Kitchenaide/Hobart KD-11 Questions

[mattl]

I wired up my gifted KD-11 today, dumped a bucket of hot water in it and let it sit for 20-30 minutes.  Powered it up and it ran fine, with a couple of caveats.

 

The issue I'm having is that the drain solenoid is not operating as it should.  Unfortunately for me this is a gravity drain model.  I have my small collection in the basement and a gravity drain may prove to be problematic.  But that is an issue for later.  What I found is that there is a small trickle of water running out of the drain during use, not enough to drain the tub while it's washing but a small stream regardless.  What part do I need to correct this?  I'd guess it's just a  rubber washer or plug that has dried out. 

 

The bigger issue is that the drain solenoid seem to be powered all the time.  With the machine off if I plug it in I hear a snap and a constant hum,  even when the pilot light is out and the door is open.  Somehow it's not de-energizing. Second issue is that it is not opening when the drain cycle is operating.  Not sure if it's a timer issue or a drain solenoid issue.

 

the racks are in perfect shape, interior I'd give an 7  or 8 out of 10.  Someone tried to seal up around the dryer mechanism and there is yellowed silicone caulk all around the unit.  I did not try the water valve, I suppose I could hook a garden hose to it, has a 3/4" fitting, but cold water isn't what I want.  I dumped a bit of Cascade commercial in it and ran a cycle and was surprised to see the amount of suds it created, not sure if I put too much in or if the strong pump just causes detergent to foam up.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The drain solenoid was energized to stay shut so it will be powered all of the time. Even when my 14 is off, if I turn the timer dial, the solenoids clunk open and closed.

The drip during wash is water falling through the perforated top of the overflow pipe at the left front corner. A few dabs of silicone sealer over the top openings will stop that or you can use the silicone sealer to glue a checker or Tiddley wink on the top of the overflow cover and that will prevent the water from falling through, although with the short wash on the 11, I don't think you are losing that much water.

 

[mattl]

Thanks, did not think about the overflow drain. 

 

I did note that it was a good idea as any stuck valve issue would simply drain away.  But if the solenoid stays energized all the time would that not prevent the overflow from going down the drain?  If the unit is hooked to a P trap I don't see any value in keeping the drain closed when the unit is not running.

 

[rocknrollohio]

Drain

Pull the hose from the tub to the drain valve and check for debris or broken glass, look twice because sometimes you don’t notice the clear broken glass pieces

 

[stevet]

Water woes???

Matt,
The drain valve solenoid should NOT be energized when the machine is off. It will click on when you start the machine so that it will keep the water in the tub and yes, some will leak past the overflow while the pump is running. That overflow should not be blocked up in any way as it is the only protection the machine has against overfilling or a fill valve failure.
There is a hose from the bottom of the overflow fitting to below the sealing seat on the drain valve which will empty into the drain line as you have observed. If you decide to remove the hose, please be careful as it will be very brittle and may no longer be available.(I will check later and report back on that)
It would seem like there is a problem with the timer for the solenoid to stay closed so you may have to do some troubleshooting.

 

[combo52]

KD-11 Drain Solenoid Issues

Hi Matt, the drain solenoid should shut off at the end of the complete cycle and each time the machine needs to drain when it is running a cycle, however even if you open the door while the machine is washing the solenoid stays energized so the wash or rinse water will not run down the drain. You should check to see if the solenoid is just getting stuck or if it is actually energized when the DW is at the end of the cycle, that way you could tell if you have an electrical problem or a mechanical one.

 

Note to rocknroll, there is no hose between the drain valve and the pump on KD10s-KD14s, but it could have something caught in the drain valve seat area, more likely is that the drain valve seat area is just worn and not sealing well any longer.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I am sorry for giving incorrect information, but as long as my KDS14P is plugged in, even if the door is open and the timer dial is rotated through the cycle, the solenoids thunk & clunk. It operates perfectly and, while I did seal the openings at the top of the overflow cap, I left the ones on the sides open. It definitely made a difference in the amount of water that remained in the tub during the wash period.

 

[mattl]

Ok, to be clear if my machine is OFF and I plug it in, it's on a cheater cord, the drain valve instantly activates. The machine humms all the time indicating the drain solenoid is active. My cousin pulled it from an active kitchen, though the machine had not been used in years, decades perhaps. While the hum is not real loud I'm sure where it was installed it would have been noticed. I had looked at it several times over the years and never noticed this issue.

So, timer issue?

 

[stevet]

Hose and solenoid

The hose that goes from the overflow to the side of the drain valve is part number 063995 and lists for a whopping 78.55! If you break the old one, it is only a 90 degree rubber hose so any auto parts house should have something you can make do with.

Many years ago, when the UM commercial machines were very prevalent, we often ran into sticking drain solenoids. They would denergize but not drop down. 2 reasons were a broken or missing spring that went from the solenoid down to the lower frame, or the solenoid piston or amrature would stick due to residual magnetism or rust/dirt. Take a look at those possibilities. The part number is 87714-003-1 but is no longer available thru Hobart, nor are there any in the country. They can be purchased from Graingers once you match it up properly. I would even guess that there are people on here who have used regular laundry solenoids to replace the OEM item. Nothing unique about it except for maybe the way the wires were connected.

 

[mattl]

Well  think I solved my problem.  Weird really.  Today I decided to check and see if any stray wires where shorting something and pulled the cover off the wiring box, all looked well.  Sat there looking at the drain solenoid, and something struck me as very wrong.  There was a second somewhat rusty spring going from the actuator to the white neutral connection on the solenoid.  Really could not understand that placement.

 

Due to it's placement it was pulling the drain closed and would effectively run the L1 neutral connection to ground.  Technically they are the same point electrically, but still.  Pulled the white wire out of the connection and disconnected the spring.  The drain fell to the open position.  Plugged the machine in and voilà no hum!  Turned the timer knob and the drain actuated as it should!

 

It would appear that that spring had been on the machine a long time, it's slightly rusty - does anyone know where it goes?  There is a main spring on the solenoid this is a smaller one.

 

Solving this it would appear I have a fully functional machine.  I guess my next question is what are the chances of finding a pump assembly so I can easily place it in my basement.  The drain line I added for the Whirlpool DW and the Duets is 24" off the floor so this is not going to drain.  Depending on where I put it odds are i could put a P trap on it and run a secondary drain line along the floor into the floor drain, the other drain goes to the sewer properly.  I guess there is no real need for a P trap if I drain it to the floor drain, odds are it will get very little use I suspect.