Last big purchase of 2018 - a new dishwasher

[revvinkevin]

 

 

My 18 year old Kitchenaid has worked well for many years and I really liked it.   But a few years ago the heating element stopped heating and having no filter, it would often leave "yibbles" on items placed in each corner of the upper rack OR in those corners of the cabinet.

 

A few days ago we stopped into the Sears outlet for no particular reason and walked through everything in the store "just because".  As I looked through all the DW's there, I saw this pretty TOL looking Bosch I liked.  After going home, thinking about it and checking some reviews, I went back the next morning with my truck to bring it home.  I installed it New Years Eve and ran the first load yesterday.  

 

It's an 800 series in "black stainless" with top controls and 3 racks, the upper most for utensils  

 

I ran the "auto" cycle (2h 9m) and I have to say my glasses really seemed to sparkle more than when washed in the KA!

 

Kevin

 

[stricklybojack]

.
We have the 500 series, love the quiet.
Here in San Diego using Finish is a must, otherwise mineral deposits cloud the glasses badly.
I use a 1 hour cycle (30 mins Express + 30 mins Extra Shine) most of the time, or just Express alone.
Mine is about 5 years old and doesn’t have the 1 hour option, I can see why they added it.

 

[revvinkevin]

Whisper quiet!

I'm amazed just how quiet this thing is! You can be standing directly in front of it, having a normal conversation while it's running and barely hear it! Printed right on the panel shows: 42 db. Wow.

I've opened the door a couple times while it's running and it looks like both spray arms are spraying at the same time, unlike some other brands that alternate the lower spray arm, then the upper, etc. I really like that is has a filter too, the KA didn't!

 

[leononmaui]

RevvinKevin

I have the same machine as you. I've had it for about 6 months. I LOVE it. This is the best dishwasher I've owned over many years. I have 2 dishwashers in my kitchen, and I'm replacing my other one with a Bosch also. Everything comes out spotless, the stainless steel pots look like new. Glasses shine. I love the upper 3rd rack for small bowls, large utensils, and small measuring cups for baking.
If it weren't for the red light on the floor, you'd never know it's on. Very low 37 decibels. I also only use Finish Quantum in both machines. I can go on and on. The best dishwasher out there. You'll enjoy more every day. Congratulations!

 

[revvinkevin]

45% off!

As I mentioned I bought this at the Sears Outlet and the best part is it was marked down 45%! I probably wouldn't have bought it w/o the discount. Of course the very small dent really shows in the photo, but I hardly notice it.

Yes as Leon mentioned there's a red light that shines on the floor as it's running, very cool and necessary, being it's SO quiet.

I will have to try all the cycles and see what works best for our needs. I don't pre-wash but I do lightly rinse. I'm curious if the 1 hr cycle will do the job got me. I will usually start it as I leave for work or just before going to bed, but with this on being SO quiet, I suppose it doesn't matter when I run it!

 

[rp2813]

Kevin and Leon, you know the three of us are going to face the AW tribunal for singing the praises of modern dishwashers, but what has been stated above is 100% correct.  As much as I wanted to enjoy my vintage dishwashers (a KDI-21, the infamous Thundering Thermador -- admittedly a poor performer, an ISE Classic Supreme), they all fell short when it came to glassware, and the requirement for phosphates was inconvenient.

 

I got my Miele from the ReStore and have never looked back.  It's the best performing dishwasher I've ever owned and it's entirely civilized in its quiet operation.  The only thing I had to get used to was stooping lower to load the bottom rack due to the tall tub design.   My machine even has the water softening system, but I don't bother to use it.  The door pops open at the end of the cycle to help with drying, which is very effective.

 

Modern dishwashers may take longer to do their jobs, but they're much more thorough and the results are absolutely worth the wait.  The only thing I can't do with my Miele is give it a seriously stacked and packed Bob-Load for the sport of it.  The spray isn't strong enough to reach through the layers like it does on an old-school machine.  That's a small price to pay, and I can still pack it full with a few things wedged in here or perched there, so I'm fine with that small compromise.

 

Congratulations Kevin!  Enjoy your new Bosch/souvenir of the (likely soon to be) late great Sears!

 

[spiralator60]

Question

Kevin,

Congratulations!

Does this model have a water softening system, specifically a salt reservoir?

 

[steved]

Hang me as well

Although I love my vintage dishwashers, our daily driver is a Bosch-sourced Frigidaire that I bought for a song. I have to take in consideration the hubby who wants an easily-loaded large capacity machine that produces clean results. Since we're not big fans of the stainless steel look, I painted mine with a metallic bronze color. I'm doing the SS front of our range to match in the spring when its warmer.

 

[henene4]

Bosch DW - The current benchmark, world wide

Here in the EU BSH DW are the dominating design.

They are simple and because they have uni-sized a lot of parts, they got really cgeap really quick.

Their EcoSilenceDrive is super efficent, super silent and allows for variable spray pressures.
Both the wash and the drain pump are "sensing". At least over here, at the begining of the cycle before filling the wash pump runs dry at 3 diferent speeds to calibrate. After filling during wetting, the machine monitors the pump rpm to look for the smallest sign of cavitating. More water is added as needed. The drain pump shuts of right after rraining is done, also sensing for the pump running dry.

These should all have a water diverter though. Not sure if the diverter does have a position that runs all the arms at once.

Did I mention that most cycles run with 4gal or less?
I think the highest theoreticly possible is at about 7gal, but I could be wrong.
And a typical "Auto" cycle consist of pre-wash, wash, filter flush and&#92or water softner regeneration, interim rinse, final rinse.
Over here, the most a BSH DW would ever use would be 4.75gal, and from what I can see, in the US the highest usage is 6.5gal (though they don't go quite as low as EU machines).

Quick question: Does your do the sensing at the begining of the cycle?

Here, the machine first drains for a couple of seconds. Then the wash pump starts up (barely audible) and ramps up step by step.
That whole process takes about one minute and only then it starts filling.

 

[eurekastar]

Congratulations on the discounted Bosch!

I had a Bosch 800 in my last house and thought it was great!  While two hours seems long, it is significantly shorter than the 4 1/2 hours for my current Kenmore Elite.  I can't wait for it to go on the fritz so I can get another Bosch!

 

[gansky1]

That's a really great machine, Kevin, you should be happy with that for a long time.

My mother moved from her house to an apartment 18 months ago and we replaced the BOL Whirlpool plastic-tub horror show with a TOL Bosch bought from some friends that remodeled with the newer black-stainless design. They had the Bosch for about a year and stored it for another year before I snagged it for mom, so it's about 4 years old now. Hers has a built-in water softener that really makes a huge difference in our hard water town.

You can see the water system on the left side of the tank and her fancy-schmancy display on the floor that tells remaining cycle time and current action. This is her second Bosch, is nearly silent and cleans amazingly well. I saw a Thermador version of this same unit at the Mart a this summer for $425 and it was all I could do to tear myself away from it.

 

[golittlesport]

Congrats on your new DW Kevin! Do you like having the top third rack?

 

[Chetlaham]

Congrats, I like the look and setup. Bosch makes good machines, that for sure.

 

[revvinkevin]

Thank you everyone for your comments, and confirming this is a good dishwasher, all very much appreciated!

...the AW tribunal for singing the praises of modern dishwashers... 

Too funny Ralph, but also so true, LOL. 

 

Darryl: no this one does not have the water softening system.  Mark (Markymark) is here visiting and was saying the models built for the US market do not have the integrated water softener.

 

Greg: Thank you!    Also, the one you bought for your mom is truly a TOL model and that floor display is awesome!

 

Rich: So far that top silverware rack is nice and I like the idea of it. It does take a little more time to load, but I'm OK with that.  I noticed the other racks have less height available due to this extra rack.  I can still get my large cutting board in the bottom rack, but it's not as easy as it was in the KA.

 

Mark & I were chatting about detergent and showed him this is what I use.  He looked it up to confirm, but said this one from Costco is top rated by Consumer Reports (for what it's worth).   I've had good results with it and expect better results with this new Bosch.

 

I am looking forward to running more loads of dishes to see how it does!

 

Kevin

 

 

[this post was last edited: 1/3/2019-16:10]

 

[revvinkevin]

 

 

Does anyone know how many washes / rinses each cycle has on this machine?   It would be nice to know if it does a pre-wash or not, so I can add detergent for that.

 

I would sit and listen to it, but I would get bored sitting there (with nothing to watch) for 2 hours, haha.

 

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

 

[henene4]

The Speed 60 should not, all others are sensor reading dependent.

 

[revvinkevin]

 

Thanks Henrik, but there should be a "basic" number of washes / rinses set I assume.

 

So this "sensor" controls or adds rinses until the water is clean, yes?

 

My (WP built) Kitchenaid for example did prewash-wash-rinse-rinse I believe (don't remember if there were 2 or 3 rinses).

 

 

  

 

[henene4]

Bosches more cancel phases rather then add them.
The DW begins the prewash, and if after 10 or so minutes the soil level isn't to high, it just adds the detergent, otherwise it drains and starts the next prewash repeating the sensing a few minutes later.
During the rinses, it tracks cloudiness, if a certain value of obstruction of the optical sensing beam somewhere in the water path is reached within a certain time, it immediatly drains and starts the next rinse.
Otherwise, at the end of that time period, it drains.

A fill is about 3-4l.

The lowest usage cycle is the is Normal at 8.8l. I suppose that would be wash-rinse-final rinse with lower pump rpm.
Next up would be at prewash-wash-rinse-final rinse.
Acording to usage from the manuals, I would guess that is Autos minimum layout.
Heavy should be prewash-prewash-wash-rinse-final rinse at about 19l, the additional pre-wash being prefered over another default post wash rinse to get temperatures for the wash up quickly.

Next it would probably add another post wash rinse, and that would be Normals, Heavys and Autos maximum layout.
Ecos max layout appears to be 5-fill cycle with probably one prewash only and more post wash rinses to reduce machine heating activity for drying.

For the US machines an additional prewash might be triggered by too low incomming water temperature as well.

Keep in mind that after the wash there should be a quick multi-stage filter flush using about 1l in every cycle.
Though they might kick that if sensed soil level is low enough; you never know today.

Here, the max I can think of off the top of my head is prewash-wash-rinse-rinse-final rinse on the theoretical max Auto cycle with up to 18l or so of usage.
Auto can go as low as 7l, but AFAIK that basicly only triggers with close to no load. Not sure if that is wash-final rinse or wash-rinse-final rinse with lower Eco like fills.

Our machines can now do partial water exchanges after a prewash.
Combined with lower spray pressures, that drove our Eco cycle down to 9,5l of water while still technicly doing prewash-wash-rinse-final rinse. That first prewash-wash uses about 3-4l, 1l is reserved for filter flushing, the 2 rinses are compketly dofferent baths AFAIK bith both using just verry little water.

We did have DW that re-used the final rinse water of a previous cycle for the next pre-wash.
That dropped usage to 6l on the BSH units. That is about 1.6gal for a full load.
These machines never were A+++ rated though I think as they had to use the hotter final rinse pattern of the A++ cycle design to ensure nothing could grow in that watet.
They have been eliminated from the lineup by now though as they added a lot of complexity for verry little everyday gain and people kimd of didn't like the idea.

 

[mattl]

3rd rack...

I have a KA with the third rack.  It's fine 95% of the time, the other 5% it goes away.  I have large dinner plates so i cannot drop my upper rack and the third rack will not allow my stemware to load properly - well the upper rack of my KA is less then optimum for stemware-- so the 3rd rack gets pulled. Other than that I use it often, not ever for silverware, just lids, plastic stuff and spatter screens.

 

I miss one aspect of my old upper mid line GE unit, the upper rack was great for all kinds of stemware, not so much on the KA.  None of my stuff sits well in the racks now.  The holidays saw lots of wine glasses, cordials and champaign flutes, less that optimum loading on all of those.  Do not know what KA was thinking.

 

Really a minor complaint, otherwise I LOVE this DW, never a dirty dish and I put some really baked on stuff in over the holidays and all came out spotless.