"La Cage Aux Democrats"
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Interesting article, although a few of Rich's claims (e.g. "The gay civil rights movement has fewer obstacles in its path than did Dr. King’s Herculean mission to overthrow the singular legacy of slavery") are absolute nonsense. So blacks were enslaved for a few hundred years. Big whoop. Gay people have been stoned to death, boiled in oil and castrated for the last 3500 years, and even today we're routinely put to death in many parts of the world. Have you ever heard anyone accuse black people of being immoral, simply because they're black? Or point to a Bible or Koran to justify the murder of black people?
Jeff,
I think anyone who has been around the yahoo group or here in the last 10 years knows my position on gay rights.
That said, no,Jeff, honey, no.
I have very much seen exactly those things threatened towards Negroes and justified both on the basis of "protecting America" as well as based upon the Bible.
Yes, we are horribly discriminated against. That does not change the manner in which other humans have been attacked and hurt, oppressed, tortured, raped, beaten and murdered one bit.
The Nazis kept expanding their list of people to destroy. In the end we were only one of a very long list. Pure blooded Celts, Roma, Sinti, Jews, Gays, Negroes all fell under the same heading: Sub-human.
We won't win our battle for human status in the US through denying the Negroes their suffering and oppression. I don't understand how they can fail to see that this is a question of human rights, but for very many oppressed people in the US, it is not a question of human rights or civil rights - it is giving "privileged us" extra rights.
Wrong. Foolish. And beyond our means to change except by first acknowledging their cultural needs and history.
I feel very strongly that the way to end the injustice against us is not by denying ownership of their past and present feeling of injustice to other oppressed groups.
We wouldn't be where we are today without the feminists and Martin Luther King jr.
Jeff, you've been awfully nice to me here through the years and I appreciate it. Please don't feel I'm attacking you personally - just disagreeing on our perspectives.
I think anyone who has been around the yahoo group or here in the last 10 years knows my position on gay rights.
That said, no,Jeff, honey, no.
I have very much seen exactly those things threatened towards Negroes and justified both on the basis of "protecting America" as well as based upon the Bible.
Yes, we are horribly discriminated against. That does not change the manner in which other humans have been attacked and hurt, oppressed, tortured, raped, beaten and murdered one bit.
The Nazis kept expanding their list of people to destroy. In the end we were only one of a very long list. Pure blooded Celts, Roma, Sinti, Jews, Gays, Negroes all fell under the same heading: Sub-human.
We won't win our battle for human status in the US through denying the Negroes their suffering and oppression. I don't understand how they can fail to see that this is a question of human rights, but for very many oppressed people in the US, it is not a question of human rights or civil rights - it is giving "privileged us" extra rights.
Wrong. Foolish. And beyond our means to change except by first acknowledging their cultural needs and history.
I feel very strongly that the way to end the injustice against us is not by denying ownership of their past and present feeling of injustice to other oppressed groups.
We wouldn't be where we are today without the feminists and Martin Luther King jr.
Jeff, you've been awfully nice to me here through the years and I appreciate it. Please don't feel I'm attacking you personally - just disagreeing on our perspectives.
Jeff G and Panthera both telling part of the same truth
I agree with Panthera who seems to be saying that there is little point in two oppressed groups arguing about who has suffered more. On the other hand I think there are fundamental differences in the experience of gay men and women and racial groups. Racism is about exclusion of a group from full participation in the greater society while homophobia is about exclusion of the individual from within his or her society. The personal experience of this is subtly different. Both are unjust and terrible.
Peter
I agree with Panthera who seems to be saying that there is little point in two oppressed groups arguing about who has suffered more. On the other hand I think there are fundamental differences in the experience of gay men and women and racial groups. Racism is about exclusion of a group from full participation in the greater society while homophobia is about exclusion of the individual from within his or her society. The personal experience of this is subtly different. Both are unjust and terrible.
Peter
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