dumb down temperatures is a timed valve operation. And if it's timed, by removing only the hot water restrictor more hot water per time would enter the machine and thus warm water would be mixed warmer.
So you could get all avaible temperatures that involve the hot water valve warmer, plus a true hot wash and a true cold wash.
So youd have:
Tap Cold by the temperature selector
Cold would be a bit warmer
Cool just as well
Warm might end up actually warm
Hot with both valves open would be like "Eco Hot"
Hot with cold water turned of would be tap hot

 

[henene4]

It should have 3 basic wash motions:
Short&#92Fast used to initially soak the laundry that floats on top and used at the end of each agitation phase before drain to push laundry away from the agitator.
Long&#92Fast as normal wash motion
Long&#92Slow as gentle motion

 

[yogitunes]

it just seems the more we try to by-pass stuff, the more they are clogging the system, meaning they are making it more difficult for us to make changes...

some are switching out the flow restrictor valves for a full flow ones from vintage type machines...

no one trick is going to work for every machine....you have to see exactly what you have, and try a bunch of different things....these are only suggestions as what we have come across.....

I know on the Cabrio, Neptune, and Calypso, there must be water supply turned on to both taps, otherwise you will get an error code...

but nothing says that you can't turn down the COLD side to a bare trickle to adjust temps...

and there are some machines, like the Neptune, granted its not a time fill, but there is a certain amount of time to do this process, and if it takes too long, it will throw a code, LF(long fill)...

not sure also, what would happen if you flipped the hot for the cold hoses....once it passes that sensor for water temp, it may throw it out of whack.....

I removed the sensor from the Cabrio, it just popped out of this little slot, I would get either all hot, or all cold, but not a mix for a warm wash...

I would be curious to use a "Y" and tap both hoses from the HOT faucet....wont know until you try it...

depends too on what your water heater is set to.....as an example of the Cabrio, mine is set to 160F....if set to HOT, there is a 10 degree drop once it fills the machine...so even though it adds some COLD water, its still a very Hot wash...

SQ is probably one of the few that will give you a true HOT wash, there is no sensor.....but case in point, Warm is cool at best.....smaller opening on the Hot side, but a 5 minute job can fix that....I now get a 50/50 mix into mine....actually I have to cut the hot faucet back a bit....

now on the Frigidaire Gallery, all I had to do was unplug the sensor, and I get the pure temps I select.....no more auto mix....

each machine will react differently, depends on how they have them programmed...

 

[pumice]

Which moves the clothes around more: straight vane single action or dual/triple action (corkscrew)?

I had assumed dual/triple action but then I saw the below video of a 'hacked' washer that is straight vane and has amazingly fast turnover.

" Hot Rod Maytag washer "
"Well here we go! A 1962 Maytag A700S, fitted with the guts of a 1971 Big Tub Maytag A806, along with a 50hz pulley and belt set-up. Watch and be amazed - and look for the surprise winning combination at the end!"

 

[yogitunes]

that's not a normal wash action for that washer.....its been upgraded.....

a dual action would give the same results in that low of a water level....again, only four vanes at work....

the Dual Action is design to aid larger loads to pull them down to where the cleaning occurs....

 

[pumice]

" that's not a normal wash action for that washer.....its been upgraded.....

a dual action would give the same results in that low of a water level....again, only four vanes at work....

the Dual Action is design to aid larger loads to pull them down to where the cleaning occurs.... "

Right , but I linked to that video because I didn't think a straight-vane single action agitator could roll-over soo well.

Which brings me to the question: would a straight-vane Amana or SpeedQueen roll-over better or just as well as a dual-action Kenmore? My local BestBuy has straight-vane single action Amana agitator washer , model NTW4651BQ



......

I assume the corkscrew/dual-action would roll-over better because that is what it is touted for. While the straight-vane just moves clothes side to side?

Doesn't a dual action agitator move clothes not just side to side but up and down as it rolls over the clothes?

But does a straight-vane single action provide a more aggressive side to side movement of clothes since the vanes extend all the way up?

I would acutally get the Speed Queen if it was dual-action.

.....

So Amana straight-vane or Kenmore Dual/Triple action Agitator washer?
Is Amana a better brand than Kenmore?

 

[yogitunes]

Amana is Kenmore....or actually Whirlpool.....this is not your normal DirectDrive machine....this is a reversing motor to agitate machine....can give variable strokes for each load based on the amount of force against the motor....a small load would not get vigorous wash action that a full load would.....there are pros and cons....

here is the straight vane....watch once it changes to the long stroke...not bad turnover.....

 

[yogitunes]

and heres the Dual Action.....you can put on of these in the Amana/Admiral...both have advantages and disadvantages...