LG FL Needs more water

[pullmyfinger]

More pics

The tee

 

[pullmyfinger]

The extra volume

 

[pullmyfinger]

LG provided a perfect size hole to exit the hose outside.

 

[pullmyfinger]

I agree with everything you said westy. I was reluctant to solder in a resister or any other electrical hack as this "mechanical only" mod is easily removed in the event of a warranty repair.

And,I mounted the chamber externally so its easy to fine tune the water level to where I want it.

Finally, this is a rigid setup now with the pvc tube. You are correct about the spongy plastic bottles. So far I ran 1 load with good results, water level is just about at the edge of the bottom of the door as shown in post 22.

That was with the bulk/large cycle and water plus on. Thanks for your contribution and input.

 

[3beltwesty]

Thanks for images.

Pullmyfinger, Thanks for the images. I have not opened my machine up yet.

** was the cover hard to remove; ie a mess of stuff to break?

I actually have the same WM2501HWA washer too and got it on sale at Home Depot for 599 a few weeks back. It has the aluminum spider part number as supremewhirlpol's rebuild of the WM2277HW, thus maybe I will get 5 years life and be happy. Home Depot had Amana FL NFW7300WW on sale for just 349 bucks

As far as the water sensor, I actually ordered one to play with and mess with. The manuals and web info are poor.

Several web images appear to have 5V ie 5 volts marked on the sensor. At first I thought this was cars vacuum sensor, ie ground, +5 volts and signal. The iron slug comments make it sound like it is an inductor, a 23 Ohm coil with a moveable slug. I have an Inductance meter for coils and gobs of electrical stuff to test it when it arrives.

I really am not sure why they makers of these FL washer cannot just make another thing to goose up the water level.

***Maybe it is the ratings, government tests, water police.

There are times with my house rebuild where clothes get rear grubby, and some more water helps.

The actual electrical cost to run one load of clothes is only here about 2 cents, water is in the same range probably too. If the washer with tax say cost 700 bucks and is dead in 1400 washes; the washers cost is 50 cents per load. If it dies in 2800 washes; it is 25 cents per load. Thus here the water worry is absurd.

 

[pullmyfinger]

The cover comes off in 1 minute, just remove 2 screws and slide it back and up.

I'm an auto technician, and had a laugh when someone here posted that these fl's are hard to work on....Really? these are nothing compaired to working on modern day cars.

Even if the spider goes bad in 5 years, I will just replace it and the bearings/seals for 100 bucks and go 5 more.

I may bring home my lab scope from work (used for testing automotive sensors)and graph the wls just for fun and see how it works. How much was a new wls?

 

[3beltwesty]

Any other issues with other cycles with this mod?

The WLS 6601ER1006E was about 22 with shipping. They vary price between 16 and 30 bucks without shipping.

The spider 4434ER0002A is 60.35 at Sears, not sure what the shipping is. On ebay a guy has them 75 with freight.

I think the failure sequence in supremewhirlpol's machine was the spiders corrosion probably accelerated the seals failure too, then water leaked out and ruined the bearings and got to the hall effect sensor (diagram K351) 6501KW2002A that is 18.36 at sears.

Since you are a car repair guy person repairing a FL washer is easier than the average person.

I wager the average Joe/Jane just junks their FL washer once the spider breaks, since the labor involved kills the project!.

****With a "fake off/hack/mod" like faking off (too much) the Water Level sensor, I wonder if it can get the computer in a bind in the other cycles. ie it running the pump(s) when it still thinks the tub is full and it is way down?

 

[jlbrazil]

My LG rinse water level

Hi guys , here is a pic of my LG rinse water level.
Sorry about the water color , this was a very dirty load haha

 

[pullmyfinger]

****With a "fake off/hack/mod" like faking off (too much) the Water Level sensor, I wonder if it can get the computer in a bind in the other cycles. ie it running the pump(s) when it still thinks the tub is full and it is way down?

Good point Westy. I will watch the behavior during different cycles and see if there are any problems.

I wonder if these machines have different water level calibrations for different countries? jlbrazil's level looks higher than my machine before the mod.

 

[pullmyfinger]

Copied from Consumer Reports.org

For top-loaders, Roper was one of the more reliable brands and Fisher & Paykel among the more repair-prone brands. LG was the most reliable front-loader brand. That's what we found when we asked over 104,000 readers who bought a clothes washer between 2006 and 2010 about their experiences. The graph shows the percentage of models for each brand that were repaired or had a serious problem. Differences of less than 4 points are not meaningful, and we've adjusted the data to eliminate differences linked solely to the usage and age of the washer. Models within a brand may vary, and changes in design or manufacture may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a good repair history can improve your odds of getting a reliable model.

Brand Repairs and Serious Problems

Washing Machines (Front Loaders) Percentages of Repairs and Serious Problems



LG 7
Whirlpool 11
Kenmore 11
Frigidaire 11
Maytag 11
Bosch 13
GE 14

 

[pullmyfinger]

Top loader ratings

Roper 6
Amana 9
Frigidaire 10
Kenmore 10
Whirlpool 10
Maytag 11
GE 12
Fisher & Paykel 15

 

[jlbrazil]

Pullmyfinger...

It has a higher water level , but it is only 2.7cu.
Very small

 

[3beltwesty]

I wonder about past looking data.

I sort of wonder about data that is looking back in time:

Since LG has roughly had front loaders since say 2004? ? ? in the USA, and other brands go alot back farther. Some go to the mid and late 1990's.

Thus my thinking is if both ACME and KILROY FL washer products have 30 percent dead at 10 years and 2 percent at 5 years and 1/5 percent at 1 year, the newer brand gets a better score since its population of machines is younger.

ie if both ACME and KILROY are really the exact same design; if ACME came out in 2000 and KILROY came out in 2005, Kilroy gets a better report card since the bell curve of failures has not being seen yet.

 

[3beltwesty]

Marketing and Names

When I looked at the Home Depot Amana 4.0 cu. ft. Super Capacity Front Load Washer Model: NFW7300WW that was on sale for $349 ; my brain said that is too low! Thus one sales guy said it was a Maytag, another said it was a Whirlpool. The Patent plate said Whirlpool. They own the Amana brand name.

I thought the old Maytag Neptune line was later made by Samsung and just rebranded.

If one types in NFW7300WW into repair clinics search, it shows Maytag parts for models close to this model number. The drum and spider Item # 1515048 is 207 bucks on a washer that was on sale for 349. A search by Amana has no model numbers listed and has different drum parts. They show no search my Samsung. This I wonder if this is made in the USA or not, since the price was so darn low.

I really did not get a good feeling when a google search really gave no parts like pumps etc for a NFW7300WW, thus my bias was it is a non USA machine with an American name to make folks feel good. I maybe all wet.

 

[pullmyfinger]

What do we mean by eliminating differences solely due to age and usage?

The published repair index reflects a statistical standardization that controls for the effects of age (and usually) usage on failure rates. We have found that the percent of models that have ever failed generally increases with both age and usage. Since brands in our survey had different age and usage profiles, we standardized data by applying a constant set of weights to repair rates for each brand year and usage category. The resulting index can be interpreted as the percent of models in the analysis that had ever been repaired or had a serious problem that was not repaired -- standardized by the typical age and usage distribution.

 

[3beltwesty]

What do we mean by eliminating differences solely due to age

What I mean is that in FL washers:

(1) The average LG is only a few years old since they really were not marketed in the USA for along time. As far as a catastrophic failures, LG has few since the age of the population is very young.

(2)A brand like Maytag has FL washers going back over a decade.

(3) Brands like say Kenmore that are built by others had aluminum spider failures folks talked about on websites before LG even sold a FL washer here.

Since corrosion takes a few to many years; LG has few if any field failures of spiders, and a brand like Kenmore has a terrible rash of FL washers spider failures.

Some of these web dialogs have spider failures before LG even sold a FL washer in the USA. There are aluminum spiders that failed in non LG machine over 8 years ago.

Thus a typical report by an actual LG user of a FL washer is not long enough to show a long term major failure rate like a broken spider. If I take the handfull of local folks I know who own LG FL washers, the oldest is just 2 years old, the average maybe 1 year.

If one searches google for aluminum spider corrosion; LG has few if any hits since their average FL washer is newer than a Kenmore. Thus a FL Kenmore looks bad to the average lay reader.

If LG uses a different aluminum alloy that is poorer or better than Acme's spider, one will not know any real failure rate data until there are enough older units around and failures occur.

There are so many variables with corrosion that as an engineer the whole prediction is extremely very hokey. Outside the sacred production line few outsiders know if an alloy was changed, if a casting vendor was changed, what if any specs there are for casting porosity limits in rejecting parts.

Just a wee bit of casting porosity can cause part to fatigue 10 to 50 times sooner.

The whole mess of variables involved with a fatigue failure is large dozen plus multiplication of hokey poor variables that are guesses. Then one adds galvanic corrosion, an unknown type and quantity of soap used, the spin speed, the number of washes done is not known, nor the wash temp, nor the water hardness either. One does not even know the average load in Lbs the basket sees as an imbalance that forces the cyclic fatigue failure.

Supremewhirlpol's documentation of a failed LG aluminum spider might be a rare early failure, or the tip of the iceberg of a mess of failures. Nobody knows, there is not enough failures yet to make a valid statistical model.

Thus here I really hope that my LG is not going to die in 4 years, and last 12 , but have about zero data to make any predictions.

With some other brands that have been around way longer, there are gobs of folks with aluminum spider failures. One can type in the poor old model number and gets a mess of folks complaining about spider failures.

I really think that it is too early to predict LG's reliability in the USA as far as a major breakdown like a broken spider, since there are few failures and the population is so young. It is like saying ACME cigarettes are safer than Chesterfields, but Acme has only made cigarettes for 5 years and somebody died smoking Chesterfields before we were born.

 

[pullmyfinger]

Westy, post 53 was copied and pasted from CR'S web site, its not my statement. I posted it to help us understand how they rate repair stats with adjustments for age.

 

[3beltwesty]

From post 48:

Brand Repairs and Serious Problems

Washing Machines (Front Loaders) Percentages of Repairs and Serious Problems

LG 7
Whirlpool 11
Kenmore 11
Frigidaire 11
Maytag 11
Bosch 13
GE 14

**I guess I do not see how CR can "adjust the data with age" for a LG FL washer; since they have not been sold here too many year.

Ie the chap in the link below bought a Kenmore FL washer in 2001 and it died with a broken aluminum spider in 2007.

I just wonder how CR can say with any validity that LG is better (less Repairs and Serious Problems
)than all other FL brands, when they have not been sold here for so long.

I would expect LG's rating to become more like the others, as the units grow older and there is more real data.

 

[3beltwesty]

Subject change; washers load sense , bars reading and waster

The manual says that the beginning load sense "determines the weight" for the water level it uses. This shows up then as 1,2,3 or 4 bars,.

In my usage; most all loads only make 1 bar show. Last night 2 bars showed up. In all my limited usages; say 2 dozens loads, 3 bars showed up only once and I had the thing full of stuff.

The computer is sensing for motors extra Torque required, either the torque ripple, or added torque because the basket has more stuff.

 

[pullmyfinger]

I have never seen 4 bars, even with large towels full of water added for weight.