Kenmore/WP vs Others For Rinsing Ability
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John, there's no such thing as "declutching" during spray rinses on a belt-drive Kenmore or Whirlpool. Spin may slow a little due to drag of the accumulated water (or suds lock) until the pump drains it away, but the clutch doesn't disengage. The mechanism has three modes: agitate, spin, and neutral drain. Agitate and spin are mutually exclusive of each other, unless the mechanism is broken. Shifting into/out of agitate controls water recirculation vs. drain by a mechanical linkage to a valve lever on the pump. Machines that don't have a recirculating filter (either the waterfall type or the hidden self-clean) still have the pump valve, which functions to block the drain port during agitation and open the drain port when not agitating. Neutral drain is simply the motor, pump and transmission running with neither agitate or spin engaged. If not spinning, then the basket brake is engaged.
Glen--
When I had an early sixties Whirly---that used to sudz lock (imagine that!) it used to switch back and forth between drain and spin. I had seen the same thing in other Whirly/Kenmore's so I thought it was normal. Fast-forward to a conversation I had with Lefever a few years ago, and he said what was happening was that when the machine went to spin the sudz would fool the machine into thinking it had a tub of water-----so it would stop spinning.
The '63 Kenmore I have now, doesn't do that and will keep right on going sudz-lock and all----so go figya.
As for the neutral-drain issue----IMO I think it is all right as long as there are not really oily/greasy garments in the wash load. When the machine goes to drain, the foam/grease/oil gets deposited on top of the clothes it was removed from and I'm not convinced it is rinsed out by the spray-rinses. Those spray-rinses certainly don't get rid of that nasty black ring of grease/oil most of us are used to seeing at the top of the Whirly/Kenmore agitators.
I still think a good hot OVERFLOW rinse is the best way to get rid of lighter than water soils such as grease and oil, but in lieu of that I'll take a spin-drain followed by a spray-rinse any day when dealing with grease/oil in the wash.
When I had an early sixties Whirly---that used to sudz lock (imagine that!) it used to switch back and forth between drain and spin. I had seen the same thing in other Whirly/Kenmore's so I thought it was normal. Fast-forward to a conversation I had with Lefever a few years ago, and he said what was happening was that when the machine went to spin the sudz would fool the machine into thinking it had a tub of water-----so it would stop spinning.
The '63 Kenmore I have now, doesn't do that and will keep right on going sudz-lock and all----so go figya.
As for the neutral-drain issue----IMO I think it is all right as long as there are not really oily/greasy garments in the wash load. When the machine goes to drain, the foam/grease/oil gets deposited on top of the clothes it was removed from and I'm not convinced it is rinsed out by the spray-rinses. Those spray-rinses certainly don't get rid of that nasty black ring of grease/oil most of us are used to seeing at the top of the Whirly/Kenmore agitators.
I still think a good hot OVERFLOW rinse is the best way to get rid of lighter than water soils such as grease and oil, but in lieu of that I'll take a spin-drain followed by a spray-rinse any day when dealing with grease/oil in the wash.
Steve, that is true, of course. Enough water, kicked up high enough during spin, would trigger the water level switch ... but that isn't normal operation.
My dad ran a service station (Gulf, anyone?), so there were plenty greasy/oily work clothes run through the 1962 Whirly. Hot water was rarely used, warm was the recipe of choice, but of course with a warm rinse. LOTS of suds-locks (with Tide, of course!) I don't recall a scum ring in the basket or on the agitator, although I'm sure there were deposits in the outer tub. We had that machine (LJA-3200) for 14½ years, replaced with the LDA-7800.
My dad ran a service station (Gulf, anyone?), so there were plenty greasy/oily work clothes run through the 1962 Whirly. Hot water was rarely used, warm was the recipe of choice, but of course with a warm rinse. LOTS of suds-locks (with Tide, of course!) I don't recall a scum ring in the basket or on the agitator, although I'm sure there were deposits in the outer tub. We had that machine (LJA-3200) for 14½ years, replaced with the LDA-7800.
Glen--
My parents had a charge account at Glass's Gulf for years. They were the gas station of choice for our family, and the service was excellent no matter which (Gulf station) one you went into to.
Those were the days.
Funny, most of the old Whirly/Kenmore's I remember had that "quirk" but my current one doesn't! The agitator on mine does collect the ring on the agitator-----but since the agitator is black it hardly shows-up-------unless one takes a paper towel or cloth and rubs it clean.
Oh well, no big deal. Part of the machine's personality.
The Tide you describe in use at the gas station----was that back in the days when Tide had phosphates? Just curious, as I notice the Viva I use is the best at cutting grease, and takes it with it----down the drain. I remember when Tide was like that.
My parents had a charge account at Glass's Gulf for years. They were the gas station of choice for our family, and the service was excellent no matter which (Gulf station) one you went into to.
Those were the days.
Funny, most of the old Whirly/Kenmore's I remember had that "quirk" but my current one doesn't! The agitator on mine does collect the ring on the agitator-----but since the agitator is black it hardly shows-up-------unless one takes a paper towel or cloth and rubs it clean.
Oh well, no big deal. Part of the machine's personality.
The Tide you describe in use at the gas station----was that back in the days when Tide had phosphates? Just curious, as I notice the Viva I use is the best at cutting grease, and takes it with it----down the drain. I remember when Tide was like that.
Tide
Well, Steve, dad had the station from 1959 (through 1984, 25 years? 27 years? 1989, 30 years? I don't recall now when he sold-out the business) so I'm sure it was phosphated back in the day. They did use Tide there for washing the service bay concrete floors and front lot. Bought it by the case, so we always had it at home also. Which is one of the reasons it was so hard to get mom to try different detergents (Salvo, Dash, All, Oxydol, Cold Power, etc.).
As many times as the LJA-3200 suds-locked, I don't remember it triggering the water level switch, so must not have been very often if it did. I know spin slowed down to a *crawl* in the worst blockages so maybe it didn't kick the accumulated water up high enough. I was quite surprised when the LDA-7800 arrived as it *rarely* suds-locked.
Well, Steve, dad had the station from 1959 (through 1984, 25 years? 27 years? 1989, 30 years? I don't recall now when he sold-out the business) so I'm sure it was phosphated back in the day. They did use Tide there for washing the service bay concrete floors and front lot. Bought it by the case, so we always had it at home also. Which is one of the reasons it was so hard to get mom to try different detergents (Salvo, Dash, All, Oxydol, Cold Power, etc.).
As many times as the LJA-3200 suds-locked, I don't remember it triggering the water level switch, so must not have been very often if it did. I know spin slowed down to a *crawl* in the worst blockages so maybe it didn't kick the accumulated water up high enough. I was quite surprised when the LDA-7800 arrived as it *rarely* suds-locked.
Steve & Glen -
Regarding suds locks in Whirlpool belt-drives.....I think a suds-lock re-trigger of the level switch depends on the setting in the level switch (lower levels being easier to re-trigger than high settings), but most importantly the condition of the fill-control hose on the earlier machines and the air dome in the later ones.
The rubber fill control hose that supplies air pressure to the level switch in the 60s machines could get clogged with lint, suds residue and minerals, thereby narrowing it like plaque in human arteries. It would then take less pressure and less water/suds sloshing around to trigger a partially loaded fill control hose than it would a new one.
The drawbacks with this hose were the reason behind Whirlpool going to the separate chamber shaped air dome. This too can get build-up in it, but it has less of an effect.
In your machine Steve, I'd be willing to bet that it's pristine condition at least partially explains it's behavior.
Personally, I seldom see a suds-lock in a belt-drive, and that's with 44 years experience using them. I believe that to be due to my mother's use of low sudsing detergents and mine as well, coupled with the large capacity machines that I use at times which have a monstrous tub drain hose as compared to the standard tub. Suds don't remain in the tub nearly as long with those large outlet hoses.
Gordon
Regarding suds locks in Whirlpool belt-drives.....I think a suds-lock re-trigger of the level switch depends on the setting in the level switch (lower levels being easier to re-trigger than high settings), but most importantly the condition of the fill-control hose on the earlier machines and the air dome in the later ones.
The rubber fill control hose that supplies air pressure to the level switch in the 60s machines could get clogged with lint, suds residue and minerals, thereby narrowing it like plaque in human arteries. It would then take less pressure and less water/suds sloshing around to trigger a partially loaded fill control hose than it would a new one.
The drawbacks with this hose were the reason behind Whirlpool going to the separate chamber shaped air dome. This too can get build-up in it, but it has less of an effect.
In your machine Steve, I'd be willing to bet that it's pristine condition at least partially explains it's behavior.
Personally, I seldom see a suds-lock in a belt-drive, and that's with 44 years experience using them. I believe that to be due to my mother's use of low sudsing detergents and mine as well, coupled with the large capacity machines that I use at times which have a monstrous tub drain hose as compared to the standard tub. Suds don't remain in the tub nearly as long with those large outlet hoses.
Gordon
bobbyderegis
Well-known member
Has anyone noticed how clear and suds free the rinse water is on a GE Filter-Flo? No matter how big of a suds cake in the wash, they always seem to rinse clear.
Bobby in Boston
Bobby in Boston
To see the difference in the spin vs. neutral drain machines, you only need to disassemble a Maytag and WP/KM machine at the same time. You won't need a scraper to remove any detergent/softener/filth residue in a Maytag, it likely won't have any at all. IMO, a washer that cannot keep itself clean isn't worth the metal (or plastic) it's made of, no matter how lenient Sears' credit terms were that accounted for most of their sales.
That being said, I still love the "personality" of the Kenmore/Whirlpool washers, in spite of, or maybe because of the silliness of their belt-driven madness!
That being said, I still love the "personality" of the Kenmore/Whirlpool washers, in spite of, or maybe because of the silliness of their belt-driven madness!
