Laptop computers- Which ones are good and and which are bad?

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Thank you cadman & mistereric for your comments!

I could not have said any better myself... Thanks!

Yes I am an Apple/Macintosh guy and have been for many years... I started with an Apple lle (talk about a dinasaur! LOL) and have slowly worked my way up over the years. I currently have the Mac Mini... and I love it! It's amazing they crammed so much into a such a small package! Also yesterday I made the move from a 19" CRT monitor by purchasing a new flat panel monitor, a ViewSonic 22" wide screen and I love this too!!

As for being arrogant or having misguided exuberance, yes I am and I do! But only because I never have to worry about viruses, I don't have any type of anti-virus sofware. I just don't need to worry about it as no one writes viruses for Macs because "they" could not do enough damage... no body likes them. Well... you know what I mean.
 
Mistereric is right in that you should buy what you like.

I’ve had both Windows machines and a Mac. I still have the Mac (a Cube) and I really appreciate the engineering and industrial design inherent in it, especially the silent operation. I find Windows to be easier to use and more reliable, however, especially in the case of memory management and lack of crashes.

Even if I preferred the Mac I’d still stay with Windows due to the lack of software choices for the Mac. Last month I spent $2500 to upgrade some of my professional software, not because I wanted to but because my upgrade rights on a four-year old program will expire soon. That is a lot of money for me, but as part of the deal I get unlimited tech support. This support is contingent on having a platform and video card approved by the software manufacturer, who of course doesn’t test Mac video cards. Since the software isn’t written for a Mac, I’m sure Apple wouldn’t offer any tech support either. I make my living using this software and having some support when an issue arises is important.

In addition, I have another program for my laptop which lets me talk to the computer in my Volkswagen. It’s a very sophisticated program which duplicates the programs run by the diagnotic computers at VW-Audi dealerships, and is not just a generic error code reader. It has saved me a great deal of money and aggravation, and I prefer maintaining my own cars anyway. Once again, it is not available for the Mac, and the vendor will not give any support for people running Macs . . . a few people have had luck using emulation software but it can be glitchy, which is kind of scary when the program is capable of doing serious damage to a car if misused.

None of this is meant to flame anyone, but just illustrates where I find myself today with respect to Windows vs. Mac. I’m really glad Apple is still around as Microsoft needs some competition, but until the software choices are wider many of us will always default to Windows.
 
in all fairness

I have seen some RS-232 stuff run on the Intel macs running NT based Windows (XP SP2).
I know a few software developers here in Europe who say they can not afford to write for the MAC OS because of the limited market, the tendency of Apple to throw everything overboard with new OS releases (the strength and weakness of Apple from the very beginning) and the enormous unwillingness of Apple, at least over here, to cooperate with developers who dare to work for "the other side".
If you don't like Windows (I could list a few million reasons why one might not) then take a look at Linux. Also more stable than Mac OS, cheaper and definitely not from Mr. Bill.
 
Interesting comments all around!

I wonder if there is a more mature Apple following stateside than there is in other countries. I know that the machines are more expensive in other countries, relative to the PC offerings. Here in the US, the price points compare very well with other computers, if you price them out on dell.com and apple.com, for instance.

I've also been under the impression that service and support are not up to the same standards as their US counterparts in many other countries.

I know a few people who've gone and purchased Apple hardware recently and never run the Mac OS... they use the machine for Windows 100%. Strange times for an old school Mac guy, like myself... but at the same time, the idea of someone saying hey, this Apple ~looks~ cool, costs the same, and runs Windows 100% natively, well, I think thats great. Apple needs the cash to develop (or buy) technologies that Microsoft can bring to the mass market, anyway.

Hydra - in your case, staying with PC iron makes complete sense. If I was making money on a computer, I would be very hesitant to change it. Apple's OS will never have the depth of applications that Microsoft has. As far as your laptop goes, well, I have a similar situation. I Geocache, and the software thats best suited for moving data between a computer and my GPSr is Windows based. It was agrivating to use the older PowerPC Macs, since you had to emulate Windows... but now I just switch my Intel based Mac to start up in Windows, and I'm all set. I love the flexibility.

Keven, in regards to Linux - Can you recommend a good, simple way for someone who might be interested in Linux to get started? I think Linux just doesn't get installed outside the pro community is because its harder to stumble into a computer store and buy Linux, and install it and Microsoft Office. Not saying its not possible, just that it seems to me that the process of getting it up and running, and having a warm and fuzzy experience scares people off.
 
Eric,

I think Ubuntu is the easiest introduction to a functional Linux available at the moment. The GUI was very intentionally based on Windows usability.
The fora are really friendly and newbies don't get reamed for asking, well - newbie - questions. Which is not true of most Linux sites.
Knoppix is another distribution which runs fast from CD (so does Ubuntu) so it is possible with both to try things out without making any changes. When you are ready, both have a stable, easy to use HD set up routine. Knoppix also supports WLAN stuff better than any other distribution I know.
But Knoppix has some interesting, 'it's not a bug, it's a feature' aspects which make me hesitate to recommend it to an inexperienced user. And their users are intolerant to the point of rudeness...any question which a newbie poses will be answered with "RTFM".
I know some Mac folks who like the Yellow Dog stuff, but don't know if that is even still around.
I've got Ubuntu running on a laptop with no problems...let's see, since July 2006 it's been going strong.
www.ubuntu.com for free ubuntu download or CDs at many locations
www.knopper.net for knoppix...German and English website
Some ubuntu distros have had Internet problems in the past with some US providers because they jumped the gun on some standards, but think that is all done now.
Hope that helps...but am sure others here have more experience and advice...
Oh, my dad swears by RedHat, but he is over 70 and has been working with UNIX forever.
 
They are all bad. I like my Gateway, has it's limitations. I wish for an ApplelMAC, much better for pictures, art, graphics, but many business programs are not compatible with Mac,and with our work systems, cannot use a lap remotely, must be a PC. Sad but true. Imagine not being able to use a Sony TV to get reception but Magnovox gets you in to see the super bowl on the same channel? It would be an outrage.
 
Graphics . . .

Don't assume that graphics on a Windows machine are by nature inferior to a Mac! That just isn't the case; plenty of professionals in graphics-intensive industries use Windows for their work by choice.

What is true is that a low-end Mac will likely have better graphics than a low-end Windows machine. This is because the low-end Mac is more expensive. Apple has a total monopoly on their market since they won't license their operating system to anyone. This means that they have no direct competition within this system and so even their low-end stuff usually comes with decent graphics. Price competition in the Windows market is so tough that manufacturers low ball the graphics cards in budget systems with predictable results. The good side of this is not everybody needs good graphic capabilities and you can buy new Windows system for $600 if that's what you're looking for. Just don't expect it to equal the quality of an iMac that costs $1000.

If you want high quality graphics capability, avoid computers with "integrated video" or "shared video memory". These graphic cards borrow memory from the main RAM memory which slows the processing speed of the graphic system. A computer with 128 mb of discrete graphics memory is usually sufficient to give excellent performance for most uses.

Another key is matching the graphics card to your intended use. A lot of better cards, like the nVidia GeForce series, are primarily intended for gamers. This is great if you're a gamer. If you're not, then check into the more professional oriented cards like nVidia's Quadro FX and ATI's Fire GL.
 
I really like my Toshiba so far (knock on wood)... I just wish i could switch back to Windows XP as i am not fond of Windows Vista. It'll grow on me.
 
Better than, not as good as

I can't think of one single program in modern layout and publishing which is irreplaceable and limited to the Mac platform.
That said, Apple computers have class.
Just wish some of their "disciples" here in Europe would be a little more tolerant. It is not confidence, it is arrogance, at least over here.
And the folks who run Apple Germany are reason enough to never ever buy their products...I cross the border to buy my Apple stuff in the Netherlands rather than give those arrogant jerks even one Eurocent of my business. They don't honor warranty service worth a tinker's... anyway.
The NT family is more stable and Linux even more so...tho' things have gotten steadily better since Aqua.
Chad, may I ask what is bothering you about Vista?
I can't recall having had any big problems with it after RC1. I won't put any new OS into my production environment until it has been "beta-tested" by a few ten million users for at least two years...and I know that XP tests out faster running current apps....but the differences are so tiny as to be indistinguishable.
Maybe the problems are not Vista related?
 
It seems slower than XP and all of these screwy pop up boxes and idiot proofing devices (like a pop up that basicly says "do you really wanna do this?") make me think that microsoft is trying to make there software more idiot proof
 
Chad,

It is slower...but the difference is too small to notice. It must be something else.
You can have the hand-holding go away...and, may I suggest:
*Defrag. Helps a lot.
*Pre-loading from flash disk...should speed things up considerably.
*Do you, perhaps, have two anti-virus programs running? Big no-no with NT based systems. Will slow things down to molasses in January...and ultimately crash things.
Hope this helps...
 
sorry, hit ready too soon

Chad, Rick Strahl wrote this solution which works:
...But the good news is that in the final, released version of Vista, it's quite easy to disable UAC:
1. Launch Control Panel
2. Type "UAC" in the search box at the upper-right hand corner of the window
3. The option to disable UAC is the first search result.
Then log off and log back on.

Just follow the instructions exactly.
 
My 6.592 cents worth

You can try AVG for free virus software. I have used it for almost 2 yrs now, with minimal problems. (it's free, remember)
I use to be a McAfee person until dealing with their customer service...was as bad as Dell's and Southwestern Bell's ISP service(AT&T). Google search AVG free virus.

We had another thread long ago, about the horrendous customer service with these companies. Please, don't get me started on that rant again.

I will NEVER buy another Dell product in my life!

Toshiba is the laptop I want to get, in the future.
 
hydralique:

Are you still using Mac OS 9 on that G4 Cube? If so, the memory management and anti-crash features would be drastically inferior to Mac OS X, which is apple's current OS.

Mac OS X 10.4 is extremely difficult to crash in my experience. I find Windows XP tends to be less stable when installed software starts to mess with the registry etc. You can end up having to reinstall the OS.

I use both platforms all the time and in general I find Mac OS X far more reliable than my XP installation.

Lack of viruses and more of an ability to seperate the OS from applications seems to make all the difference.

Mac OS 9, now retired several years, was pretty flakey though. There were days when it would crash if you sneezed.

Mac OS X, their current OS, shares nothing with OS 9, they're entirely different families of operating system. OS X = UNIX. (Based around BSD basically)
 
bsd

does not mean "blue screen of death".
Yeah, OS X in all its many incantations is more stable than OS9 ever was.
Of course, so is Polonium and most of the other tranuranium elements.
It just plain is not safe to think there are no viruses out their targeting MAC. There aren't as many as for Windows...but they are out there and, well, it only takes one. Especially since the typical MAC user is so, hmm, how to say this nicely..."limited" in their knowledge of even the first thing about data safety and how computers work...especially when they don't.
XP can be stable for quite a long time - certainly I have systems which run reliably for two or three days...
(That was a joke. But it is no joke that my OS/2 Warp Server only went down for kicking, fixpacs and power failures. Never once in five years did it crash or go sour on me.)
 
There is currently *one* mac os x virus :) and it's not even particularly easy to get nor is it particularly damaging.

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxleapa.html
It actually asks if you would like to install it. So, requires user intervention to put it on the system

Screenshot:

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021614-4006-99&tabid=2
Obviously complacency isn't advisable in any computing enviroment, but the reality is that you generally will not end up with a Mac crawling with viruses, keyloggers, worms, trojans etc. Windows suffers from a combination of being the most common OS out there, hence it's a bigger target but, also it's full of security flaws. It's never been particularly good from that perspective.

With any system the most important thing is to keep Software Update or Windows Update running and make sure that you're system's constantly uptodate. The majority of windows virus spreads are caused by unpatched systems with lots of security holes. Hopefully, Vista will have tided things up.
 
As for stability, this machine runs for weeks without a reboot. There's no reason to reboot it, even for most major system updates. (Very occasionally if it's something fundemental to the OS itself)

No application software installations require reboots.
 
The UK/Ireland versions of the apple ads

You know Apple re-made their commercials for the UK/Ireland market

Different actors

 
Thanks for sharing that. I think the UK Mac guy looks a little cleaner cut than the US version, who looks scruffy. I also liked the way it was written. I think most people here in the US wouldn't even know what tomfoolery is!

At the local mall we have an Apple Computer Company Store and over the Christmas holidays the guys who worked there were dressed in the same fashion as the US Mac guy in the commercials.
 
Yes MRX, my Cube has OS 9.xx

I’m not sure exactly which version as it was upgraded at some point. No doubt the newer OS 10 is much better, but then Windows has improved as well. My comparisons are based on when I was using the Cube at the office and had a Win 2000 Professional machine at home. I bought the Cube when I worked for an architect who was a real Mac junkie. We had one Windows machine in the office, and it was loaded with Autocad so I used it. Eventually the boss decided to become an all Mac office using other software and had me start using an iMac. I disliked the iMac, as it was crashy and didn’t even have a real delete key on the keyboard which made editing memos a pain, so I figured that if I was going to use a Mac I should just get a nice new one and start fresh. Some things I loved about the Cube were the total lack of noise, nice build quality, and beautiful industrial design. Actually using it was a different matter though. Some issues were:

-Cheap little one-button mouse, with no scroll wheel or pan button. This was soon replaced by a Microsoft three-button mouse . . . given that the Cube wasn’t a BOL computer Apple should have been embarrassed to supply such a low end (if beautiful) mouse.

-Fairly crashy nature, better than the iMac but much worse than Win 2000. And, when it crashed, you just had to give up and pull the plug because it almost never would do a forced shutdown and let you save data.

-The need for memory adjustments. It frequently needed some sort of adjustment to reserve certain amounts of the memory for certain programs, even though the total system memory met the software vendor’s requirements. I added more RAM and still had to do this.

-It had a habit of changing file names which just infuriated me. When I save a memo I try to include enough information in the name to allow me to recall what the context was. For instance “Huntington Woods Lot 2 Alan-Jeff memo 12-10-03" would be a memo for a project called Huntington Woods, Lot 2 is the particular house in the project, Alan and Jeff are the owners, and the date is self-explanatory. If instead of “Alan-Jeff” I put “Kamal” then I know that memo was to the project structural engineer who is named Kamal. I moved a bunch of files into the Cube and it renamed them something like “Huntington Wo###345X2". I never could figure out this code, but it meant that every memo in that project file started with the same title and the code numbers meant nothing to me. Instantly I lost any ability to differentiate out one memo from another without opening each one up . . . that was a real time waster if I needed to refer to a previous memo. Sometimes it would also re-alphabetize my files from Z to A instead of A to Z . . . very annoying.

-It had problems dealing with extensions. I found this out when I downloaded a bunch of project photos from my digital camera to the Cube and later copied some to the Windows machine to do some organizing and filing over the weekend. The Cube had stripped the .jpg extension off all the file names, which meant I had to manually re-name every single photo so they would display. Again, a real time waster, and I learned to be careful when sending files to clients or consultants as I often got emails back saying the files were corrupted and unreadable, when in reality they were just fine but had no extensions.

-Using software which isn’t industry standard. This isn’t the fault of the Cube, but made using it more troublesome. Most all CAD programs have conversion engines which will convert from their native file formats to and from the industry standards, which are Autodesk .dwg and .dxf formats. They kind of work, but you’ll lose lots of display and plotting information during the conversion. At the start of a project the drill was to get a survey from the surveyor, convert it to PowerCad (the Mac program in question), then spend a bunch of time resetting line types and line weights . . . once another employee and I spent a total of six hours to convert a complex survey and it still didn’t display correctly. After you have progressed through design development on the project then it is time to re-convert the plans and survey back into a .dwg to be sent to the civil and structural engineers. If you don’t check this on a Windows machine and make sure your conversion is good then you are likely to get a nasty email from the engineer saying that his draftsman is charging extra because the drawings are such a mess. Once you get the engineer’s drawings back then it is time to do another conversion, etc. In my case this was made worse by the use of PowerCad, which isn’t even a particularly good Mac program. Both Vectorworks and Archicad are way better, and available for Windows as well, which means that conversions to their native formats can be done in a Windows machine before it is all moved to the Mac. This does mean keeping a Windows machine in the office just to coordinate with the rest of the world, however.

Eventually I just got tired of dealing with the Cube and all the required work-arounds, and quit working full time for that boss. I still did consulting work for him for some time, and relegated the Cube to dealing exclusively with email from his office. In that capacity, it was totally happy and rarely crashed or misbehaved, but then again it was kind of pricey for an email machine.

The real irony of this is that the boss in question still is a Mac guy, but has gradually moved all his production work to Windows. He and his secretary still use Macs, but everyone else in the office uses Windows because it is more business oriented and he can make more money with less hassle that way.
 
You're talking about an OS that hasn't been supporte

Hydraulic,

All of the problems (bar the mouse) that you're describing are down to the legacy Mac OS 9 (and previous). Apple took a decision to completely abandon their entire operating system and move to a UNIX system instead. There's absolutely no comparision whatsoever between OS 9 and OS X. They litterally share no code and have no common history.

Apple withdrew support for Mac OS 9 in 2002 (5 years ago) Mac OS 9 dates from 1999 and the last ever version of that whole family of operating systems is 9.2.2 After that, it was consigned to history.

It also had a problem with dealing with long file names (hence a long named windows file would have had its name trunkated to fit into OS 9's mode of file naming)

The old Mac OS had reached the end of its useful life by 1999 and there was really no further development possibilities. It had very undeveloped multitasking and memory management and was really comparable to Windows 95/98/ME more than XP.

Apple then basically leapfrogged windows completely and adopted an entirely new OS. Basically, other than the apple badge on the machine, your G4 Cube and my Intel MacBook pro running OS X have nothing in common.

OS X is an extremely advanced and normally incrediably stable OS with a UNIX foundation.

If you still have the Cube, you really should get a copy of OS X for it. It'd run quite well, provided there's enough RAM.
 
Yup, still have the Cube . . .

I think I keep it around because I really love the design, although the keyboard fritzed several months ago so I need to buy another if I want to use it. I have a friend who has offered to install some version of OS 10 in it, but to be honest I have no real reason to spend time with it because my most important software doesn't work on it, and I have two Windows machines.

I'm sure OS 10 is a lot better than 9, but then Windows has moved forward as well . . . I really don't have much trouble with either XP or XP Pro. I would like to try Vista, but am going to wait for awhile so some of the inevitable bugs will be worked out.

FWIW, I think Apple messed up years ago when they stopped licensing their operating system to Olivetti and a couple of other companies. I understand them not wanting to be totally independent from the hardware because hardware/software coordination has always been an Apple strong point (remember how early USB worked great on Mac and sucked on Windows?), but better availability of Mac-based systems throughout the world and lower pricing would have increased their market share and thus made them more attractive to software companies.

As it is, Mac roped themselves into a small but dedicated market. I'm glad they're still around, and Linux too, as competition never hurt anyone, especially Microsoft!
 
Firstly, I would imagine that the 15 MILLION Macintosh users out there today would take offense (including a great number on this board who have wisely avoided this thread) to your comment Pantera that "the typical MAC user is so, hmm, how to say this nicely..."limited" in their knowledge of even the first thing about data safety and how computers work...especially when they don't." This is like saying all Maytag users are "slow" because they aren't ready for a machine with more than 1 dial.

Secondly, let's put to rest the theory that the main reason Macs are "secure" is because of their limited marketshare, especially considering the installation of Apple's pretty damn ingenius file servers by a number of Fortune 500 and government agencies in the last 2.5 years, which would be prime targets for media attention.

This point has been driven home by the many attempts by the worlds' great "hackers" to exploit the vulnerabilities in OS X not only for the shear pleasure of putting it in Apple's face, but for cash awards as well. Several were publicized last year for top honors in proving 'one's skills.' The results did not live up to the hype.

Similarly, this years "Month of Apple Bugs" project that was organized as a way to prove how easy it would be to crack OS X just came to a close. Rather than take a negative view on this, many Mac folks saw it as a benefit because it would lead to an even stronger OS. The only serious flaw that could be found was a quicktime exploit and Apple responded with a fix. Some media sources tried to inflate the hype and even the team engineers admit a lot of what they found fell short of doing any damage to a machine (3rd party app weaknesses, settings disabled by default on new machines that would need to be set on, etc.) We're talking a rock-solid, secure, easy to use, gorgeous interface.

Bottom line, the Mac users I know are pretty smart cookies and I bet the others on this list would agree. Personal preference is one thing, but let's keep the facts straight.
 
Cory,

I think there is a major difference between the professions in which Mac users frequently are active.
I work with translators/writers/academics.
With the exception of a department secretary and the professor who teaches applied data management (both women, both in their late 50s) every single MAC user among my colleagues and clients is truly devoted to their MAC...and absolutely uninterested in learning even the first thing about how they work...and what to do when they stop working.
No doubt a large part of this is do to the image of MAC here in Germany as being the "artistic" alternative to the dead, cold, business oriented PC. Not really a "computer" but a tool akin to brush, palatte and fountain pen.
If I worked with architects or engineers, I don't doubt they would know more about such things than I do...but since I don't...and since those of us who use Linux and Windows are constantly having to compensate for our colleagues inability and unwillingness to interface...well, sorry if I offended, but there is a reason why I spoke of arrogance and ignorance.
(I will never forget the colleague who was so upset that his iMAC didn't have del and bksp. When I suggested trying the "apple" key he was so grateful it was embarrasing...)
 
My Toshiba has lived in the front seat during my trip and it has been tossed around quite a bit.. Its not even scratched
 
Bhua!

"MAC user is so, hmm, how to say this nicely..."limited" in their knowledge of even the first thing about data safety and how computers work...especially when they don't. "

Thats AWESOME! Its totally true. My mom knows nothing about viruses and pop ups, nothing about data security other than to back up her pictures. Its great because she doesn't have to know anything about that stuff. Her computer just works. I can't imagine my mom learning about DLL files, registry editing, defragmentation, and all that rigamarole just to use computer. How awful would it be if she had to spend hours configuring devices just to connect a new printer, or download pictures from her camera? THANK GOD she doesn't have to learn all that.

Regular people shouldn't have to know how to beat a mass market operating system into submission to get their job done. If anything, the people who are MOST worried about computer security and are MOST concerned about having a computer that works right all the time, out of the box, well, they aren't using Microsoft products.

Hydralique; every single complaint you had about your Mac is justified. Just please keep in mind you were dealing with an OS that is now VERY dead. I think if you were to install Mac OS X on your cube, you would be pleasantly surprised. The Mac OS has matured literally light years ahead of the frustrating, crash prone experience you suffered through. If I was in your position, I would have been just as disgusted as you were. By the time 1999/2000 rolled around, the classic Mac OS was a heap of crap. I run the server version of OS X on my Cube, and it runs very nicely, its an awesome, rock solid, completely silent server. 332 days uptime since the last reboot, on a 7 year old computer. Can't beat that!
 

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