LCD or LED? 720? 1080?

[sudsmaster]

I also haven't noticed a huge difference between regular DVD's and Blu-ray on my Vizio 42" LCD. I have the Panasonic Blu-ray player. So far I think I've only gotten one or two movies on Blu-ray: Avatar, Wizard of Oz, and I think maybe a Spiderman or Batman movie. I've not looked at "film mode" though. Not sure my set has it.

I record a number of shows on a standard DVD recorder. Often I watch them first on the HD broadcast. The DVD recordings are good, but not quite as sharp as the HD broadcast, which is what I would expect. I do notice a difference between different DVD recording speeds: 2 hr SP, 4 hr LP, and 6 hr EP. There's an 8 hr EP mode which is really poor and not worth the bother (unless one is using the recorder for video surveillance etc). Most stuff I record in SP, except for various major league sports which often run to 3 hrs or more. There's also a 1 hr XP mode but I haven't used that speed much if at all. I've also transferred a number of VHS tapes to DVD using the recorder, which helps to keep the material available for later playback, with quicker random searching etc. The 6 hr VHS tapes go to 6 hr EP DVD without much loss. With this I've been able to revisit some treasured shows I recorded a while back, and which are hard to find otherwise, such as Private Shultz (great Brit comedy/drama about the German effort to counterfeit the British pound during WWII).

My biggest gripe about 720 recordings is that often it requires resizing the picture on the monitor, whereas 1080 is the right size up front.

 

[passatdoc]

2005 Sylvania VCR/DVD recorder

I have a five year old VCR/DVD recorder combo unit from Sylvania (made I believe by Funai in Japan). It has an integrated tuner, so it can be set to record programs independently of the tv, like a vcr. It's in my bedroom, where the 26" LCD HDTV is connected directly to cable (no box); more precisely, cable to recorder and cable from recorder to tv (like a VCR). The tuner is not ATSC (digital), only NTSC (analog), but it's a moot point since the cable company converts everything so that analog devices still work without modification. A few companies (Toshiba, for one) still make similar units, updated with ATSC tuners. Most DVD-only recorders without VCR slots seem to be tuner-less and geared to people who wish to record the output of a DVR cable box or TV. I think Toshiba still makes a DVD-only recorder WITH an ATSC tuner, but since this is becoming a niche product, there is little competition for price or quality.

There are a number of reasons why people still buy/use this type of unit. First, of course, to convert VCRs into DVDs. One touch conversion is very simple. Second, for those who have kept store-bought VHS tapes that are copy-protected (won't convert to DVD), they can play these tapes on the VCR side of the unit. Finally, some people who like to record things do NOT like to use cable boxes, and this format allows one to record at will off the cable, without having to program or set up more than one device.

DVD-VCR combo player units (no recording) are still very common, mostly for people who have hung on to VHS tapes and wish to play both VHS and DVD out of a single unit, saving money and space. Some of the newer units even boast HDMI outputs (conceivably, the owner might be playing DVDs on an HDTV, and the best picture quality would be via HDMI).

Recordings on my unit approach store-bought DVD quality in 1 or 2 hour mode. I use 8 hour mode because most of what I record are older movies on TCM. I can put three or four on a single disk, and the quality is still decent on a big screen LCD tv. I make perhaps three or four recordings per week, so I wouldn't say it gets heavy use. Of course, audio is only in simple stereo, given that the signal comes in via coaxial cable without a converter box.

The only feature that's ever gone out on the unit is its ability to correct the time using a signal from the cable. This feature no longer works and I wonder if it has something to do with the switch from analog to digital (perhaps the cable company no longer sends the time synchronization signal in a manner the recorder can decode----obviously some sort of time signal still exists, since cable boxes calibrate the exact time from the cable). I can set the time using "manual" feature and the unit keeps good time, it tends to run one or two minutes fast per month, so I adjust the "creep" from time to time to ensure that my recordings start and stop at the intended times, and not two minutes fast.

I keep a database of my movies on a spreadsheet. Each disk has a number and I can sort the database by title (which shows me the correct disk number to pull) or by disk number. I have close to 1000 titles recorded over the past five years. Once a month, I pore through the TCM monthly schedule and look for films I've heard of but never seen. I make sure I don't already have it recorded, and if not I program the date/time into the recorder.

The only other drawback, and it's only a minor annoyance, is that the unit--due to its vintage--cannot use disks faster than 8X, and they must be DVD-R (DVD-minus) disks. DVD+R disks will not work. When I bought it in 2005, it could only record on 4X DVD-R disks, which at the time could still be found in stores, but they were becoming scarce.

Sylvania offered a free firmware update on a disk to upgrade the unit to accept 8X disks, so of course I installed the upgrade. In 2005, 8X disks were common in stores, but today about the only thing you see on the shelves are 16X disks, the only choice being DVD-R or DVD+R (and RW disks). As a result, I now have to order my disks in bulk (50 pack) from mail order media specialty stores like Super Media Store (see link). Super Media Store offers free shipping on orders over $25, so generally I'll buy a 50-pack for $26-30, which lasts a year or two, it comes right to me by mail, and I don't have to hunt in stores for a scarce product.

http://www.supermediastore.com/category/u/blank-recordable-dvd-r-disc-discs-media?filter=Speed=8X

 

[perc-o-prince]

Thanks everyone!

So far, it seems that plazma is getting the lion's share of yeas, but the heat could be an issue. Unfortunately, we don't have a 12' ceiling where the proposed set would go (aprox 7' actually) and in a corner.

So, if I'm reading correctly, LED would be the better choice over LCD. We won't have too much of a difference in off-center viewing angles, maybe 15 degrees either way tops, but it seems that the LED backlighting would be etter for overall quality.

Am I getting this right?

We still haven't decided whether or not to "upgrade," but if we come across a deal that we can't refuse, we want to be prepared to refuse it or not! It seems I run into open box deals at Best Buy shortly after we decide to get something. It's happened with 2 computers, an air conditioner, a microwave, and probably a couple of other things I've since forgotten about!

Chuck

 

[petek]

I highly doubt you'll be able to see any difference between an LED or LCD set unless you're Superman. I'd just get the right size at the right price on a 1080p set.
So much of all this techno stuff is just bafflegab LOL

 

[48bencix]

Over the air DVR

For those that can recieve over the air hi-def channels, the Channel Master DVR can provide a TiVO like experience without the monthly bill. It has two tuners so you can watch one channel and record another. You can't archive like with a DVD recorder, but it is in hi-def. The use of this item along with a decent Blu Ray player that gets netflix, and you may not want any cable channels. (Or sattelite)

Currently I am using my computer to play netflix streaming movies and send them to my tv with an hdmi cable. Pretty good picture considering I have 1.2 mg service from att. By the way I still have my Sony 34" Hi-Def widescreen CRT (Picture Tube) tv. Still a better picture than plasma or lcd, however not as large. Yes it does weigh 200 lbs.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-k6FWs8j8Nxw/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html

 

[petek]

Over the air

How far away can you pick up over the air digital broadcasts? Back in the pre cable era we got 3-4 Detroit channels clearly from 60 miles away. Do you think it would reach that far and it doesn't need a clear "line of sight" does it?

 

[mattl]

Pete, with a decent antenna you'll get Detroit. I'm about 60 miles NNW of Detroit and get all the stations. Ch 20 is iffy sometimes but it only has crap on so I don't care. I use it with my Directv setup so I can record. The Detroit station's quality beat the Flint stations hands down.

 

[48bencix]

antenna in attic

Here in Sacramento almost all of the stations are broadcasting from one location. Or at least one direction from my house. I think they are about 12 miles away. I have an antenna in my attic, so the signal does penetrate that structure. There are some trees in the way too. When I installed the antenna, that was my only source of hi-def, lately I got a hi-def service from Dish network. But when I put the antenna in I opted for a UHF only which means channel 14 and above. Even though your set may say "3" it could be broadcasted by channel 35. So originally all of the channels were UHF because the old analog channels were still being powered. After the changeover, actually right before it, channel 6 decided to use 9 and 10 decided to use 10. So right now I can't get those two stations until I get the antenna that picks up VHF hi at least.

I do get some interruptions occassionally. It would be better to have an outdoor antenna, and line of sight is the best. With the proper antenna you may get signals even farther. I believe all currently available HDTV's have a built in tuner. A few years ago most did not. I got mine about 5 years ago and made sure it had a tuner, because I didn't want to change to the HD service with the dish. At this point Dish offers HD for free, if you sign up for two years service. They do charge for the basic service and the DVR service, which you absolutely want.

 

[perc-o-prince]

I highly doubt you'll be able to see any difference betw

I also saw, "-i expect the backlight ccfl tubes to last around 5yrs before needing replacement but i do not know how long they are supposed to last. LEDs last for decades,but they can dim a little with long term usage"

That's where I'm leaning toward LED. It's more of a durability factor. Sure, plasma would be great, but what's the heat generation really like? "High," like having a toaster oven on? "Normal," same as a CRT?

Were it not for the heat factor, we'd probably go for plasma.

Chuck

 

[DADoES]

 
I have not found the heat output to be a problem thus far in 8 years of plasma use. You are correct in surmising that it's akin to a CRT.

 

[passatdoc]

Where I live, rooftop antennae are illegal (unless grandfathered in from decades ago) and don't work well anyway. Dishes are allowed if mounted on side of house below roof line. So everyone is still either with cable, a dish company, or an alternative like ATT (offering DSL + phone + cable channels in one bundle; after intro discounts wear off, their service costs about the same as Cox cable plus their DSL is way slower than Cox internet). Our terrain is too hilly for over the air reception. In the central and northern areas of OC, reception is better, but in the south it's non-existent due to terrain. I have a rooftop-style FM antenna in my attic, just for radio reception on my stereo receiver, and even that only pulls in five or six decent radio stations.

I agree with Petek: get the size you want at a price you can afford. I can't see any difference between LED and LCD at the store. I can't even see any difference between regular DVD (with 1080 upconversion) and Blu Ray when played on a LCD HDTV.

 

[lordkenmore]

I suppose if I were buying LCD, the longer life of LED LCD vs standard LCD would be a selling point. But I wonder if it really makes much difference in the real world. Mass market electronics aren't exactly built to last these days, and I'm sure that as the thing ages, there are plenty of problems that can crop up. Once something goes wrong out of warranty, most people will scrap & replace, regardless of backlight life. Repairs are expensive, parts may not be available in 5 years, and there is the question of "once one major thing has gone wrong, what are the chances of another major thing going wrong soon?"

If I were buying a flatscreen set, I think my 1st preference would be plasma, based on all I've heard over the years. Apparently, LCD is getting better...but it seems like plasma is still considered the best.

That said, I still have a CRT set, and I suppose I'll probably run it into the earth. And quite likely replace it with another used CRT set, which will get run into the earth.

 

[3beltwesty]

Own both small LCD and LED/lcd types

The LED type lcd often cost more, are thinner, weight less, use less power.

There are so many models available and new variants that one has a headache. At Sams Club Saturday had about 4 + dozen models, from 160 to 3300 bucks.

Both units of mine are bought this year, both have *FAR* better front ends than a digital converter box if you are one of the few like me who still use an antenna.

Programs "over the air" here are mostly 480 if old reruns. The typical HD program is 720 here, 1080 is rare. The Saints game yesterday was at 720, some Miss public broadcast is at 1080 on one subchannel and the same program on 480 on sister subchannel.

I got a 26" vizio M261VP at Sams for 288 bucks Saturday; backlite LED type, with WiFi802.11n , wired internet, 1080p, refresh is only 60Hz

There was a LCD unit they had there for 398 that was way larger that was tempting too.

The whole market seems to be changing so quick that there is no rational way to buy a TV and expect to not have one better in short order that costs far less.

Here I am going to wait before I buy a bigger unit

 

[3beltwesty]

Are there really any Plazma TV's anyway?

While getting tires at Sam's and spending 2 hours looking at TV's, I cannot recall *IF* I actually saw a plasma TV.

I basically looked at sub 800 buck units and sub 46" units and do not remember any saying Plasma.

In all the crowd of folks and TV's, I just saw LCD versus LED a million times! Usually 42" I thought was the rough starting point for a plasma TV. Panasonic makes a 37" plasma.

In all the 4 to 5 dozen TV's I looked at Saturday plasma might as well been a 6 volt car or space food sticks, never recall seeing any; since I focused on smaller ones.

 

[cfz2882]

plasma TVs

Does seem that plasmas are being phased out;wandering around
the stores looking at gift ideas,and thinking of this thread,
i looked over the TVs:earlier this summer at wal mart and
karls there were several plasmas at each store-today walmart
had only one plasma;a sanyo.
looking at the "led"TVs vs CCFL backlit LCD,i could not see
much difference..
I suspect stores make a higher markup on the "LED"tv and are
really pushing those...
besides the sanyo LCD i got earlier this year,i have two other
DD TVs;an '81 19"RCA(garage workroom)and a 1983 RCA 19"
(bedroom)-don't mind watching those old CRT TVs at all,they
still work great.

 

[mattl]

Plasma sales are about equal to LCD/LED sets when compared with similar sizes. Plasma is only available in 42" and up. LCD/LED are more expensive and have a higher markup so they are pushed more.

 

[sudsmaster]

Recently there was a column in the local paper about plasma TV vs LCD's. From what I remember:

1) There is more profit in LCD's, so that's what salesmen push.

2) Modern plasmas don't burn in.

3) Modern plasmas don't use appreciably more energy.

4) LED LCD's simply use LED lights instead of fluorescent lights to backlight the screen. The quality of the picture may be better but plasma really gives the best picture, along with better response for fast moving images, as in sports.

5) The price of plasma sets is about the same as for LED's.

 

[runematic]

I have a factory refub LCD that I bought from one of my distributors. The hd programs look fantastic. BUT.....

I decided to upgrade an older technology 56" rear projection HDTV that I've had for awhile. So, I sold it and all the other tv's I had laying around. Amazon had an AMAZING special over thanksgiving for a Mitsubishi 73" DLP projection 3d ready bohemoth. It was being blown out for $1199. Since it is 3d ready, I bought the glasses kit for it right away as well. I cannot get over the quality of the hd picture, and hd 3d is incredible. Unfortunately, there really isn't much in the way of 3d programming right now. Espn has a few select events and Comcast showed a 3d hockey game the other night. That game blew me away. The depth and clarity is absolutely amazing. But, I wouldn't buy a tv because it was 3d. I happened to buy this tv for the size & price. 3d was a bonus. I realize that not everyone can utilize a 73" tv, but as they say, bigger is better. The tv is extremely light (about 90lbs), but it barely fit down my basement steps. I am glad I don't deliver these for a living.

 

[sudsmaster]

Another option are the projector TV's. These require (I assume) a standard movie screen for best viewing - and like the rear projection TV's, they probably work best in a darkened room. I've seen HD versions for between $1000 and $2000, and the prices seem to be coming down regularly. Not that I'm prepared to get one - the wiring through the ceiling would be a major project (plaster and lathe in the living room, on the walls, and some sort of plaster/cement board in the ceiling).

 

[supersuds]

DLP

DLP TVs are wonderful. I would get one except they seem to come only in larger screen sizes and my living room is not that big.