Hello everybody. When did lg first start manufacturing dishwashers? When did we start seeing them in the states? Why do these dishwashers sound weak? Why do the pumps turn on and off when they start the wash action? Why is there no high temp wash and heated dry option? I'd like to know. Thanks. P.S. I have read consumer complaints that say that they take forever and don't clean.
lg dishwashers
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user 3941
Well-known member
I have no idea about the history of their dishwashers so i can't comment on that. But after reading the manual on their base model, most of their cycles the standard wash temp is what "heated wash" would be on other brands. My Frigidaire, for example heats the water to a minimum of 120 degrees if heated wash is NOT selected and 140 degrees if it is. LG recommends a minimum of 120 degrees from the hot water supply. Apparently they just heat the water anyway...except on a couple of the shorter cycles. I attached a cycle chart.
As far as the pumps turing on and off, from my experience it's probably from either using a smaller size motor and the pause allows it to cool, and the fact that most new dishwashers use less water so there probably isn't enough water to run both upper and lower sprays arms together and be effective. That's how my Frigidaire works too. However, it cleans beautifully. I rarely have a problem with leftover soil.
Mine does have a heated dry but a lot of the newer models do not..they have extended drying...which LG does too, to save energy. I have no idea how that works.
From the reviews I read, most were positive. There will be negative reviews on ANY product. So make sure you read all of them and not just the ones that say what you want them to say. People are dumb and I find these reviews useless in most cases.
As far as the pumps turing on and off, from my experience it's probably from either using a smaller size motor and the pause allows it to cool, and the fact that most new dishwashers use less water so there probably isn't enough water to run both upper and lower sprays arms together and be effective. That's how my Frigidaire works too. However, it cleans beautifully. I rarely have a problem with leftover soil.
Mine does have a heated dry but a lot of the newer models do not..they have extended drying...which LG does too, to save energy. I have no idea how that works.
From the reviews I read, most were positive. There will be negative reviews on ANY product. So make sure you read all of them and not just the ones that say what you want them to say. People are dumb and I find these reviews useless in most cases.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I can't speak for the LG
But my Kitchenaid dishwasher (Whirlpool sourced) has frequent stops when the wash is first beginning, and then a few times during the wash cycle. this is when it is sensing the soil level and temp. This may be why the LG makes frequents stops, but I am just guessing.
But my Kitchenaid dishwasher (Whirlpool sourced) has frequent stops when the wash is first beginning, and then a few times during the wash cycle. this is when it is sensing the soil level and temp. This may be why the LG makes frequents stops, but I am just guessing.
consumer complaints
As a side note, I have read many consumer complaints about all brands. Some reason, the lg dishwashers sound different. Some sound like the older whirlpool horizontal dual pump style, while the newer ones sound more like electronic pumps.
As a side note, I have read many consumer complaints about all brands. Some reason, the lg dishwashers sound different. Some sound like the older whirlpool horizontal dual pump style, while the newer ones sound more like electronic pumps.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
One thing you will see online.
You will read more complaints, as people are more likely to complain about something, than praise it.
Many of the complaints are user error. The newer machines are not as powerful and are certainly not your Mother's Hurricane in a box.
You have to be careful not to nest bowls so the water can get to all surfaces.
Make sure the water is hot by purging the lines so the machine has a good start.
Use a good quality, and ample detergent for the soil level.
Choose an appropriate cycle for the soil level.
Here is an example, though I am not saying I am always right; this is just an example of varied results.
My aunt, God love her, has the exact model and make machine that I have. This is where the simularities end.
I use a good quality detergent usually either Cascade Platinum, or Finish Quantum vs She usually buys the cheapest, sometimes outdated product on the shelves.
I do not Prewash vs. She washes the dishes in the sink then places the clean dishes in the dishwasher.
I choose either the normal or heavy cycle, which are sensor cycles, and choose a heated option and/or heated wash or sani rinse vs She uses the shortest cycle (Light soil), which would be appropriate with her prewashing except. . she never chooses any options.
I use care in loading so that the water is able to reach all surfaces vs She piles dishes upon themselves to save having to run more loads.
I use Finish Jet Dry vs She does not.
Results:
I rarely take a dish out of the machine that is not spotless vs. She always complains that the dishes are dirty with redeposits in the glasses, spotty and she has to dry them by hand.
She would complain and blame the machine online. I would not as I see the problem as user error.
You will read more complaints, as people are more likely to complain about something, than praise it.
Many of the complaints are user error. The newer machines are not as powerful and are certainly not your Mother's Hurricane in a box.
You have to be careful not to nest bowls so the water can get to all surfaces.
Make sure the water is hot by purging the lines so the machine has a good start.
Use a good quality, and ample detergent for the soil level.
Choose an appropriate cycle for the soil level.
Here is an example, though I am not saying I am always right; this is just an example of varied results.
My aunt, God love her, has the exact model and make machine that I have. This is where the simularities end.
I use a good quality detergent usually either Cascade Platinum, or Finish Quantum vs She usually buys the cheapest, sometimes outdated product on the shelves.
I do not Prewash vs. She washes the dishes in the sink then places the clean dishes in the dishwasher.
I choose either the normal or heavy cycle, which are sensor cycles, and choose a heated option and/or heated wash or sani rinse vs She uses the shortest cycle (Light soil), which would be appropriate with her prewashing except. . she never chooses any options.
I use care in loading so that the water is able to reach all surfaces vs She piles dishes upon themselves to save having to run more loads.
I use Finish Jet Dry vs She does not.
Results:
I rarely take a dish out of the machine that is not spotless vs. She always complains that the dishes are dirty with redeposits in the glasses, spotty and she has to dry them by hand.
She would complain and blame the machine online. I would not as I see the problem as user error.
kb0nes
Well-known member
I have read/heard consumer complaints...
There is a serious issue with basing all your experience of anything based on reviews you have read on the Internet. You just don't get a clear picture of what is really going on out there.
It is human nature to write negative reviews when a person perceives there is a problem, but it is comparatively less common to write a glowing review for something that works well. Yes I realize that positive reviews exist, I'm only saying that there is a disproportionate percentage slanted towards the negative.
Secondly when reading such reviews, both positive and negative, we have near zero idea what the writers experience is. Perhaps the problems are user induced (see also the "stinky washer" syndrome). Any washer is likely awesome if it is the first one a person has ever used etc.
Without knowing the percentages of machines that are out there working just fine for people, you have no idea how much weight those negative reviews deserve.
We read reviews all the time about some of the early front load machines and how horrible they are. How does one explain users here in this group that has had them for 10-15 years and they love them? Clearly the reviews don't tell the whole story.
Had the Internet existed in the past, you can bet that machines back then would have had negative reviews too. People experiencing problems with things and complaining about it is hardly a new concept. The Internet just makes is WAY easier to see it all.
Machines today are built lighter and with more plastic and electronics. It is possible that their life spans will be reduced as a result. It is far more likely that they will be judged as "flimsy or poorly built" just based on a persons perceived ideals. Electronics are the same way, folks are scared of them because they don't understand them. In today's cost cut world, I'd wager that the mechanical timers made today would be expensive and not as long lived as vintage ones also. Plus you loose the wonderful advantages that electronics can bring. In the end the concept of designing the "perfect" machine that will last forever is ludicrous. It could never sell due to cost and the average consumer is going to replace the appliance far sooner then need be replaced anyhow.
There is a serious issue with basing all your experience of anything based on reviews you have read on the Internet. You just don't get a clear picture of what is really going on out there.
It is human nature to write negative reviews when a person perceives there is a problem, but it is comparatively less common to write a glowing review for something that works well. Yes I realize that positive reviews exist, I'm only saying that there is a disproportionate percentage slanted towards the negative.
Secondly when reading such reviews, both positive and negative, we have near zero idea what the writers experience is. Perhaps the problems are user induced (see also the "stinky washer" syndrome). Any washer is likely awesome if it is the first one a person has ever used etc.
Without knowing the percentages of machines that are out there working just fine for people, you have no idea how much weight those negative reviews deserve.
We read reviews all the time about some of the early front load machines and how horrible they are. How does one explain users here in this group that has had them for 10-15 years and they love them? Clearly the reviews don't tell the whole story.
Had the Internet existed in the past, you can bet that machines back then would have had negative reviews too. People experiencing problems with things and complaining about it is hardly a new concept. The Internet just makes is WAY easier to see it all.
Machines today are built lighter and with more plastic and electronics. It is possible that their life spans will be reduced as a result. It is far more likely that they will be judged as "flimsy or poorly built" just based on a persons perceived ideals. Electronics are the same way, folks are scared of them because they don't understand them. In today's cost cut world, I'd wager that the mechanical timers made today would be expensive and not as long lived as vintage ones also. Plus you loose the wonderful advantages that electronics can bring. In the end the concept of designing the "perfect" machine that will last forever is ludicrous. It could never sell due to cost and the average consumer is going to replace the appliance far sooner then need be replaced anyhow.
user 3941
Well-known member
I think new dishwashers are better
Just my opinion but they are one appliance that I think has improved greatly over the years. Granted if I could find a nice condition KA dishwasher of the Hobart design from the 80's or early 90's (in black), I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat, but for the most part I'm very very happy with new dishwashers. Yes loading it correctly is crucial, even in the best machine. It can't clean where the water doesn't hit...that's just common sense.
I remember tons and tons of times as a kid emptying the dishwasher and throwing uncleaned items in the sink to be reloaded and washed again. I hardly ever have to do that now. But of course my dishwasher loading skills have improved with age too lol.
Biggest thing I like is noise level. I had a GE or Hotpoint Potscrubber type machine in a previous apartment about 5 years ago. That thing was LOUD. Holy crap, it would wake the dead. I thought it was broken when I moved in and was excited that maybe I would get a new one. But the maintenance guy called me and said it was fine...and it was. LOL.
Just my opinion but they are one appliance that I think has improved greatly over the years. Granted if I could find a nice condition KA dishwasher of the Hobart design from the 80's or early 90's (in black), I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat, but for the most part I'm very very happy with new dishwashers. Yes loading it correctly is crucial, even in the best machine. It can't clean where the water doesn't hit...that's just common sense.
I remember tons and tons of times as a kid emptying the dishwasher and throwing uncleaned items in the sink to be reloaded and washed again. I hardly ever have to do that now. But of course my dishwasher loading skills have improved with age too lol.
Biggest thing I like is noise level. I had a GE or Hotpoint Potscrubber type machine in a previous apartment about 5 years ago. That thing was LOUD. Holy crap, it would wake the dead. I thought it was broken when I moved in and was excited that maybe I would get a new one. But the maintenance guy called me and said it was fine...and it was. LOL.
kb0nes
Well-known member
In the new vs old arguments I don't think there is any appliance that has degraded more then the dishwasher. If my machine died I wouldn't buy a new machine to replace it...
In a move to try to make dishwashers silent, they just don't move any water anymore. They also use slightly less water then before but I'm not sure this is really the reason that modern ones may not perform like their ancestors. I have installed two new Whirlpool dishwashers in the past couple years, I remain amazingly unimpressed with either.
Dishwashers today do have the advantage of modern high performance enzyme detergents which helps them to a degree.
In a move to try to make dishwashers silent, they just don't move any water anymore. They also use slightly less water then before but I'm not sure this is really the reason that modern ones may not perform like their ancestors. I have installed two new Whirlpool dishwashers in the past couple years, I remain amazingly unimpressed with either.
Dishwashers today do have the advantage of modern high performance enzyme detergents which helps them to a degree.
dishwasher sounds
I have noticed that the 2 models of lg, particularly the5811 and the 4821 sound different.
I have noticed that the 2 models of lg, particularly the5811 and the 4821 sound different.
poor quality
LG dishwashers are poor quality! They don't clean dishes at all! There is no high temp wash or heated dry! Rinse aid is required! The electronics and motors fail! LG should be ashamed of themselves! It doesn't matter how you load them! They are caked with film and dirty food particles that are baked on! I'm glad my dad has a whirlpool gold dishwasher that is miles better than that Korean piece of crap LG! I have read tons of reviews and I am glad I have saved myself some grief from LG's lousy garbage! The whirlpool my dad has gets right down to business! LG's are just dishwetters! What a piece of crap! They are the worst I have ever seen!
LG dishwashers are poor quality! They don't clean dishes at all! There is no high temp wash or heated dry! Rinse aid is required! The electronics and motors fail! LG should be ashamed of themselves! It doesn't matter how you load them! They are caked with film and dirty food particles that are baked on! I'm glad my dad has a whirlpool gold dishwasher that is miles better than that Korean piece of crap LG! I have read tons of reviews and I am glad I have saved myself some grief from LG's lousy garbage! The whirlpool my dad has gets right down to business! LG's are just dishwetters! What a piece of crap! They are the worst I have ever seen!
GELaundry4ever,
How many different brands and models of dishwashers have you used to verify your claim against LG?
user 3941
Well-known member
Seriously.
And after I explained why they don't have a "heated" wash, because their machines heat the water anyway!! It took me like 3 seconds to copy and paste that chart. 3 seconds I could have spent doing something else. OMG. :-/
And after I explained why they don't have a "heated" wash, because their machines heat the water anyway!! It took me like 3 seconds to copy and paste that chart. 3 seconds I could have spent doing something else. OMG. :-/
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Please be kind
Sometimes post make us frustrated, with a little empathy we can find some kindness.
Sometimes post make us frustrated, with a little empathy we can find some kindness.
user 3941
Well-known member
Hrumphf
Look, it's not that we're trying not to be kind or helpful.
It's that when we ARE kind and helpful with explanations, sources and facts, they're thrown back in our face with hyperbole, claptrap and misinformation, over and over and OVER and OVER again, and with the same stupid, non-quantifiable youtube clips.
Don't feed the troll!
It's that when we ARE kind and helpful with explanations, sources and facts, they're thrown back in our face with hyperbole, claptrap and misinformation, over and over and OVER and OVER again, and with the same stupid, non-quantifiable youtube clips.
Don't feed the troll!
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I do not believe he is a troll
If you can't find tollerance, then either skip the post or block the user.
We could try to use our knowledge to mentor.
[this post was last edited: 10/30/2015-10:29]
If you can't find tollerance, then either skip the post or block the user.
We could try to use our knowledge to mentor.
[this post was last edited: 10/30/2015-10:29]
weak pump
Why is lg, Samsung and everybody else putting weak pumps in their dishwashers? If a dishwasher is quiet, it doesn't clean! How are lg dishwashers supposed to dry your dishes without heated dry? You can't! It doesn't matter if you used rinse aid! You can't put a huge load of dishes up to capacity in these dishwashers! The racks are too close to the jets! They should be called dishwetters! Lg's take for years and years to get your dishes clean! LG needs to learn from GE, Whirlpool, Maytag and Kitchenaid and Frigidaire from the past! Quiet equals dirty dishes! If my dishwasher is loud due to intense spray, that means it is doing what is supposed to do! Dishwashers are supposed to wash your dishes! Who said that Samsung and especially LG were allowed to make appliances, including dishwashers? Nobody!
http://https//www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/lg-dishwasher.html?page=4
Why is lg, Samsung and everybody else putting weak pumps in their dishwashers? If a dishwasher is quiet, it doesn't clean! How are lg dishwashers supposed to dry your dishes without heated dry? You can't! It doesn't matter if you used rinse aid! You can't put a huge load of dishes up to capacity in these dishwashers! The racks are too close to the jets! They should be called dishwetters! Lg's take for years and years to get your dishes clean! LG needs to learn from GE, Whirlpool, Maytag and Kitchenaid and Frigidaire from the past! Quiet equals dirty dishes! If my dishwasher is loud due to intense spray, that means it is doing what is supposed to do! Dishwashers are supposed to wash your dishes! Who said that Samsung and especially LG were allowed to make appliances, including dishwashers? Nobody!
http://https//www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/lg-dishwasher.html?page=4
I have had 6 dishwashers.
I have had 6 of them! They had powerful, not wimpy pumps like dishwashers are supposed to! I don't do drugs! Period! I do my research! I read consumer reviews! I'd rather have a hurricane in a box that is heavy duty, not a cheap, flimsy, Chinese and/or Korean piece of crap power lawn sprinklers! They're delicate machines! They're power lawn sprinklers! No way am I getting a brand new Chinese made dishwasher! Assembled in the US doesn't made in the US! Parts are from China, Korea or Mexico! No offense, but that's what the fine print says! Ask Spatsbear!
I have had 6 of them! They had powerful, not wimpy pumps like dishwashers are supposed to! I don't do drugs! Period! I do my research! I read consumer reviews! I'd rather have a hurricane in a box that is heavy duty, not a cheap, flimsy, Chinese and/or Korean piece of crap power lawn sprinklers! They're delicate machines! They're power lawn sprinklers! No way am I getting a brand new Chinese made dishwasher! Assembled in the US doesn't made in the US! Parts are from China, Korea or Mexico! No offense, but that's what the fine print says! Ask Spatsbear!
I need proof!
I need proof! I'd like to see videos of the inside of an LG dishwasher! I have seen videos of a few other brands with the cameras inside! Until then, I refuse to touch lg dishwashers until there is a video of the interior operation!
I need proof! I'd like to see videos of the inside of an LG dishwasher! I have seen videos of a few other brands with the cameras inside! Until then, I refuse to touch lg dishwashers until there is a video of the interior operation!
Well, I just burst into laughter.
First thing first: US vs EU. Keep that in mind.
But our dishwashers just fullfill all your criteria for a bad DW.
Silent: Check. (39dB is the quietest I have found, with a cycle designed for night use which tones down to 37dB.)
Small motors: Kinda. The secret is called inverter. As far as I know, the 39dB DW (an E-Lux made AEG) can run with motor wattage up to something like 150W, yet down to just about 50W.
Years and years to clean: Funny that Auto\Sensor cycles are doing the exact opposite. I've barely seen a sensor cycle extending time, and only on few occasions not cutting down.
Tines to close: 15 place settings on the 39dB AEG. Hmm. Dosen't sound bad.
No heated dry: I think heated dry was being phased out 20 years ago in the EU. Actually, the most high-tech dishdrying method comes from Germany and is called "Zeolith" (now redesigned into - I think they call it - "Zeolith 3D"), which is quite a fun concept made by BSH (Bosch). And somehow, we have dry dishes. Except for plastic. This sh** always stays kind of damp.
And I have yet to hear any complaints about such dishwashers not cleaning well. Except for the occasional loading error or stuck-on bit, NOT A SINGLE load I haver washed in a DW did not come clean.
And you don't need to be allowed to build DW or any other applaince. Just meet you countrys regulations, follow the law of your country and you can build a DW in any way you want.
First thing first: US vs EU. Keep that in mind.
But our dishwashers just fullfill all your criteria for a bad DW.
Silent: Check. (39dB is the quietest I have found, with a cycle designed for night use which tones down to 37dB.)
Small motors: Kinda. The secret is called inverter. As far as I know, the 39dB DW (an E-Lux made AEG) can run with motor wattage up to something like 150W, yet down to just about 50W.
Years and years to clean: Funny that Auto\Sensor cycles are doing the exact opposite. I've barely seen a sensor cycle extending time, and only on few occasions not cutting down.
Tines to close: 15 place settings on the 39dB AEG. Hmm. Dosen't sound bad.
No heated dry: I think heated dry was being phased out 20 years ago in the EU. Actually, the most high-tech dishdrying method comes from Germany and is called "Zeolith" (now redesigned into - I think they call it - "Zeolith 3D"), which is quite a fun concept made by BSH (Bosch). And somehow, we have dry dishes. Except for plastic. This sh** always stays kind of damp.
And I have yet to hear any complaints about such dishwashers not cleaning well. Except for the occasional loading error or stuck-on bit, NOT A SINGLE load I haver washed in a DW did not come clean.
And you don't need to be allowed to build DW or any other applaince. Just meet you countrys regulations, follow the law of your country and you can build a DW in any way you want.
lg heating water
Of course these dishwashers heat the water! However, LG and Samsung should've put at least a high temp wash option on their dishwashers! Why didn't lg put a high temp wash option on their dishwashers? Am I expecting too much or am I too accustomed to the ones that I have had?
Of course these dishwashers heat the water! However, LG and Samsung should've put at least a high temp wash option on their dishwashers! Why didn't lg put a high temp wash option on their dishwashers? Am I expecting too much or am I too accustomed to the ones that I have had?
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
The wonderful thing in a free market system
You don't have to touch a LG or Samsung dishwasher. There are others available, you are free to choose.
To be quite honest, in my lifetime I have never, and I do repeat NEVER seen a video of the inside of any dishwasher I own(ed).
You don't have to touch a LG or Samsung dishwasher. There are others available, you are free to choose.
To be quite honest, in my lifetime I have never, and I do repeat NEVER seen a video of the inside of any dishwasher I own(ed).
Though you made a rhethorical question there...
You ARE to accustomed to what you once (maybe) (maybe not) have (not) used!
Oh, and searching reviewed.com for a better video, I found this:
You ARE to accustomed to what you once (maybe) (maybe not) have (not) used!
Oh, and searching reviewed.com for a better video, I found this:
brucelucenta
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,924
These kind of posts are getting kind of tiresome….
There is an old saying, "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all". I think that should be applied in many of these rants and bashing of newer, more modern appliances that are made somewhere other than here in the USA. The reason that Toyota and Honda are the best cars available on the market today, is because of the poor manufacturing and failure of the cars made in the USA. That should be a clue to many, since a lot of us now would never even consider a USA made automobile these days, with the other choices we have now.
There is an old saying, "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all". I think that should be applied in many of these rants and bashing of newer, more modern appliances that are made somewhere other than here in the USA. The reason that Toyota and Honda are the best cars available on the market today, is because of the poor manufacturing and failure of the cars made in the USA. That should be a clue to many, since a lot of us now would never even consider a USA made automobile these days, with the other choices we have now.
Quiet equals dirty dishes!
Depending on the dishwasher, this is totally false. I have a Miele which is one of the quietest dishwashers on the market but yet it cleans extremely well, all the time. I have to almost put my ear against the door to hear it running. And I do no pre-rinse my dishes. And sometimes the dishes sit for several days before I run the dishwasher. Case in point, I made scalloped potatoes and the casserole dish had baked on food. The dish sat in the dishwasher for 3 days before I ran the cycle. Everything came out spotless.
Depending on the dishwasher, this is totally false. I have a Miele which is one of the quietest dishwashers on the market but yet it cleans extremely well, all the time. I have to almost put my ear against the door to hear it running. And I do no pre-rinse my dishes. And sometimes the dishes sit for several days before I run the dishwasher. Case in point, I made scalloped potatoes and the casserole dish had baked on food. The dish sat in the dishwasher for 3 days before I ran the cycle. Everything came out spotless.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Quiet equals dirty dishes!
I will agree with Countryguy.
I have a Kitchenaid and it is quiet, the convection fan in the oven is noiser than the dishwasher. Rarely do I take a dish out that is not perfectly clean and spotless.
As for heated dry, many maker have phased this option out, or did away with it long ago. It is actually an option I never use. I use a high temp rinse and the dishes dry themselves from residual heat.
I usually run the dishes at night and they sit til the next morning. Plastics, and sometimes the tops of cups are the only signs of moisture with pro-dry.
I will agree with Countryguy.
I have a Kitchenaid and it is quiet, the convection fan in the oven is noiser than the dishwasher. Rarely do I take a dish out that is not perfectly clean and spotless.
As for heated dry, many maker have phased this option out, or did away with it long ago. It is actually an option I never use. I use a high temp rinse and the dishes dry themselves from residual heat.
I usually run the dishes at night and they sit til the next morning. Plastics, and sometimes the tops of cups are the only signs of moisture with pro-dry.
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