KitchenAid KDS 16

[driftless]

Hi,
While washing a load my KDS16 failed to drain and water overflowed/leaked from around the door. I opened the door, checked inside, closed the door and pressed "cancel/drain." The breaker tripped and, if I reset and try "cancel/drain" or "full cycle" it immediately trips. I checked inside and found no obstructions nor noticeable debris/clog. I disconnected the power wire from the drain solenoid and it still trips the breaker (leading me to believe that it is not this solenoid, correct?). I'm able to spin the motor (by sticking a knife into the vents just above the windings) and it seems to spin freely.

Any thoughts or advice on troubleshooting?

Thanks,
Jesse

 

[driftless]

I've since tore into it a bit further...

I removed and benched tested the drain valve; it is working well.
I sponged the water from the sump and removed the housing to gain access to the impeller. It spins freely with no obstruction.

The machine still immediately trips the breaker when activated.

I'm thinking bad motor or motor control circuit but if anyone has ideas and/or troubleshooting tips, let me know.

Thanks!
Jesse

 

[toploader55]

Have No Fear !!!

Stevet should appear !!!

Well, shortly or soon.

 

[stevet]

Well, this isnt an easy one

When a machine shorts out immediately, that is not a good sign and I have to tell you that you will not want to keep doing that to find out what is doing it because you can blow out the contacts on the timer or the program switch and then you will be at a complete loss. I killed off a KDS-19 timer that way and had to trash the machine.

I would take off the control panel first and check the door interlock switch at the top right corner of the machine. They were a failure point on the wm series which was a commercial clone of the 16 machine. All the power goes thru that switch and it may have failed.

You may want to remove the machine so you can work on it on its back and check all the connections under the machine and make sure nothing is pinching any wires or if another one has fallen off. Check the wires going to the tank thermostats. All the power also goes thru wire terminal 87 on the hi limit thermostat and it could have broken and shorted.

You may have to test everything one at a time to see if a specific component is doing it.

Does it trip as soon as you push the handle down or when you press a button? Maybe the timer motor is bad... See, you may have to disconnect everything and then add one component at a time to see what happens. Like I said, not an easy job, unless when you turn it on and it trips, you can see the arcing of the bad component.

Sorry I cannot be more specific but give it a try.

And Ed, you owe me a phone call!

 

[toploader55]

No...

You owe me the phone call. You were the one filling out the Service Report/ Invoive the last time I called. LOL.

I'll call you today when your in the middle of something.

 

[driftless]

thanks for the replies

It doesn't trip when the handle is moved to the run position. It trips when a button is pressed (the only two I tried were "Full Cycle" and "Cancel Drain").

Fairly sure I here a pop underneath (possibly by the motor) but can't pin-point it without tripping it repeatedly (which, as you mention, I'm trying to minimize).

Thanks again. I'll search a bit more and keep you posted.

 

[stevet]

Once more for good measure,..maybe

I would say that since the motor comes right on whenever a cycle button is pressed,it may be the motor or maybe the small wires that connect to the stationary part of the start switch on the motor. They are fine wires and have slip on connectors and one of them may have fallen off and is shorting out or the windings of the motor may be bad. Try disconnecting the black wire leading to the motor and see if that solves the problem. If so, you will have to find a new motor for it.They are out there and I would not be surprised if John Combo52 doesnt have one he is willing to part with.

 

[driftless]

troubleshooting update

Ok, I took the black wire off the motor and that eliminated the short (i.e. it tries to complete cycle normally but motor isconnected). Anything else I should consider/test/try before looking for a new motor?

Thanks again for the replies; very much appreciated

 

[driftless]

I found that Sears appears to sell a replacement motor... http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...65?pathTaken=partSearch&filterPart=&pop=flush

Any thoughts on if I should order or if there are other things I should check first?

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...65?pathTaken=partSearch&filterPart=&pop=flush

 

[stevet]

HOW HANDY ARE YOU?

Have you looked into the bottom area of the motor and checked the wires?
Do you think you can remove the bottom cover of the motor and check the wires going to the start switch? Like I said, sometimes they fall off and can short out. That would definetely save y6ou the cost of a motor. Also, There may be some guys onhere that would be able to sell you a spare motor from their stock of spares. You never know.

BTW, you can remove the bottom motor cover without removing the motor from the machine. It will just be easier if you pull the whole machine out and lay it on its back to get to the motor.

Keep us posted

 

[driftless]

the saga continues

After finding no visible shorts I removed the dishwasher from the counter, disassembled it, and bench-tested the motor. It is indeed the problem.

Does this one from Sears (in link below) appear to be the correct replacement? Is there anyone on here that has one that they would like to part with one?

Is there anything else I should be testing or replacing while I have the machine disassembled? Any re-assembly tips?

Thanks so much for your help! I absolutely loathe todays build-it-cheap-throw-it-away culture so I'm very pleased to have found this group and learn what a machine I ended up with.

Best,
Jesse

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...65?pathTaken=partSearch&filterPart=&pop=flush

 

[driftless]

I should add...

I should add that it looks like there was some hard water scale on and inside the motor. There were no visible leaks but I suspect a very minor or imtermittant leak; I'm thinking seals should be replaced, yes? Any thoughts, idea of availability, tips, etc. Thanks again!!!

 

[combo52]

Bad Motor On a KDS-16 DW

The motor likely failed because of a small amount of water leaking on and into it over time. You will diffidently have to fix the leak when replacing the motor, most likely leak is the shaft seal, and the other common leak on these is a tiny crack in the black plastic Bakelite drain pump housing. KA used the same motor on the 15-17 DWs, as far as I know this motor has been NLA for many years so I would be a little disbelieving about Sears having it without a picture, but I guess you can always send it back.