Keymatic 3224

[chestermikeuk]

Wiring Loom

Great to see the insides mike and yes years of grime on those wires and all that color revealed. It has had a new timer and wiring loom update at some point. The original timer for this early production number was an AU TYPE, and had 2 wiring loom changes, yours is an AT Timer which is a 4th version timer with a 3rd version wiring loom, the book says this wiring loom is to be "Re-Routed down the LHS Rear Frame Member" so there we have it.

Am building a spreadsheet of our 3224 models showing production numbers, original timers & harnesses and what we have now if upgraded. !! All in all the 3224 series had 4 different timers as upgrades with 5 wiring loom upgrades as well.

Ian, I hadnt noticed the loom on yours , just found this info whilst searching for something else...interesting that both yours are doing the same cycling, I wonder if you have to start the water valves, heater, motor pump initially to cycle the timer, dunno thinking aloud. That bezel is bugging me cos all the first pics and advertising show the black on red fascia?? a mystery indeed !!

 

[ricky5050]

Oh dear

I'm out of ideas !! Sorry. How long have you let it sit ticking away ? It may be stuck mid cycle and a bit slow ?

Good luck

Richard

 

[mikeymatic]

Wiring loom

Mike - thanks for working that out - it would have taken me ages ( if at all ! ) I'll re-check the wiring tomorrow - my head is buzzing with wires & positions !

Let me know if you need any info. for your spreadsheet.

Richard - I let it run for about 30 secs. I'll give it another go tomorrow and run it for longer. I have a feeling it's something small preventing it from starting the programme.

Thanks for your messages guys.

Mike.

 

[ricky5050]

Just looking

Just looking at pictures it seems the time line has moved all be it back wards or through a full cycle the indicator line looks closer to start in video than in pic 1. I think from the sound it could be s stuck solenoid in the timer box. Perhaps you could open up and see if it needs freeing ? It could just be the camera picking up noise.

Good luck

Richard

 

[mikeymatic]

Timer

Thanks Richard.

I'll investigate inside the timer today or tomorrow.

I actually moved the timeline display ribbon along myself after the first pic.

Updates to follow

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[alanlondon]

Hi Mike, I've not had mine going with water in it now for over 25 years, but seem to remember the noise is similar to when it tumbles and pauses when it is heating the water (in a pause phase). As others have said, sounds probably like a solenoid sticking in the timer. What about disconnecting the heater first (so you don't accidentally turn it on) and then blow into the two pressure switches to fool the machine into thinking it has water in it? might make a different connection in the timer and free something? Failing that shine a torch into the key plate hole and check all the pins are down (mine are all down, a bit uneven though), perhaps one is stuck? Very pleased another one has been found. I have a door boot for mine, but would join forces to get some more made. Best of luck, let us know how you get on! Cheers, Alan

 

[keymatic3203]

The power of advertising

Well done on this one Mike, and as several members here have proved, it's surprising what is still out there if you pop an advert up.

Firstly sorry for the late reply, if only the computer was as reliable as my old hoover 1100, I'd have chipped in before.

I agree the control panel is a lovely blue and red contrast, I notice like mine there is no hoover badge on the door, so I wonder what date that comes from, it's black design like mikes, but the original one dark red one piece keyplate.

So onto my thoughts, I agree with Alans suggestions, try tripping the pressure stats etc. The keymatic timer works using a series of impulse paths, so in order to index on, a circuit needs to be completed, such as a pressure switch, thermostat, internal timer or one of the keyplate switches. So the timer sounds like its waiting for a circuit to be completed, so thats where Alans suggestions would be a place to start.

But also to add, on the side of the timer where the cable comes out is a little viewing window where a disc with a number rotates showing which timer increment the switch has reached, 0 being off, I think it's a 40 or 45 segment timer, so again this may give a clue as to where the machine stopped and a clue as to a fault.

Next idea, I did have a real rust bucket of a keymatic years ago, long gone now, but the timer just hummed, but the cable drive to the indicator tape looked rusty and very stiff, so I disconnected it and the timer whirred into life.

Finally, there isn't a solinoid in the timer, just one motor that both times and advances, there is a large resisitor that reduces the motor voltage whilst timing, frequency is the same so the rotation speed is constant. For rapid advance the full voltage is put across the motor, causing the rotor to slide laterally in its bearings against a spring, engaging the advance gearing. This is what we found with Ians timer, the one pictured above, a few drops of oil freed it up and it then advanced away beautifully. It does seem odd that a sleeve bearing is fine to rotate but not to slide, but I've seen it on Ians and a couple of others. The real hope is that your timer case is nut and bolted together rather than rivited.

So Thats my thoughts, hope they will be of some help, oh and of course I'll chip in to the door gasket fabrication consortium.

mathew

 

[mikeymatic]

Timer

Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the vital information that I need.

The timer case was luckily nut and bolted together so it's now apart.

The timer increment has stopped at number 21.

Mat -

Where would I put the drops of oil in ?

The machine had also sprung to life and the pump motor is working !

Mike.

 

[mikeymatic]

Back to Life !!

And the machine has fully sprung to life and advanced through to the end !!! The timer clicked past whatever it was sticking on.

Split seconds of action, as I would expect, by the pump turning on and the drum turning !!!!

Very happy !!!!

Thanks for all the tips so far.

Contemplating my next steps.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Happy Mikey !

 

[keymatic3203]

Great news Mike

the oil goes on the bearings of the shaded pole motor, I think the side your hand is on the photo, you'll see a small gear that travels out of the timer against a spring and meshes into a 2nd gear that indexes the timer. You'll see it,

So has it now returned to 0.

Enjoy your afternoon

Mathew

 

[mikeymatic]

Thanks

Yes Mat it's returned to 0.

I put it on spin dry, it advanced through, it tumbled, went on to spin smoothly for about 5 seconds then advanced again. It then only did short intermittent tumbles which it seems to struggle on.

I'm just so pleased it's come to life.

I'll put some oil in, and get the timer back together in the meantime.

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[ricky5050]

That's great

Great news. Mine clicks quickly through cycle until spin then spins but doesn't stop ! Whew the spin cycle is selected ! They all advance if you pull the card out to the stop. I'm on with the fill valves but will have to replace them with modern ones.

Looking forward to seeing it running

Richard

 

[supermaticjames]

Congratulations!

Hi Mike,

Although I congratulated you on other mediums I thought I should do so here as well so congratulations and welcome to the Keymatic club!

I really like the blue bezel and underneath that layer of dust and cobwebs is a machine in good condition that has benefited from being stored inside.

I'm so glad to see that you managed to get the timer to function again as that is one area of these machines that I have no experience with nor would I want to mess with as it's working fine.

I wish you the best of luck in getting her back to work. It's just amazing how many of these still survive and that advertising really does pay off.

Regards,

James

 

[mikeymatic]

Spin Dry

Here's a video of the Spin Dry programme.

Clicks through to spin for 15 secs after the 2nd rinse, then clicks through to Spin Dry at the end - although it doesn't spin for long. I've cut the video short - it tried to spin for approxiamtely 3mins - stopping and starting as shown I the video - before completing the programme.

Work in progress.

I'm really pleased it's come to life.

Mike.

http://https//youtu.be/rA5V4B9QbT0

 

[mikeymatic]

Richard / James

Richard -

Look forward to hearing about your updates.

James -

Thank you. I'm really pleased I've got the machine to work.

I've no experience with timers either - it's the invaluable information I've been given on here from those in the know, that has helped me get things going. It is brilliant that a machine left for 20 years can spring into life. There is a lot more work to be done, but it's been a great start.

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Hoover Keymatic 3224

Glad you got it working Mike, saves searching through the contact / cam fault pages ha ha work in progress indeed. The spin pulsing would appear to be the timer / cam / impulse contact not sequencing cleanly to the next contact / impulse position - check the little switches (up / down contacts ) in the card reader - also the drum stops pretty quickly, is the drum stiff ? or easy to spin by hand ?

Keep up the great work, fascinating washers !!

 

[mikeymatic]

Keymatic

The drum is a little stiff - moves OK by hand but I expect things need a bit greasing. Not sure what to do next.

I'll have a check of the card reader tomorrow.

Thanks for all the info.

Mike.

 

[ricky5050]

Great

That's great. It does seem to be struggling on the tumble and spin , I wonder if that's why it's stops and starts 3 times its perhaps the motor over heating etc. Does it feel warm ? The motor has a gearbox at one end it may need more grease. This may sound daft and obvious have you made sure the brake pad isn't touching the metal ring with the door open ? Not wanting to sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs !

Richard

 

[keymatic3203]

I agree

something isn't as free running as it might be, when coasting down from spin speed the drum is in effect free wheeling so shouldn't be coming to rest so abruptly, how does the drum seem when spun clockwise by hand, (with the brake off) it should be really free, as in effect the pulleys lock onto the drum shaft and rotate it. As Ricky has said it seems to strain accelerating, maybe cutting out the motor, Though in an over heat situation you wouldn't have expected it to reset so quickly, so yes maybe a timer contact.

As a guide from my memory, the drum should be free running enough that it barely slows down after the initial spin burst, before the final spin kicks back in.

But I add to what Richard said, it's difficult to know what may be obvious and what you may not know, so sorry if we are stating the obvious, I know you're obviously very hands on, we've all learnt from working together and asking questions, and its great to see a project I should more than be getting on with on my own machines making such great progress.

Mathew

 

[mikeymatic]

Every day is a school day !!

Yes the brake was on - hence the struggle to tumble and spin. I'm learning every day !

It's just done a Spin Dry, with the door shut, and spun for the whole 3 mins then free wheeled to a stop. Brilliant !!

Please feel free to state the obvious - as shown here it's a big learn for me.

Thanks again guys.

Mike.

 

[ricky5050]

.

Well sometimes it the simple things we miss. The good thing is it means there isn't much wrong with motor or pulleys etc. Your next challenge is the rubber. It's likely to need new pressure hoses and fill hoses from valves to the tall fill pipe. And the drain hose from tub to pump is a complicated thing sadly obsolete too. I'm going to post a product recommended here called glycerin we rubbed it all over the stiffened pipes on mine and it's made a huge difference already to its suppleness!

Once they break it's a complicated job to rebuild a new one !

And of course the door seal !!

I've got a good one but again would chip in

Wouldn't it be good to get all the keymatics together. It seems we may get one full wash out of them if one did each bit lol

Richard

 

[foraloysius]

That's why I sold my Keymatic to one of the German collectors. The cables in mine were rotten among other things. The innards of his Keymatic were rusted and almost gone. They now live on in one functioning machine.

 

[chestermikeuk]

hoover keymatic

Glad to see another problem solved Mike those clothes pegs take a lot of strain and the brake works on a tiny clearance. And great to see the inside of the timer I wonder given the low serial number if the timer wiring loom and keyplate have all benefitted from an upgrade ? As it appears all are later parts ?

Hello Louis, great to heard you keymatic lives on in another fab restoration project !!

 

[chestermikeuk]

hoover keymatic

Glad to see another problem solved Mike those clothes pegs take a lot of strain and the brake works on a tiny clearance. And great to see the inside of the timer I wonder given the low serial number if the timer wiring loom and keyplate have all benefitted from an upgrade ? As it appears all are later parts ?

Hello Louis, great to heard you keymatic lives on in another fab restoration project !!

 

[mikeymatic]

Door boot

So ... Does anyone have any thoughts about how we can get a door boot made ?

I've been scouring the UK but had no joy - just missed out on one from a shop in Edinburgh so there is the odd part out there.

Richard - been spraying the pipes with Son of a Gun. Yes there are a couple of fully perished ones that will need replacing.

 

[matchboxpaul]

Hi Mikey.

I am a late comer to the 3224 congratulatory party - am playing catch up with a number of threads.

Excellent that you have found a 3224 - amazing that these wonderful machines still surface every now and then and that this one boasts the early fascia colour. I have seen pictures of this shade before on continental machines, but never on a UK market machine.

Has been lovely to read of its slow resuscitation, though with the obvious frustration that you will be joining the ranks of those hunting for a door seal.
I really hope that one day a way round this issue will be found.

Keep us updated with the restoration.
All the best.
Paul

 

[mikeymatic]

Thanks

Thanks for the words Paul.

It's such a lovely machine. I've a lot of work to do. Small steps.

Mike.