Kitchenaid dishwasher - would appreciate help in dating it

[nuncle]

My wife and I recently purchased an old house that needs some renovation work. In the kitchen, there is a dishwasher that I'd like to date. Not talking marriage or kids yet though. Not surprisingly, when I called Kitchenaid, their databases didn't include it.

Wanted to see if I could call upon the collective experience of this msg board to hopefully learn about what I have on my hands. Haven't yet had the courage to see if/how well it works.

Kitchenaid Superba Energy Saver IV by Hobart
Model: KDS-39
ML 34338
Serial #: 201301353

Thanks,

 

[washmeup]

Kitchen Aid

You have a KDS-19 and it is a workhorse. My parents have the same machine and have had it since 1983. It still works better than anything new you can purchase today. It is also Hobart built, not Whirlpool.

 

[bigalsf]

Dishwasher Sink Combination

Hi, you actually have a KDS-39 Dishwasher Sink Combination. Hobart manufactured this set up as an easy way to replace an entire sink, cabinet, and dishwasher all at once...a solution to a quick remodeling need.

The dishwasher is the KDS-19. It is approximately 30-32 years old. If it still works it's a fairly good machine. Good luck!

 

[peteski50]

kds19!

yep we had the same model - they were only made for a short time - very durable machine!

 

[peteski50]

specs

they were made 1979 - 1980

 

[nuncle]

Wow! Thanks for all your help!

It hadn't occurred to me that the sink console and dishwasher would be a combo. I'm *relatively* handy. Are parts and such available for these units, if I wanted to tackle getting it up and running smoothly again myself?

 

[stevet]

KDS-19

This machine shares most of the same mechanical parts as the 18 and 20 series machines but unlike most of the Kitchenaids of those years, it did not have the hot air drying system. Hobart was ahead of the times with this energy saver design and since it was designed around very specific parameters in order for the drying to be effective, it turned out to be a less than stellar drying machine. Many people had great luck with it and most had to deal with water left on many of the dishes. Customer acceptance was not good and they returned to the hot air drying in the 20 series and never went back to the lack of the hot air drying. So,you will have to use a drying agent for best results.
You can still get good results if you want to use the fast cycle if you start it on that cycle and then switch it to the normal cycle so you get the benefit of the higher final rinse temps. The fast cycle skips some portions of the full cycle and IIRC, doesn't heat the final rinse.
Peter, chime in here, please...

Unfortunately, Whirlpool obsoleted most of the parts for the Hobart designed machines years ago, though a few parts are still sold by them. Your best parts sources would be any and all of us on this forum for parts and advice.

I have to say that when I had one as a working spare in my garage, it did a great washing job and was a first class machine especially once I converted it to use the hot air drying system. In fact, I think it even out dried my KDS18 that I had in the Kitchen at that time.

 

[peteski50]

kds19!

If you use jetdry you will get good drying results. Also they should have made these models with a SS tub and that would have helped in the drying. They did wash very well and you were always assured of hot water temp if your water heater was lowered.
Peter

 

[peteski50]

fast wash no dry cycle!

this was a good cycle if the dishes were lightly soiled and you didn't need them dry right away - it took 35 minutes.
Peter

 

[nuncle]

KDS-19 available for refurbishing or parts

Well, we've talked about it and perhaps unfortunately for us, the dishwasher doesn't fit into our plans.

But that doesn't mean our 'loss' shouldn't be someone else's gain. I'd really like for it to find a good home.

We're demo'ing the kitchen in the next few weeks. If any of you (or anyone else you know) is willing to pick up the tab for shipping, plus a small token for my time, it's yours/theirs.

Feel free to contact me off-board at the email address in my profile.

Thanks!
Bob

 

[combo52]

KDS-19

These actually dried better than the heated air machines do on the Energy Saver Air Dry setting, which is the only setting I ever use on any DW I own. The 19s had a more powerful blower so they did very well and I never use wetting agent.

 

Peter I would be interested to know why you feel that a much thinner SS tank would dry dishes better than a heaver porcelain coated steel tank does. But in any case the tank doesn't make any difference and I don't care if the tank drys completely as it is the dishes that I am taking out and putting away, the DW tank can stay a little damp for all I care, LOL.

 

Did anyone see the program on PBS about the environmental damage that coal mining is doing to many states here in the US? After seeing what harm we are doing to have cheap electricity the last thing I will ever waste electricity on is using the heat dry setting on a DW, why burn hundreds of pounds of coal every year just so the dishes are a little dryer when you first open the door after the cycle when they will be completely dry if you open the door and let them sit an hour. Keep in mind that the heated dry setting also destroys the racks and many other plastic parts of the DW faster.

 

[stevet]

What's the problem?

Bob, you never did mention what the actual problem is with your machine. Is it running okay or has it begun to show its age with rack deterioration or poor washing results? If it is mechanically sound it will outwash anything you could buy and do it faster. If it needs parts you cannot find, I am sure one of us here can help there from pumps to racks and even trim kits which I have many of so you can install stainless or custom wood panels on it and update its look!

 

[nuncle]

Ok, here's where I really start to show on the outside the yuppie that I probably am on the inside... I actually haven't yet tried out the d/w because I already know there's a leak in the waste drain from the kitchen in the crawlspace. Though, even if I were to sell/give it away, it wouldn't hurt the recipient to know how well it works.

Since we're planning on redo'ing the kitchen completely, our expectation is to go with all new appliances -- if nothing else, just make everything feel new and clean. Also, I know that another aspect in going new would be efficiency, in terms of water consumption, electrical usage and noise. Not to mention how sleek new models look; their relative limitation in serving their primary function aside.

Of course, now you've stirred all these romantic notions in my mind about keeping and reusing it.

Based on the picture of the interior below, my guess is that it is in good shape overall. And, you'll probably want to smack me for even thinking about not using it. Can I say that we're both Duke fans and the thought of washing our dishes on those Carolina blue racks sickens us?

Seriously though, maybe inspecting it and fixing whatever needs to be addressed (if anything) can save us a few dollars for the rest of the reno. I guess we can always go back and add the double-drawer delight of a Fisher-Paykel down the road.

I know that I can get sucked into things, and I was trying to avoid spending my time and energy on saving the d/w and instead spend it on the rest of our money pit.

Cool. You've presented me with a new dilemma

 

[stevet]

SO???

It does look pretty well cared for and looks to have many more years of use left in it.
If you have a leak in the waste line, is it just for the dishwasher or is it the waste line for the whole kitchen? If it is for the kitchen, how do you use the kitchen sink and why hasn't it been repaired? This should have been taken care of before you even thought of renovating the space!
(Does guilt work well on you?)
If it is from the dishwasher alone, then why not pipe the drain hose to the sink or disposer and use the machine?
I am sure you can appreciate that the dishwasher will use less water and do a much better job than hand washing your dishes in the sink.
True these older machine may use more water but they don't run for hours on end just to get your dishes clean.
I can attest to the fact that given the right detergent and using our tall tub Kitchenaid or my Kenmore spare in the garage, on the high heat setting, the newer machines will clean somewhat better than my older KDS18 or even my KDM21 but I don't have to worry about prerinsing and clogging up the anemic pumps used in today's machines. I could throw anything into my 21 series machines that I have had in the past and everything came out clean and with nearly nothing remaining in the filters on the bottom of the sump.
I think you should give the machine a try and like you said, you could always replace it with another machine. Personally, I would install 2 dw's in the kitchen instead of anybody's dishdrawers. They just are not versatile enough for my liking but that is up to you.
There are valid reasons why the majority of people on here prefer the vintage machines to what's out there today. Quality components equalled build quality and all the major machines were good, otherwise they would not have lasted.

 

[firedome]

IF

and only if, you do decide to part it out for whatever reason, I need a good lower rack and I think a 19 will fit in a 17 series.

 

[stevet]

perfect fit!

The lower rack will fit but remember that the 18 and up racks did not have the "center aisle" set up. The Aisle was moved to the left side and the dishware on the right faced towards the center. The top rack, minus the China Guard and washarm will fit perfectly too with nearly identical clearances as your original racks.
The problem with the racks is finding a large enough box to ship them in and the cost of shipping them! I have loads of lower racks that I could stand to get rid of if and when you are really desparate to replace yours.

 

[barcoboy]

nuncle, where are you located? I see it says Durham in your profile, but Durham where?

 

[bigalsf]

Keep It!!

This really is a great dishwasher, and much better overall than any modern machine out there. These dishwashers are serious work horses, really scrubbing your dishes clean. They only need 120 degree water to work properly, which will still save you energy & money. As stated before there are some issues with drying, but it's the same with almost every modern machine made today...none of them will dry everything bone dry without heat (and even then some brands still don't get everything dry). The secret to no heat drying is to crack open the door after the cycle has completed; this allows any remaining moisture to evaporate from the still warm dishware. Unless your kitchen is extraordinarily humid your dishes will be completely dry within an hour (except for concave bottom glassware and bowls)

Go on and give it a try.. as you stated you can always replace it later if you really hate it (which you won't!)

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[nuncle]

It does works, but we've bought a new one

I started it up the yesterday and it does work. There's a gasket around the sump in the bottom which has worked loose and is just sort of sitting there, but other than that, water seems to spray as it should.

However, as much as I'd like to tell all of you that we're going to keep it, it doesn't fit into our plans right now. We got a deal on a Miele that I couldn't pass up.

stevet, the leak is in one of the old cast iron pipes in the crawlspace. The house is a fixer-upper built in the 1920s, so there is a lot of rehabilitation planned for the entire house. We just closed on it a couple of weeks ago, so we don't live in it yet.

barcoboy, unfortunately, I'm not in the Durham that's probably closer to you (NH). We live in North Carolina.

bigalsf, thanks for the tips and concurring opinion on the d/w. We have actually always air-dried our dishes. In our current house, our dog has even learned the cadence of the cycle, so the other night, he alerted us to the fact about 15 sec before it beeped that it was about to end and the door needed to be opened.

If I can't find anyone nearby who can put it to good use, I'm willing to ship it -- hopefully that won't be cost prohibitive. Parting it out is an option, but it's in such relative good shape, I'd hate to carve it up and still be left with 60% of a carcass. Otherwise, it'll probably occupy a little space in my basement, and I might hook it up to do all the fun stuff, like my grilling utensils.

Thanks for all of your advice and for your conviction. And if there's anyone who's interested in it, let me know.