KitchenAid KD-12 merges with a KD-14, does that make it a KD-13???

[Unimatic1140]

So many of you have seen my custom made KD-12 KitchenAid dishwasher where I installed a window and interior lighting. I really like this dishwasher, its a good performer, there was really only one thing that I didn't like about it. The first 45 seconds of the cycle is a water flush that leaves the drain open and fills. Now that it has a window I could see the flush water washing some (sometimes all) of the detergent out of the detergent cup and down the drain. The detergent cup is a open stainless steel screen cup, not a timed dispenser.

So I decided to install the timed detergent dispenser from the KD-14 into the side of the machine and change the timer to the KD-14 cycle. The KD-12 cycle was Flush-Wash-Rinse-Rinse-Dry. Now the new cycle sequence is PreWash-Wash-Rinse-Rinse-Rinse-Dry. I had to install the dispenser in the side of the machine because the window is on the door and the window of course gets priority.

To install the dispenser I did the following:

First I cut a template and traced the dispenser opening in the location I wanted it. Then I drilled pilot holes for the jig saw blade to fit into.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Next I used my jigsaw and cut out the square. Then I used my Dremel tool to make the cut smooth and round out the edges.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Here is the dispenser installed from the outside. I sealed it using Sensor-Safe non-toxic silicone.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Here we are, all installed. It came out just beautiful...

 

[Unimatic1140]

Our lovely hand model Fred puts in the first detergent tab. Since its in the side of the machine it would be hard to fill it with powder, so I plan on using tabs in this machine. It dispenses just beautifully.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Here are the mechanicals below. I added an extra component as well, who can name that extra component and why I did it?????

 

[redcarpetdrew]

Tonight on Final Jeopardy...

I can see the heavy duty relay you put on but am having trouble on the why. It'd help being able to trace the wires on FrankenAid...

RCD

 

[redcarpetdrew]

Is it a contact relay wired into the timer to control the dispenser?

RCD

 

[Unimatic1140]

Is it a contact relay wired into the timer to control the dispenser?

Nope

 

[bobbins]

Well, looks like a new timer dial. (KD-14)

Did I win the prize?

Bob

 

[Unimatic1140]

Well, looks like a new timer dial. (KD-14)

Nope I said in my first post I changed the timer to a KD-14 timer so it would operate the dispenser. Drew was right about the electrical relay, but why???

 

[bobbins]

Oh yeah, you had to change it as the cycles are different.

I believe the new KD-14 timer cycles have the following phase:

- Pause
- Fill 1 min
- Pre-Rinse or Wash for 2 1/2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 1 min
- Wash 8 min (Detergent is released)
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 1 min
- 1st power Rinse 2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 2 min
- 2nd power Rinse 2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 2 min
- 3rd power Rinse 2 1/2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Timer Advance 1 min
- Final Drain 1/2 min
- Dry 18 min

Now the KD-12:

- Pause
- Warm-up (water fill when the drain valve is open) 1 1/2 min
- Fill 1 min
- Wash 8 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 1 min
- 1st power Rinse 3 1/2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Fill 2 min
- 2nd power Rinse 2 1/2 min
- Drain 1/2 min
- Timer Advance 1 min
- Final Drain 1/2 min
- Dry 22 1/2 min

The new timer has extra pre-rinse and an extra final rinse....

Now - Did I win the prize...

Bob

 

[bobbins]

I am lost about the electrical relay...does it have to do with the dispensing of detergent..

 

[volvoguy87]

Crazy?

Could the relay control a booster water heater?

Seems like a bit of trouble, but it's something I would do,
Dave

 

[bobbins]

I pulled out my schematics and I still can't figure this out....must be something really simple....

I recall a thread a while ago someone tried to install a separate electric pump on the KD-12 and in order to make the pump work, a rely had to be changed so the.....

I am curious, when you changed the timer...you must have had to re-wire it - I might be wrong, was there was a push button switch in the door plus interlock switch?

 

[alr2903]

I think you are right volvoguy, I am thinking, Robert has wired the heater to 220 during wash and rinse cycles. Maybe then no heat is needed to dry? Nice work Robert. Fred, well done. alr2903

 

[swestoyz]

Very cool Robert. Is the relay used to control the motor somehow? Maybe time-delayed?

Love the Kelvinator drain hose!

Ben

 

[peteski50]

KitchenAid!

Hi Robert,
This is such a awsome idea. I like the fact U have the dispenser with the window. They should have made them like this.
Peter

 

[a440]

Awesome Job Robert!

What a great idea! You need your own Mr. Wizard show I swear!
Didn't you put the relay for the motor when you first made your creation?
What I see new or odd to me is the "junction box" to the right of the fill valve. Is this an added feature.
Oh, and the fill valve. Is that the original valve? It looks new. Does it clank when it opens and closes?
Thanks for the pictures!
I bet you really love your "Super Pimped Hobart" Now! It will be a matter of time until you hook a laptop up to it with all kinds of programs I just know it!
Brent

 

[markk290]

Great job Robert. I followed the wires and it looks like you either added another relay for something or you added an end of cycle buzzer?

 

[rollermatic]

congrats on your "new kd-13"!!

i have always loved your window and lite you added, now it's even better with it's own little detergent dispensor and the brain of a kd-14!

you should have been working for hobart when they origionally designed all these classics! at least we could all see the action going on as i'm sure every model would have had a window! at least the suberbas!

so what is the purpose of the little device you added that sits next to the fill solonoid in the above pic? i'm gonna guess some type of timer motor delay to extend a wash. looking forward to the full explanation.

seeing this thread is making me eager to tear into the kd-14 i have now sitting in my living room! and i agree they are very good performers, i use my kd-12 almost everyday and love it!

beautiful dishwasher you have there! you should be proud!

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Guys, here is the answer:

This KD-12 is a gravity drain, I absoutely love gravity drain dishwashers. All three dishwashers in the kitchen are gravity drain. The KD-10 thru KD-12 gravity drain machines have a neutral drain meaning the pump is turned off during the drain cycle (at least one increment of it). I like the neutral drain because you can see all the water drop down the sump and down the drain and hear the big gurgle when its all gone in about six seconds. The KD-14 does not do that, it runs the pump during the entire drain cycle and the spray slowly comes to an end. So I put the relay in which is controlled by the drain solenoid circuit. When the drain solenoid is de-energized (to allow the machine to drain) the relay cuts the power to the motor and allows for a neutral drain. I could have simply wired the pump and drain solenoid in parallel together, but the problem is that if you open the door during any wash or rinse cycle the drain solenoid stays energized (so all the wash/rinse water doesn't all fall down the drain). If I did that it wouldn't cut the pump motor off when I opened the door which would be bad, I like my showers in the bathroom.

Everything else is original, btw.

 

[mickeyd]

Oh God, no......you didn't ;>

You could have had a dishwasher that works with the door open. That would be heaven for me, watching the water show and showering in the kitchen during clean-up. Oh well, to each, his own. Thanks for the breakfast treats, esp. the 6 second gurgling gravity drain. Love it. You need a gravity draining wringer washer, Man ;'D

 

[mickeyd]

Hey Robert, I missed the thread from 2008 you linked in the

There is a video half-way down the thread, friends, of the pink KD 13 or 26 (12+14) with the glass door.
It's quite a show. You can see everything. Had no idea the iron arm moved so fast. You'd only need a shower once a week after that.

Thanks, again

 

[redcarpetdrew]

I knew that...

I was just >playing< confused.. (Ducks and runs...)

RCD

 

[jetcone]

Can you

Imagine the cast iron spray arm on full blast when you open the door?? I think you should have left it that way then you could mop the floor all in one cleaning operation.

 

[may63]

Oh Dear

My apologies if I'm hijacking this thread a bit. I'm confused. I've been trying to figure out which Kitchenaid I grew up with. As I recall:

The outside basically looked like Robert's (except it had been painted brown).
The detergent dispenser was the little wire basket.
The cast iron washarm was gray.
The start switch started the fill with no purge and the motor off, then paused for about two seconds before launching into the wash.
The gravity drain always opened with the motor running.
The cycle was one wash with two rinses (then the forced air dry).

I had saved a rack wheel which Robert and I compared to his machine's. They were not a match. So we assumed I grew up with a KD-10 or KD-11, but I swear the motor ran during the gravity drains.

Thoughts?

 

[aldspinboy]

Very nice upgrade Robert, it is always amazing to see what you will do next.
I have to agree with Brent a computer controlled machine with TRUE infinite cycles like ---
Soak and spray cycle for a heavy duty load.
Is that possible for the future ?
Or a secret ...

Darren k.

 

[kcleveland205]

Timer switch for a KD-12

I have a KD-12 that the timer has gone out on. Any idea where I can get a replacement? I have used the unit daily for 9 years. Thanks
D Cleveland
Birmingham, AL

 

[tomturbomatic]

Robert, when the dispenser opens, does the tablet slide completely out or is it held in place for a while until it dissolves a bit? Does the tablet dissolve in the 8 minute wash? How much of it is supposed to be left behind to provide the rinse agent for spot-free drying?

The dispenser in my 14 allowed the detergent for the main wash to be washed out during the prewash, leaving a less than optimal dose for the main wash. I wonder how many of these KitchenAids gave less than stellar wash performance because of insufficient detergent in the main wash. My 14's dispenser has a little metal piece near the bottom of the prewash chamber. After many attempts to correct the washing away of the main wash detergent, I finally was able to slip a section of rubber hose over that metal bar to deflect the water and save the main wash detergent. Also, the gel formulas did not dissolve away as fast as the powders.