Laptop computers- Which ones are good and and which are bad?

[exploder3211]

Thanks Guys!

Here's what i got after doing some shopping by phone and such..

Office Depot lost a sale when i discoverd that not much online is the same as in the store-I wanted a Lenovo..But

I didn't even bother with Best Buy.. They suck.. I refuse to buy anything major there again after the fiasco with the router they sould me.. YOU can only return 3 things a year to them.. THATS IT!

Staples didn't have anything either i liked

Wal-Mart/Sams -Neither one has a Toshiba in stock-Plus with windows vista just out, most everything is sold out

Office Max-They got my busniess.. They shot me straight from the get go, and had what i wanted in stock.. All i had to do was come in and pay and walk out with my Toshiba Laptop.. Yeah!
With protection plan and some POS card reader (that will be headed back tommrow) it was $915... I plan to upgrade to 1 gig of ram.. Its only $50 or $60 from Toshiba..

Once i deleted Mcafee, i love it!

Below is another Linkie to Dell... It would have cost roughly $1300 for a similar unit from Dell... No way!

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configure.us.dell.com

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www.officemax.com

 

[exploder3211]

Here's a pic

 

[jasonl]

Yay

McAfee is CRAPOLA! Get Trend Micro PC-Cillan which blocks viruses, ads, spyware, phishing, and doesn't suck up alot of memory or cpu.

 

[exploder3211]

Thanks... Are there any good free virus programs out? I can not afford another monthly kinda thing?? Thanks

 

[rp2813]

Fry's, Trend Micro, Toshiba, Fujitsu

Fry's absolutely sucks. They have all this repackaging equipment to make something appear to be new in the box when it's actually a returned item. I bought a wireless router and couldn't get it to work. Called the support number and it turned out this router was such old inventory that there were tons of updates I'd have to download from the manufacturer's website to MAYBE get the thing to work. It went back. I don't bother with Fry's much anymore. It's always a zoo inside and outside and the sales force is the most smarmy bunch of people you'd ever not want to meet, and few if any have knowledge of the products they sell. They are there to make a commission and that's it.

I use Trend Micro. I tried to load some virtual networking software so I could work from home and Mc Afee wouldn't let me. I had to remove it. Symantec (Norton) is also super aggravating, their online support sends you in circles and gives no option to contact them. Trend gives you an 800 number for help.

I was shopping for a laptop over the summer and was going for a Toshiba but heard a computer guy on the radio raving about Futitsu, there was a good deal on one, so that's what I ended up with and so far I'm happy with it. I think you did fine with the Toshiba, though.

 

[runematic]

Sploder, I wish I would've seen this thread before you bought. I ABOSLUTELY HATE MY TOSHIBA SATELLITE P35-S611! It's flakey. I'll be typing & all of the sudden the cursor will go back to the beginning of the sentence or move back a word or two. Just enough to really pi$$ me off. It started this right out of the box. The dvd-rw drive quit working just a month after purchase. Toshiba had me reformat the hd after about 4 months to try to solve some other issues, so I lost a lot of crap. I couldn't back it up because the damn dvd drive was out again. I was really hoping to love the Toshiba. It has a 17" screen, 100gb hd, dvd-rw, a lot of RAM, etc. Customer service is obviously set up in India. Out of the 8 or 10 different customer srevice reps that I had to deal with, only 1 was ever helpful or easy to understand. The others were horrible. I paid close to $1800 two years ago. The damn thing came with only demo programs that expired after 30-90 days. For that amount of money, you'd think that you'd get some programs. Now to start the damn thing, you almost have to press the start button clear though the machine. Believe me, I am not hard on things, nor am I a novice computer user. I wish you well with the new computer. I hope that Toshiba worked out some of the bugs & crap that plagued (or should I say, still plagues) my computer. Like I said, I really wanted to like it. Sorry to rant on & on and sound so negative. I just hope they got their act together.

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reviews.cnet.com

 

[panthera]

Chad,

Whichever program you use, somebody will be bound to tell you it is a mistake.
The only thing everybody agrees on is that McAfee is even worse than most.
I have been using AntiVir Personal Edition Classic for several years now and it has served me well.
The free version is at: www.free-av.com
My dad uses the version you pay for once a year and is just as happy with his.
Never found a program which gets all the nasties, so also use the Microsoft Malware update once a month.
As long as we are on the topic, I use Dell laptops and have done for many years. Yes, their customer service is horrible. But their build quality is not bad and I have yet to have a serious problem with one.
Apple may build some good computers, but the arrogance of so many Apple users just turns me off. I seriously doubt they are worth the price and my friends in the publishing world have even worse headaches with repairs and in-warranty service than Dell users.
So enjoy yours and never mind what the rest of us say...you know how men are. The older the boy, the more expensive his toys and the ego involvement with cars and computers is just absurd.
(Sean, I didn't mean YOU, you are just a wonderful PC and I love you dearly. I meant those OTHER beige boxes out there, they aren't like you, at all. You are my one and only computer).

 

[cadman]

Not wanting to start a holy war, but...

In regards to Apple users, don't mistake their confidence for "arrogance".

That confidence comes from not having to worry about spyware, adware, virus scares, driver updates, MS patches, blue screens, hardware conflicts, etc. etc. An Apple person never has to think twice about questioning who an email is from or if an attachment can be opened safely. There's never a wonderment of why their system is bogging or if they need to run utilities to "clean" their system. Things just work, and they have the power to run full OS X apps as well as any Windows app their heart desires; simultaneously if they wish. This is not a question of marketshare or which camp "hackers" are targetting, but rather the hardware-software integration robustness. Of course nothing is perfect in this world, but some things get close!

 

[mistereric]

hrm...

"Apple may build some good computers, but the arrogance of so many Apple users just turns me off. I seriously doubt they are worth the price and my friends in the publishing world have even worse headaches with repairs and in-warranty service than Dell users."

First, I'd like to mention that I am a computer geek for a living, and also say that I have been an Apple Certified Desktop Tech for a number of years. I use Macintoshes 90% of the time, and they just work better with my brain.

That said, I also administer the service plans for the Dell computers we have in our fleet. I get to see both sides of things.

Today, computers are mostly the same inside. You can compare Apples to oranges, so to speak, because we are all wearing the same technological underpants.

From a service standpoint, I see about as many macs in for service as I do Dells. Computers break. No manufaturer, in my opinion, is doing a stellar job in reliability. These are complicated things, and its very hard to get them right.

From a durability standpoint, I have to say, the Apple computer will win hands down. A Toyota is durable, a Center-Dial Maytag is durable, and a Macintosh is durable. I put 700 Apple laptops in the hands of inner-city school children, and nearly as many Dells in another school, and the Apples come back year after year, where the Dells are damaged beyond repair. For a fleet, the Apples are worth servicing because we get a longer, more useful life out of them, with their guts hanging together longer than our Dells.

As far as cost, well, you saw the Dell Chad was looking at was over $1300. His Toshiba was a great deal at $950. For what its worth, the MacBook starts at $1099, so while its a bit more expensive, but you do get a nice little webcam built in, and the neat power cord that prevents you from dragging your lappy off the table when you trip in the cord. And you can run Windows all day long and not apologise for it, 100% natively, at full speed. And you can run the MacOs as well, and play with all the neat bundled toys, like the iLife suite, that come bundled, instead of McAffee, which is kinda no fun to play with.

I'm not trying to be arrogant. I honestly don't care what kindsa computers you all use. I think you should buy whatever computer you can afford, and whatever one makes sense to you and suits your needs, be it a Mac, a Dell, a Sony, a Toshiba, a Kaypro, or a Commodore 64.

The arrogance you detect form Mac users is misguided exuberance. When you really "get" it about the Mac, when you use one, and when it clicks for you, using the computer goes from being a chore and a means to and end, and instead it frees you. The computer fades into the backround, and you feel like you are just getting things done. There are very few snags, bumps, crashes, or intrusions into your train of thought.

Its hard not to be excited about that; its appealing to a lot of people. Thats why mac folks tend to get preachy and all... they simply can't understand why you would want to use anything else. Its as if you said "No thanks, no automatic for me, i'll just stick to doing laundry by beating my clothes on a rock down in the river." If you had a small minority of people telling you that one type of washing machines was soo much better than just about anything out there, wouldn't you be curious?

What it all comes down to is that if you are happy using what you have, use it. Who cares... life is too short. But if you are frustrated and you want an alternative, or you think that maybe there might be more to the whole computer thing than you are getting from the mainstream OS, then you should check out the alternative. Don't go assuming that something might not be as good as it is, because you don't know - the Mac wouldn't have hung around for 23 years in the face of Windows if there wasn't something to it.

Not meant to be a flame, just trying to help the windows folks understand where we are coming from. At this point, in real life, I would make a joke about Steve Jobs and his Magic Cool-Aide. And then say "Screw this, lets all go out for a beer."

 

[exploder3211]

Thanks.. From what i have read, Toshiba makes a really good product.. So far, knock on wood, it works well.. Mine has the Office Depot max care warranty so if it breaks 3 times for any reason, i get a new one. I got AVG anti virus, will see how that goes.. Thanks again.

 

[panthera]

I do most of my work on Macs...

so I understand their value. What bothers me - and is the reason why I stick to Linux and NT at home, is the arrogance of many Apple followers. Not the exuberance nor their pleasure in their often truly great design.
No, the "mine is better than yours" attitude coupled with the legendary unwillingness to learn the first thing about file sharing with the rest of the world. And the absurd pricing, at least here in Germany. For the same money, I can build a computer of equal quality, fit it with a supported Linux (heck, at the current Apple prices here in Munich, I can even do it with SUN) and have better, more reliable software on hardware of equal quality and aesthetics.
If you like Apple, great...you have reason to - but the PC bashing from so many Apple disciples sets my teeth so on edge, I just don't want to be part of that crowd.
I think maybe we should just drop this topic. I know where it usually ends up when folks start this discussion.

 

[revvinkevin]

Thank you cadman & mistereric for your comments!

I could not have said any better myself... Thanks!

Yes I am an Apple/Macintosh guy and have been for many years... I started with an Apple lle (talk about a dinasaur! LOL) and have slowly worked my way up over the years. I currently have the Mac Mini... and I love it! It's amazing they crammed so much into a such a small package! Also yesterday I made the move from a 19" CRT monitor by purchasing a new flat panel monitor, a ViewSonic 22" wide screen and I love this too!!

As for being arrogant or having misguided exuberance, yes I am and I do! But only because I never have to worry about viruses, I don't have any type of anti-virus sofware. I just don't need to worry about it as no one writes viruses for Macs because "they" could not do enough damage... no body likes them. Well... you know what I mean.

 

[hydralique]

Mistereric is right in that you should buy what you like.

I’ve had both Windows machines and a Mac. I still have the Mac (a Cube) and I really appreciate the engineering and industrial design inherent in it, especially the silent operation. I find Windows to be easier to use and more reliable, however, especially in the case of memory management and lack of crashes.

Even if I preferred the Mac I’d still stay with Windows due to the lack of software choices for the Mac. Last month I spent $2500 to upgrade some of my professional software, not because I wanted to but because my upgrade rights on a four-year old program will expire soon. That is a lot of money for me, but as part of the deal I get unlimited tech support. This support is contingent on having a platform and video card approved by the software manufacturer, who of course doesn’t test Mac video cards. Since the software isn’t written for a Mac, I’m sure Apple wouldn’t offer any tech support either. I make my living using this software and having some support when an issue arises is important.

In addition, I have another program for my laptop which lets me talk to the computer in my Volkswagen. It’s a very sophisticated program which duplicates the programs run by the diagnotic computers at VW-Audi dealerships, and is not just a generic error code reader. It has saved me a great deal of money and aggravation, and I prefer maintaining my own cars anyway. Once again, it is not available for the Mac, and the vendor will not give any support for people running Macs . . . a few people have had luck using emulation software but it can be glitchy, which is kind of scary when the program is capable of doing serious damage to a car if misused.

None of this is meant to flame anyone, but just illustrates where I find myself today with respect to Windows vs. Mac. I’m really glad Apple is still around as Microsoft needs some competition, but until the software choices are wider many of us will always default to Windows.

 

[panthera]

in all fairness

I have seen some RS-232 stuff run on the Intel macs running NT based Windows (XP SP2).
I know a few software developers here in Europe who say they can not afford to write for the MAC OS because of the limited market, the tendency of Apple to throw everything overboard with new OS releases (the strength and weakness of Apple from the very beginning) and the enormous unwillingness of Apple, at least over here, to cooperate with developers who dare to work for "the other side".
If you don't like Windows (I could list a few million reasons why one might not) then take a look at Linux. Also more stable than Mac OS, cheaper and definitely not from Mr. Bill.

 

[mistereric]

Interesting comments all around!

I wonder if there is a more mature Apple following stateside than there is in other countries. I know that the machines are more expensive in other countries, relative to the PC offerings. Here in the US, the price points compare very well with other computers, if you price them out on dell.com and apple.com, for instance.

I've also been under the impression that service and support are not up to the same standards as their US counterparts in many other countries.

I know a few people who've gone and purchased Apple hardware recently and never run the Mac OS... they use the machine for Windows 100%. Strange times for an old school Mac guy, like myself... but at the same time, the idea of someone saying hey, this Apple ~looks~ cool, costs the same, and runs Windows 100% natively, well, I think thats great. Apple needs the cash to develop (or buy) technologies that Microsoft can bring to the mass market, anyway.

Hydra - in your case, staying with PC iron makes complete sense. If I was making money on a computer, I would be very hesitant to change it. Apple's OS will never have the depth of applications that Microsoft has. As far as your laptop goes, well, I have a similar situation. I Geocache, and the software thats best suited for moving data between a computer and my GPSr is Windows based. It was agrivating to use the older PowerPC Macs, since you had to emulate Windows... but now I just switch my Intel based Mac to start up in Windows, and I'm all set. I love the flexibility.

Keven, in regards to Linux - Can you recommend a good, simple way for someone who might be interested in Linux to get started? I think Linux just doesn't get installed outside the pro community is because its harder to stumble into a computer store and buy Linux, and install it and Microsoft Office. Not saying its not possible, just that it seems to me that the process of getting it up and running, and having a warm and fuzzy experience scares people off.

 

[panthera]

Eric,

I think Ubuntu is the easiest introduction to a functional Linux available at the moment. The GUI was very intentionally based on Windows usability.
The fora are really friendly and newbies don't get reamed for asking, well - newbie - questions. Which is not true of most Linux sites.
Knoppix is another distribution which runs fast from CD (so does Ubuntu) so it is possible with both to try things out without making any changes. When you are ready, both have a stable, easy to use HD set up routine. Knoppix also supports WLAN stuff better than any other distribution I know.
But Knoppix has some interesting, 'it's not a bug, it's a feature' aspects which make me hesitate to recommend it to an inexperienced user. And their users are intolerant to the point of rudeness...any question which a newbie poses will be answered with "RTFM".
I know some Mac folks who like the Yellow Dog stuff, but don't know if that is even still around.
I've got Ubuntu running on a laptop with no problems...let's see, since July 2006 it's been going strong.
www.ubuntu.com for free ubuntu download or CDs at many locations
www.knopper.net for knoppix...German and English website
Some ubuntu distros have had Internet problems in the past with some US providers because they jumped the gun on some standards, but think that is all done now.
Hope that helps...but am sure others here have more experience and advice...
Oh, my dad swears by RedHat, but he is over 70 and has been working with UNIX forever.

 

[pturo]

They are all bad. I like my Gateway, has it's limitations. I wish for an ApplelMAC, much better for pictures, art, graphics, but many business programs are not compatible with Mac,and with our work systems, cannot use a lap remotely, must be a PC. Sad but true. Imagine not being able to use a Sony TV to get reception but Magnovox gets you in to see the super bowl on the same channel? It would be an outrage.

 

[hydralique]

Graphics . . .

Don't assume that graphics on a Windows machine are by nature inferior to a Mac! That just isn't the case; plenty of professionals in graphics-intensive industries use Windows for their work by choice.

What is true is that a low-end Mac will likely have better graphics than a low-end Windows machine. This is because the low-end Mac is more expensive. Apple has a total monopoly on their market since they won't license their operating system to anyone. This means that they have no direct competition within this system and so even their low-end stuff usually comes with decent graphics. Price competition in the Windows market is so tough that manufacturers low ball the graphics cards in budget systems with predictable results. The good side of this is not everybody needs good graphic capabilities and you can buy new Windows system for $600 if that's what you're looking for. Just don't expect it to equal the quality of an iMac that costs $1000.

If you want high quality graphics capability, avoid computers with "integrated video" or "shared video memory". These graphic cards borrow memory from the main RAM memory which slows the processing speed of the graphic system. A computer with 128 mb of discrete graphics memory is usually sufficient to give excellent performance for most uses.

Another key is matching the graphics card to your intended use. A lot of better cards, like the nVidia GeForce series, are primarily intended for gamers. This is great if you're a gamer. If you're not, then check into the more professional oriented cards like nVidia's Quadro FX and ATI's Fire GL.

 

[exploder3211]

I really like my Toshiba so far (knock on wood)... I just wish i could switch back to Windows XP as i am not fond of Windows Vista. It'll grow on me.

 

[panthera]

Better than, not as good as

I can't think of one single program in modern layout and publishing which is irreplaceable and limited to the Mac platform.
That said, Apple computers have class.
Just wish some of their "disciples" here in Europe would be a little more tolerant. It is not confidence, it is arrogance, at least over here.
And the folks who run Apple Germany are reason enough to never ever buy their products...I cross the border to buy my Apple stuff in the Netherlands rather than give those arrogant jerks even one Eurocent of my business. They don't honor warranty service worth a tinker's... anyway.
The NT family is more stable and Linux even more so...tho' things have gotten steadily better since Aqua.
Chad, may I ask what is bothering you about Vista?
I can't recall having had any big problems with it after RC1. I won't put any new OS into my production environment until it has been "beta-tested" by a few ten million users for at least two years...and I know that XP tests out faster running current apps....but the differences are so tiny as to be indistinguishable.
Maybe the problems are not Vista related?