LG Equipped Laundromat in Manhattan

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Alliance and Wascomat ...............................

have absolutely nothing to worry about.....I bet this place will replace these machines or close within a year. LG washers are most definitely are NOT built for commercial use, especially commmercial use in NYC. (or should I say commmercial abuse in NYC)
Look what happened to the Whirlpool/Maytag Sport machines in Stuvesant Town, and Peter Cooper Village. They were destroyed, people could not adapt to such low water usage machines, and they were trashed.
Mike
 
Do Not Think There Is A Public Laundromat In NYC

That mainly uses or even has top loading washing machines anymore. For the most part most or all have front loading washers and for good reasons.

Commercial laundries pay for water used and often sewage as well, so there is an incentive to save on those costs.

Here in NYC for instance when there is a water shortage the city can order all commercial establishments to reduce their water usage, and that includes laundromats. If an inspector visited a laundry and found water above a certain level in any washer the owner is liable for fines.

Front loading washers hold more than top, so even the lowest rated load will probably be equal or slighly more in the former verus the latter.

Because they use less water that translates into less hot water as well for front loaders. Another area of savings.

Finally have heard from laundromat owners that in terms of durability, service and so forth front loading washers are far better than top loaders. One has only to look at commercial laundries where H-Axis washers have long dominated on both sides of the pond. Some laundries may have the one off top loader for *special* items, but by and large all washing is done by front loaders or methods that produce similar results such a tunnel washers.
 
Learning Experience

Perhaps LG will learn valuable information from this experience and vastly improve their machines to be more reliable for this particular application. Or, they could dry and blow away altogether.

Discuss....

Malcolm
 
Quote: Here in NY laundromat owners pay for water twice, once as fresh water then again for sewage, so there is another cost.

Really? And how is the amount of water pushed into the sewers measured?
By what method is water double-billed? Who bills for this?

Quote: Here in NYC for instance when there is a water shortage the city can order all commercial establishments to reduce their water usage, and that includes laundromats. If an inspector visited a laundry and found water above a certain level in any washer the owner is liable for fines.

Really? What would that level be? What would it be in a front-loader? in a top-loader? Where can I see these regulations in print? The water is metered and therefore paid-for. It makes no sense to penalize a laundromat for water usage when such utility is vital to their business.



New York city for decades did not meter water in that the sentiment was that with so many people living in such a small amount of space/land, the City wanted all to be clean and not stingy with the use of water. It goes against logic and common sense that today's mania with saving water and resources has swung to the point (at least in NYC) that doing laundry in a front-loader (i.e. efficiently) would be further scrutinized.

Please provide a link to written regulations and/or disclose your source.
 
At both my laundries, I pay both water and sewer.  In one store, water is billed at $2.25 per 1000 gal, while sewer is billed at $8.25 per 1000 gal consumed ($308.48 and $1136.56 last month).  At my other store, sewer is nearly twice what the water charge is ($442.49 water, $719.25 sewer last month).  Sewer is based on water consumption, without any adjustment for water lost for evaporation (via dryers).  Look closely at your next water bill to see if there is a separate line item for sewer.

 

Based on these rates, it is always in the best interest of the owner to have the most efficient equipment.  That and/or the ability to charge a premium for machines that are less efficient.  For example, my Maytag toploaders are priced the same as my Wascomat doubleloads, even tho' the Wascomats use less than half the water of the Maytags.  And that will be changed soon so that the tops are a quarter or .50 more than the doubles.  My Maytag "super cycle" (extra 3 min wash time and a 2nd rinse) are .50 extra.
 
Our water and sewer-use rates are calculated similarly, but the sewer rates have gone up. Residential rates (commercial rates are higher and tiered based on volume) used to be roughly half of billed water consumption for sewer charges but with aging infrastructure in older parts of the city in addition to a decade plus plan imposing surcharges to comply with sanitary & storm sewer separation regulations, the sewer rates have nearly matched the consumption charges.
 
Still Do Not Understand

Why someone hasn't spotted the hole in the market for laundromat front loaders with better extraction!

I don't care what spec sheets say and or the "larger diameter ....." argument, am here to tell you items coming out of the local laundromats Speed Queen washers can still have water wrung from them. This does not happen with my Miele even when set to only 900rpm final spin.

Suppose it wouldn't be so bad if those Bock extractors were still around, but here in NYC and perhaps elsewhere in the state do not think there is a place that still has them.

Fully half the items bunged into those blast oven heat laundromat dryers could be simply taken home and hung up for a bit and would be totally dry if the final spin was better.
 
Bock Extractors

I think the Bock extractors were a liability risk for the laundromat owner. Somehow, they were thought to be unsafe. Plus, the average coin-op user is not gonna be bothered with an extra step in the process.

Malcolm
 
John found a plumber who would put in, at great cost, a sub meter for outside use to save on the sewage charges on every gallon of water that comes through the water meter. When I was getting plants established, it was a good idea, but now, I hardly use outside water unless we have an extremely dry period. We both had one installed, but the Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission was really nasty to work with. The plumber said that the office for the permits for these sub meters was only open a few hours a week and the permits were very expensive since they knew a sub meter would cut into their exorbitant rates. It is the sewage equivalent of getting a same sex marriage license in some places in New York.

Back to the main topic: I don't see why front loading washers which used far less water than top loaders to begin with had to have water usage throttled back so severely. Westinghouse and the Philco Bendix design, later Dexter, washed large loads without using as much water as a top loader. My Mieles and the Creda wash and rinse in adequate amounts of water, but are not examples of the insanity that hit the industry with the giant drum washers that use so little water.
 
Speaking of extractors,  would it be possible for one of the home laundry mfr's to create a T/L machine  with the faster spin speed that the HE T/L 's have, set up as extractors only?  The tubs are huge, no agitator to speak of and the the lid locks. It would be much easier to install than the bock type extractors.  Think of the wear and tear it would save on the actual front load washer bearings ,   maybe the front loaders could spin just enough to stop "dripping", during the transfer to the extractors.  In a coin op setting it might even speed things along.  What is the cycle time on the coin op LG's?
 
The fly in that ointment is that if front loaders do not spin fast, more water is left in the clothes and with the small amount of water that is used for rinsing, you would not get good rinsing because you would be carrying more detergent and dirt laden water into successive water changes. Then too, people would bitch about having to carry heavy wet stuff to the extractor.
 
I do see your point Tom,  and they would no doubt complain about the extra step.  Not having a f/l machine i had no idea that they had such a high speed spin between water changes.  Thanks alr
 
Laundress

It's a hole in how-to-run-your-business.  First, 300+G washers cost 2-3x more to purchase than the 90G hardmounts, so most owners won't spring for them when they are already cash strapped going into business.  Second, by increasing extraction, you loose time (read: money) from your dryers.  Owners who do have hi-extract washers are still trying to figure out their pricing balance so as not to piss people off (charge more for washers? decrease temps in the dryers? 2 minutes/quarter? etc)... 

 

Believe me, when the Neptune first came out, I asked all manufacturers when they would come out with a commercial grade 300G washers, at which they promptly laughed.  Why would anyone want them?  You will spend all your money and no one will use them.  You won't make any money in your dryers.  No, settle for the status quo...

 

The hot thing now is 200G hardmount washers.  All manufactures have them now at a modest price point up from the 90G machines.  All the manufacturers will also tell you that when you look at the amount of water extracted over time, the jump from a 90G machine to a 200G machine is remarkable, but a 200G compared to a 300G machine is very minor.  I haven't seen nor looked for this data firsthand...  Then they will tell you that the way a typical laundromat user uses coin-op machines, 300G machines rarely get balanced and achieve full speed.
 
Both my home in Austin and my apartment in DFW charge double (but separately) for water and sewer. At the apt they assume everything coming out of the faucet goes down the drain. And except for what evaporates in winter, it does. What evaporates in summer goes down the AC drain.

At the house in Austin, they took your winter rate (no landscaping) and charged you that sewer rate in summer, taking yard watering off the sewer charge. Prior to the 80s when cities weren't desparate for revenue, nobody ever heard of a sewer charge.

I do not know 'for certain' that the same charges apply to commercial customers. Residential water rates are 'tiered', more you use, higher the cost/unit. Commercial is flat rate. Tiering does not apply to residential sewer.
 
Am Told The IRS Works The Same In Regards To Laundries

At least in that for laundromats and commercial laundries they can look at water and sewage bills to determine how much business the place does. Apparently the IRS has records of models of washing machines (or can obtain them) and thus information on how much water is used per cycle.

While one can see how laundromats may come under the gun during an audit as they are most always cash businesses (and the IRS *hates* that sort of thing,*LOL*), large commercial laundries normally work on account so records are easily traced.
 
arbilab your house in Austin

That's exactly how my city (up I-35 from Austin) calculates their sewar usage and rates.  Any lawn watering is not factored in because sewar usage is averaged over the 3 months of January, February, and either December or March.  those months I watch my water consumptio like a hawk to keep it under 2000 gallons.  The lower sewar usage also has a small impact n water consumtpion rates too.  However, any time I go over 2000 gallons consumption in a billing cycle, a $2.00 sewar fee is tacked on, which burns me to no end.  A couple of years ago when we wree under dry conditions in the winter, people were watering their yards.  (I didn't because I didn't want to get zapped for ahigh sewar fee for 12 months.  But the city decided to forgo consumption for that 3 month billing averqage priod and simply used what people had had on their record the year before.  I hope that's what's done again during this drought. 
 

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