Launderess versus Miele W1070 The Continuing Saga

[launderess]

Did one load yesterday evening

Everything seems to work as it should, so that bit is sorted for now hopefully.

But motor sounds like a 747 taxing down runway.

Noticed this noise before several years ago (2012 IIRC), and even called Miele tech to have a look. Thought it might be rear bearings going or something. Tech said noise was normal and "fine", but I still have my doubts.

 

[eddy1210]

Very happy to hear the good news, your 1070 lives on!

 

[launderess]

Thanks Eddy!

Couldn't have done it without your help and rest of the lads.

Very much appreciated am sure...

While had front of machine open took a peek to see what there is inside cabinet.

With only that limited view things looked rather well; no signs of rust or water being slung at back of tub that could possibly indicate tub bearings going.

Was a mercy didn't actually purchase NOS timer motors thinking they were issue. Never occurred to one that mechanical timer/programmer could wear out. But there you are then....

Truth to tell don't use W1070 that often, preferring either of the AEG Lavamat machines for routine daily washing. Modern machines with better control of motor and tub movements show up some of faults in older machines like this Miele.

Like fact Lavamat washers spin after main wash and each rinse for "Normal Cottons/Linens". Think it makes a world of difference when it comes to rinse results.

For those unfamiliar with Miele W1065 and W1070 Eddy has some great videos up on his YT channel.







Among minor quibbles is fact these washers do not cope well with excess froth or even too much water at extraction. Where modern machines will stop or slow down spinning, pump out excess water or froth, then ramp things up again, not these Miele washers.

Machine will slow down spinning while continuing to pump, but if timer is set to advance, it will. This can often mean poor extraction or rinsing results.

Interesting thing is (you can see this in Eddy's videos), rather than sending all that excess froth or water cascading down glass, much of it seems to remain between tub or somewhere.

Owners manual for these washers suggests loading less than full capacity when doing loads of absorbent items like toweling and so forth.

In common with other older three dial European washers, these Miele machines offer a wide range of custom programs. Only thing they will lock out is doing Woolens at any temp above 40 degrees C. Otherwise pretty much sky is limit. Can do a "boil wash" of delicates. My AEG washers only allow two temp choices for "Delicates", 30 and 40 degrees C.

 

[launderess]

@stricklybojack

Have no doubts finding someone to rebuild or otherwise work on big Miele washer motor, this even if had to crate the thing up and send it off somewhere.

Issue is getting that cast iron behemoth of a motor out of washer, then putting it back.

In a marvel of German engineering Miele designed these washers to be totally serviced two main ways; top and front. Getting motor out of washer is majority of battle. Once that is done rest is comparatively simple

 

[launderess]

Maybe normal sounds?

Washer sounds like this when spinning....

 

[askolover]

My Asko has always sounded like a jet taking off since day one bought new. 

 

[henene4]

This machine should have an open bottom, right?

Be careful not to throw your back out.
Get a person to help.
Put some blankets down and tilt and lay on the left side.
Should make things way easier.

I think that the early Novotronic designs just were not easily converted to a different voltage AND frequency.

So they waited a while until they figured that out.

Same weirdness I always thought: There were never any home Novotronic machines with brushless motors.
On the other hand, there were professional machines with brushless motors, but always of the older Novotronic designs with push buttons, not the clocks ones.

 

[ozzie908]

@launderess

If memory serves the main wash motor is an induction type and the brushed motor does the spin, You can if your nimble enough swap out the brushes without removing the motor. Its not easy but can be done. You will know when they have worn down as it will continue to wash but when the timer says spin it will just come to a stop.

Reason they are such a size is its basically 2 motors in 1 its why they go on so long they were built to last in those days ....

Good luck and do let us know how it turns and big claps for sorting the timer yourself a big pat on the back for that one...xx

 

[launderess]

Thanks for suggestions and comments lads!

Think what will do first is get service plate off, then have a look at motor while room is dark and it is in spin. If see sparks, that is clear indication brushes need changing then will have to plot next move.

Otherwise since have two AEG washers, the Maytag wringer and Hoover TT am spoiled for choice washing machine wise. Truth to tell have let Big Bertha sit more unused since AEG Lavamat arrived, then when AEG/Electrolux toplader came she got even less use.

Truth to tell prefer way more modern European washers rinse over older machines. The Miele only does a short pulse spin after third rinse. One full but short follows after fourth before final rinse. Depending upon detergent used and other factors often feel things aren't rinsed very well.

You can see in video posted @R32 getting at motor from bottom seems far easier for either removal or changing brushes.

In any event cannot do anything until obtain extensions for my ratchet set or another with longer reach. So that's me for you.

@ozzie908

Yes, these older Miele washers were built to last. In theory they are like commercial units then and some still now. Virtually everything can be replaced or rebuilt and machine kept going thus indefinitely. There are tons of videos from Europe where DIY and hobbyists have done just that. Even rear bearing replacement is doable if one has proper tools and parts.

It just comes down to cost, best use of one's time, and sourcing of parts.

What toasts one's bread is thinking about how many W1070, W1065, W765 and W770 washers on this side of pond that were rubbished for want of simple repair.

Common thing is when tub stops moving in wash or rinse phase indicating brushes have gone. MieleUSA seems to just have told people "buy new" instead of just replacing the darned brushes.

That or MieleUSA gave customers a load of flannel about how techs do not change brushes or anything else to do with motor in field. Washer must be packed up, sent to Princeton, NJ workshops.....

It's same for rear bearings, suspension springs...

Newer Miele washers now have access panels on side and rear IIRC. Thus in theory swapping out shocks, motor brushes or even motor should be far easier.

 

[ozzie908]

@launderess

Its a sad state of affairs when you get informed by the local Miele engineer that if the motor or bearings on my W1 fail during the warranty period ( Another 3 years ) they will not repair the washer but send me a new one..... To say I was very disappointed with hearing that as I paid a small fortune for something that is not repairable by the manufacturer ??? WTH if they don't repair it then no one will and if after the warranty has expired and it dies then I will either have to remortgage the house and pay to get it repaired or replaced and if thats how they are going to go as far as looking after loyal customers then its going to have to be another brand of machine as won't pay out again for another Miele if no longer fixable. How sad they have fallen so far after all these years of being one of the best!!

Austin

 

[launderess]

Things can go either way I think.

A member (TopLoader?) had several issues with his new Miele washer. Finally what sounded like rear bearing failure occurred. MieleUSA being MieleUSA debated that fact with him, but never the less a tech was dispatched from Princeton, NJ to MA for sorting matter. Sure enough it was a rear bearing failure, this on a basically new washing machine.

Miele USA offered to ship washer down to Princeton, NJ, do repair work, then send washer back, all under warranty. Member stuck to his guns and insisted on a new washer period. His rationale was sound; machine had several issues prior to rear bearing failure, and that last bit shouldn't happen on new washing machines. Long story short, he got a new washer out of Miele USA.

At least here Miele is famous for fobbing customers off with giving a discount (not more than 30% or so) off a new appliance if they will give up their current model that is in need of repair. This often occurs with older washers and few other things. They tried that with me once to stop calling them out to fix my Miele W1070.

Don't know about elsewhere in world, but FWIU at least in USA Miele has no where near enough repair techs. They like everyone else is having a difficult time finding qualified people wanting to become repair techs as well.

One wonders if Miele simply considers it a faster and more effective remedy for certain repairs to just give a new appliance and be done. I mean if a customer can have say a new washer in less than a week, versus waiting two weeks or more to have broken one fixed...

 

[launderess]

Above being said, if rear bearings and or motor go out during warranty period/first three years, I'd want a new machine.

Those sort of bits are meant to last, especially on Miele washers. Unless owner is using washer in a commercial or industrial setting doing five, six or more loads per day five or six days per week, can't see how rear bearings or a motor would or should fail in short period of time.

 

[henene4]

The W1 is very much repairable.
It's just not worth it.

For a proper repair they'd have to take the machine to their shop, do the 2h repair and then return it.
Cost would be north of production cost of a new unit, so it's trashed.

I think the billing rate of an hour work from Miele service is in the range of 100€ or more.
Multiply that for the 2 man needed to transport it and work cost would be like 600€ on its own.
My shop buys mid-line Miele washers for not much more.

Actually, bearing exchange is much easier on the W1 than the a W770.

From what I have seen, the bearings on a W1 should be replaceable without removing the tub.
Could get tight pulling the bearing cross out, but possible.

For the older service door designs you have to pull the entire tub out which either involves a small crane or removing motor, counterweights and all the wiring and piping.

Saying: If back then the bearings would fail under warranty, they would have replaced the machine entirely as well.

 

[launderess]

Yes, that is how things go in USA, which is why Miele here does not do major work like rear bearing swaps, tub replacement, motor issues, etc... in homes. Everything has to go to Princeton, NJ where they have winches, cranes, etc...

This being said am always amazed with what hobbyists and DIY people do with Miele or other washers in Europe working in small spaces. Total braking down, repair, rebuilding.....

 

[brisnat81]

Miele replaced the bearings on my 3xxx series washer at the 5 year mark under their quality guarantee. The first time, they took it away, it was gone for two weeks and then it started leaking from the bearings within a few loads.

They took it away again and replaced the inner drum, rear backplate and the bearings again and 8 years later it has not had another problem. From the number of 3xxx machines I’ve found that the inner drum rubs on the boot, there seems to have been a design issue with their first 6.5kg machines that fitted in a standard 60x60cm cabinet.

 

[sudsmaster]

For some reason I've acquired a Miele collection over the years:

One 1918a washer
Three 1065 washers
Two dryers of same general vintage as the 1065

Of these, I know one of the 1065 washers work, as does the 1918a. I generally only use the 1918a, and then mostly for whites, like towels and washcloths. And I prefer it because of its higher spin speed, even though it "only" heats to 170F, vs the 205F of the 1065's. IMHO, 170F is more than enough with modern detergents.

Never tested the dryers or the second and third 1065 washers.

For a while these items were going for a song, or free, on Craigslist. Go figure.

 

[launderess]

Miele didn't sell huge numbers W700, W10XX washers in USA. In any event after nearly thirty years many were either by now scrapped (for want of repair usually I bet), sitting around spare in some basement or whatever, and or still being used long as owner can keep them going (Moi for instance).

Saw a W1065 few years ago on CL in SF, seller claimed it no longer would spin (common issue, just means new motor brushes are needed usually), and was practically giving unit away. Reached out but heard nothing back but crickets. Then advert mysteriously went missing from CL. Oh well...

There is also as with W19xx and even later model of Miele washers owners chuck these early units for something more modern, and or with greater capacity.

World has changed front loading washer wise in USA from back in 1980's when Miele along with Asko, Creda and Bosch introduced European h-axis washers to USA.

Much as one (obviously) has a soft spot for my W1070, the AEG Lavamat washers in my collection are in many ways superior.

MieleUSA is of no help to those wishing to keep older washers, dryers and other appliances going. Tech support and repair vary from wonderful to hopeless. In most instances for at least past fifteen or so years owners of older washers are pretty much told same thing "machine is old and obsolete, we don't have parts......" This and or finding a tech who knows his way around these old machines is becoming more and more rare.

Main thing of course with these older washers is that the main things likely to need repair (motor brushes, suspension springs, etc...) aren't jobs MieleUSA normally will do in homes. So washer must be packed up, sent to NJ, work done, then sent back. All of that Miele will charge for plus parts and labor. For all but the most loyal owner of an older Miele washer costs are just too dear for putting into an "old" washing machine.

On another note older ASKO units once were a common sight for resale, but they've pretty much dropped off as well. More recent offerings, yes those you can find.

Creda probably sold lowest amount of units, and that reflects in how rarely they pop-up.

 

[sudsmaster]

Yeah, at least one of my W1065's were nearly given away by new homeowners who didn't seem to appreciate them. Probably came with the home. I didn't ask, but figured they wanted something bigger, or more modern, or both.

 

[launderess]

This is exactly how my W1070 sounds when spinning. Guess it is normal and one just didn't notice....

 

[foraloysius]

Well, in the comments it says that the shock absorbers and the bearings are faulty. My W715 sounded like that too. It still kept working for a while, but when I had to move, I had it taken away.

 

[launderess]

Know shocks aren't bad on my washer as they were recently replaced. Yes, there was a thread about that, *LOL*

Rear bearings seem fine. There isn't any unusual play with tubs (have tried all the standard tests). It is certainly coming from motor area as noticed when had full front open recently to install new programmer/timer.

When had washer opened took a look at insides of back and sides of washer From what one could see things were clean as a whistle. No signs of rust or water being slung by bearing seals having gone or going.

Ages ago now when had that excellent independent Miele service man out on another matter, he said motor sounds were normal. Wanted to get him to look at the brushes, but the man wasn't taking that bait.

At this point one is going to let sleeping dogs lie as it were. Am in no mood to open up washer yet again, and certainly not ready to wrestle that huge heavy cast iron motor out of washer. Thing is only used very rarely, not even once per week on average as have the two AEG washers that prefer for everyday laundry.

 

[launderess]

It is to laugh!

Clearing out tons of old emails came across receipt from MieleUSA service from back in 2012. Had them out to look at my W1070 due to "whining" noise.

Tech noted. "Check unit and found motor was winning noise. Unit will not go into high speed. I was going to replace the brushes
but the motor connector and wires look very brittle. Will send to supervisor".

Several days later same tech returned to make further repairs and noted: " Check unit with wet clothing during spin cycle two time and unit is not making noise."

This was back in 2012, and even did a thread about Miele along with comment regarding "brittle wiring...".

So washer has been making this sound for sometime now. Interestingly have made a few trips to local laundromat (things too huge for any of my washers like coverlets), and they have a few SQ commercial washers that make same exact sort of noise when spinning. They've done so for years now and it doesn't seem as if owners are bothered about having someone in to fix.