LG Six Motion videos

[paulc]

Luv2wash

Stick with the Miele set......I've had my Miele washer for over two years and have never tired of it, every wash is slightly differant and it's like having a new machine everyday!

 

[chestermikeuk]

Wash Profiles

Will be interesting to see how it performs with a full load in their 11kg capacity machines, I wonder if it would help distribution by randomly breaking up the position of said clothing!!!

Many of the high end machines of multi stages drum rythmns now, even the Fagor model I`m testing has a profile wash (which very much surprised me!!) slow / fast tumble, slow distribution, fast distribution and a 600rpm spin within the wash cycle!!!

BUT whatever machine you use (and get to know how it works) they are capable of giving perfectly cleans results, as long as the operator can compensate by calculating the variables!!!

 

[jerrod6]

I have an older (think year 2000) Miele.  There is no mention of different  rhythms while  tumbling but my observation is that it is not always using the same type of tumble in the same phase of the cycle.  Of course there is no rocking back and forth, swinging, or rolling that I see but every load comes out clean and well rinsed.  It  works well without the various movements...so I can't see why I would need this.. Yeah it sounds cool, it looks cool...but I guess I don't need it because I am getting completely clean rinsed clothes without it.   I don't think I would go for this coolness over my Miele washer.  One thing...If you purchased the larger 48XX I have seen the tumble on this in videos  and parts of it can be described as rolling.  It is a tumble that starts slow, increases in speed to almost a  very low spin, then a slow down to stop.

 

I wonder if this rocking cleans better than the old style Duet?

 

[mrb627]

Another Movement

We need these new movements to makeup for washing in cold water.  When you lower one variable, you must raise another to achieve the end result.  Eventually, the paddles in the tub will be spring loaded.  When they reach the top of the drum, they will swing down and pound the load into the puddle of ice water.

 

LOL

 

Malcolm

 

[3beltwesty]

My take after watching my LG WM2501HVA's random odd motions and rotations is that are to allow the paltry spray/drip of the wash water to each every part of the items. This is more important when the "add water buttone" is not pushed in, since the spin basket is often below the water level. This pleases the government, the washer maker thus gets a tax break/kickback.

The two 1950's reasons of using a FL gets degraded, one has all these gyrations which wear clothes, one has a longer wash cycle.

In the future washers will be made so they work only if crammed full, the wash cycle will be an entire night. 24" frame and 27" frame machines will be outlawed and crushed with a cash for clunkers kickback. 30" frame machines will be only available and thus many folks will only wash once a few weeks.

 

[luv2wash]

You would have to own a lot of clothes to only wash once in every few weeks. I have kids and need to do at least 2 loads a week of their things just to keep them dressed.

 

[3beltwesty]

Jab at the full washer preaching dogma

RE" You would have to own a lot of clothes to only wash once in every few weeks."

I did this when I lived in California and had a coin laundromat I used where it was a big event to travel there. It was easier to just wash less often and own more clothes. I also traveled on a moments notice, ie I had a weeks + worth of items already packed to be sent overseas at a moments notice to firefight an overseas production issue.

Today with a home washer again, some non USA folks on the other threads go crazy with comments of us usa folks just using a washer as a tool like the way we want to; ie ONLY 1/4 or 1/2 full.

Thus here TODAY if I only washed white dress shirts at once, I would have to own 1 or 2 months worth of white shirts for the machine to be full. Maybe in Europe clothes are free and washers are smaller?

Anyway the comment was a jest at others who are into preaching a washing machine has to be full to be thrifty. Here I lost most of my clothes in Katrina, and am still in rebuild low bucks mode. There basically is no way in heck am I going to wash dress white shirts with super dirty tar grubby work clothes that I have due to working on a roof this entire weekend. I was not raised to ruin clothes by mixing a jumble to fill up a machine to be full.

Thus there is the balance of waste:

(1) Does one wash like items when one just is about to run out and thus the washer is still not crammed full?

(2)Or does one max out the credit cards and buy gobs of clothes so the washer is always full?

With work clothes for construction, I can buy pants at the thrift store for 1 to 2 bucks and thus have many dozens of pairs for nil cost. Thus it is easier to fill the washer with dirty work stuff than clean dress white shirts here

 

[lavamat_jon]

"some non USA folks on the other threads go crazy with comments of us usa folks just using a washer as a tool like the way we want to; ie ONLY 1/4 or 1/2 full"

 

It seems that you're the only one taking it to this extent...


 

Nobody is preaching anything, just pointing out mere fact.  In fact, almost every owners manual here will tell you that the most water, energy and time efficient way to do laundry is to wash full loads.  Therefore, if you yourself and a lot of other users of the high capacity US machines are only half filling the machine as you have often pointed out, then is there any point in high capacity machines when they are only going to be used at half capacity for the majority of the time?  Everybody sorts their clothes out here too... but the buying market here aren't in the mentality (somewhat) that bigger is always better.


 

BTW, I don't think I have any clothes back from 2005, so the argument about Katrina seems to baffle me, surely 6 years is enough time in which to stock up a wardrobe again?  God knows, my wardrobe is full to the brim and I don't have anything more than 3 years old or so.


 

It seems to answer your last question, the "wasteful" thing is buying machines with capacity which far exceed the needs.  By all means, the high capacity machines are great if you are actually going to utilise them, but it seems that the US washer market is dictating that people need a bigger capacity than is actually suitable.


 

To end on your last point, when I buy clothes, like most others I'm sure I buy them because I actually like them, not because I have a need to fill the washer LOL.

 

Jon

 

[3beltwesty]

RE

"Therefore, if you yourself and a lot of other users of the high capacity US machines are only half filling the machine as you have often pointed out, then is there any point in high capacity machines when they are only going to be used at half capacity for the majority of the time? Everybody sorts their clothes out here too... but the buying market here aren't in the mentality (somewhat) that bigger is always better."

Answer, A 27" frame high capacity machine is what is sold here in the USA. A 24" frame is a freak, no local stores carry them in stock or to look at, no local service man has every seen one or worked on on before. There is already enough uncertaincy with a 27" machine; why mail order a freak oddball 24" machine that adds more risk and buys one nothing?

Folks in the usa do NOT want a whussy small washer, they do not want a pickup truck that also cannot carry a 4x8 ft piece of plywood either. They do not want some wastefull freak small washer that is the only one around for 200 miles; that a service man has never seen before. Europe is free to fill its landfills with oddball consumer items that nobody will work on. Here the freak oddball items tend to have a fewer repair parts and thus are often thrown away.

RE "BTW, I don't think I have any clothes back from 2005, so the argument about Katrina seems to baffle me, surely 6 years is enough time in which to stock up a wardrobe again? God knows, my wardrobe is full to the brim and I don't have anything more than 3 years old or so."

Here I have clothes doing back to the 1940's in woolens stuff. Due to Katrina, many of us really got really nothing in insurance claims or government assistance, thus the rebuild of our homes and belongings is all out of our own pockets. With pre Katrina yearly insurance premiums of about 2k per year, I got 3400 bucks total with about 100K in damages. I paid over 12k in a decade in premiums and got just 3400 bucks in the largest national disaster. I would have been better off placing the 12K in a Mason Jar in cash with zero interest. Thus the 97K shortfall is out of my own pocket and raw labor. To get that 3400 bucks took 18 months of farting around with so much jackassery that it was really only about 1/2 that if one considers the time wasted in fighting the sobs. Tensions were so high after Katrina that the insurance companies hired ex Chicago police as rental cops. One had to go through metal detectors to talk to a claims chap. After one month of calls they would loose all ones paperwork. Or the paperwork they sent you would be lost in the mail. We did not even have non letters sent to ones houses until 6 months after Katrina, thus letters would be stuck in magazines and received 1/2 to 1 year later.

In a way; unless you have been through it yourself you will never understand. It is sort of like telling somebody who has been through war it was childs play. There are folks still living in tents and makeshift shacks way out in the country river areas. If you candy coat and assume everybody got giant insurance claim payouts I agree that you would be baffled. Many of us are still living in shells of homes and still rebuilding due to lack of funds and we cannot clone ourselves. Basically locally here it is a double dip recession. Unemployment offically is about 9 to 10 percent but is really more like 25 percent. Nobody has any money.

 

[hoover1100]

Europe is free to fill its landfills with oddball consumer i

Do you honestly think our appliances are less reliable than yours? If you do, you are completely mistaken. Besides, when an appliance is scrapped here, it is recycled, not dumped in a landfill, we care far too much about our environment to do that anymore.

I guess if Americans don't want a "wussy small" washer, they must want washers bigger than they will ever need, hence the issue I take with the attitude which seems far more prevelant in the U.S. of "bigger is better and I'll waste as much energy as I want just because I can"

I understand that in your position, it would not have been feasable due to cost and avalaiblity to buy a smaller machine, and of course it would be silly to buy more clothes purely to fill the washer. I know that means you're loads are often not going to be full, I guess it's just a case of filling it as much as you can.

This however, does not mean it is 'good' to wash loads which aren't full. It is always going to be more economical to wash properly full loads, this also does not compromise on performance, something you seem to keep saying.

If I were in your position I would be waiting as long as possible to do a wash, but I wouldn't buy extra clothes or go without clothes I need just to be economical. It's all about being as economical as is reasonably possible.

It is not you personally washing underloaded which anyone takes issue with, it's the fact the American market and (often) American attitudes leave people with no choice but to buy machines far bigger than their needs which I take issue with. Something which results in wasted water, energy and detergent.

You also have to remember we live in a society where it is very much looked down upon if you do not recycle your waste. Where driving around in a massive car is seen as pretencious and unecessary, and where conserving resources is very much respected. I am very grateful to live in such a society, it certainly wasn't like this even 10 years ago though. I hope we can move towards and even less wasteful society in the future.

Matt

 

[peterh770]

Tumbling -- very good lift and drop

Swinging -- useless waste of time and energy

Stepping -- one step down from tumbling, but why stress the motor and suspension like that?

Scrubbing --  more stressful that stepping, and note how some things aren't lifted at all

Rolling -- for when you don't have enough pilling or you need more lint in your dryer lint screen and need more

Filtration -- Just because you want to whip the water and detergent in there to more suds

 

[lavamat_jon]

Fair enough in terms of the hurricane, I guess it is all too easy to make blanket statement without going through it.

 

However, what you have just said in terms of 27" has clarified what I said earlier; what I was saying wasn't criticising anybody who bought the machines at all, a washing machine is a very personal choice for some people especially on the likes of this forum and over on Gardenweb - but it seems that the frontload market there has been conditioned to the point where brand X tries do get a smidgen of a cubic foot capacity more than brand Y, rather than actually designing washers for real capacities and giving the option for small, medium or large machines.  The market here is a lot more free in that sense; and you can literally shop to a capacity that fits your needs.  E.g. an old couple who wash twice a week will only buy the smallest 5 kilo model, whereas a family of 7 would be more inclined to buy a 8-9kilo rated machine - rather than the choice there which seems to be the choice of a washing machine that is oversized for most needs, with brand X being able to wash a mammoth and brand Y being able to wash an elephant.

 

BTW our washers are by far from wussy or freakish, I'm sure a lot of our European models could outperform some of the American giant washers by far...

 

FWIW, over here the 27" washers could be arguably considered as "freak oddball" items.  Bosch sold their Nexxt washer for a few years, as well as Whirlpool with their version of the Duet and they were deemed as too big and soon went off the market, you can only specially order the Whirlpool now.  However, I very much doubt many Europeans are inclined to fill landfills with "oddball" items, in fact I would imagine some European countries probably have some of the best waste management systems and we're less inclined to send items to landfill.

 

It's always interesting to see the differences in attitudes between cultures.

 

Take care,

 

Jon

 

[supremewhirlpol]

I think the different tumbling profiles is cute. LG's is just flexing their motor control muscles. Just because you can get a Brushless DC motor to respond as though it were a stepping motor, under high load, does NOT mean that such an application is practical. But it is a good way to put the Hall-Effect sensor to work. Those Koreans do know how to make cheap effective electronics. But in the real world, horsesh$t is STILL horsesh&t.

PeterH770: Nice way to sum things up. I like it!!

I do have to agree with some of the things 3beltwesty is saying here. Most of the FL machines for sale in Lowes, HD, Sears, are not 24" machines. They are more like 27" machines. NOW if you really wanted a 24" FL machine, you have to do more searching, or seek out the nearest Miele distributor and pay much more money for a smaller machine. That type of mentality just don't work for the average US citizen. When the machine stops working, we send out a repair person. When the repair turns out to be extremely costly, we throw the machine out, race over to the store and look for a new one. Usually when the machine stops working there is a huge load of clothes that has to be washed. We wait until the clothes get piled up, or we get low on clean clothes before we do something about it. The average US citizen does not like to wash clothes, but we know it is necessary, thus we want to spend as less time doing so as possible.

Now, I do think the capacity sizes have become a little excessive, considering the mechanics and electronics involved on consumer machines.

I'm not the average US citizen though when it comes to clothes washing. My working machine capacities range from 3LB to 40LB. For the FL machine that I have, I have found that they wash A LOT better when they are filled to capacity. For my rigid base machines, filling them to capacity means less out of balance loads, which reduces general wear and tear on the machine. If you've ever replaced bearings in a 40LB commercial FL machine, the weight of the parts make it a VERY tiring process. I usually wait until I start to run out of clean clothes, then I will select a day on the weekend(1am-5am) to do my washing out of peak KWh range times, so that using the machines is less costly. I do sort the items based in colors, soil level, and application of the clothes. I then look at the size of the individual wash loads and determine based on machine capacity which machine is most appropriate. Most loads I use either the 22LB W-10 Primus, or the Commercial Neptune. If I have something that is VERY dirty, or needs to soak, or for starching my white dress shirts, I use the 40LB Ipso. Usually I don't fill the ipso any where near capacity, so when it comes time for extract cycle, I transfer the items to another machine for that. The Ipso is A LOT of FUN to use!

Now the ONLY time I have gotten things to just fill a machine to capacity was for testing the Primus W-10X^2 project.

 

[3beltwesty]

It is not a culture thing but a catch 22 thing.

Ok, I agree that a 27" machine is probably oddball, rarer and thus freakish in Europe compared to a 24" machine.

In the USA is is the other way around; the 24" machine is super rare. It is in the parts per million level, probably one in 10,000 or less washers is this size. I have only seen one once in as store my entire life, probably in 1 out of 500 stores as a wild guess. In all the friends and neighbors houses I have been in in about 8 states; I have never seen a 24" frame machine in 50+ years. In fact our own first washer was a 30 to 31" machine from 1947. The USA probably has more 30 and 31" machines than 24" ones.

I have met more major movie stars, known folks who have seen ufo's, owned two Delorean's or drive a 1940'S Ford daily to work in 1995, who have rebuilt an automatic transmission than those who own a 24" washing machine! There are more folks in the usa who own machine guns, airplanes or oil wells than a 24" machine. The only place I see them is on plans for a local companies luxury Yachts or oil rig service boats; where space is a premium.

Here most folks look at the washer they want to buy LOCALLY at a store, and hauling off the dead, leaky, too expensive to repair old one is the added bonus of buying locally.

*****I really do not think the 24" versus a 27" debate is one of culture, it is more what is normal because of costs and local availability. One might ask why Germans drink German beer versus beer from the moon; it is due to cost and local availability.

IE is a giant family in Europe really needed a bigger washer and there were some 27" machines locally at a store and a friend had one that worked, one has a better stance of buying a 27" machine in Europe. The same goes over here, if there were 24" machines at local stores and one knew others locally that had one; the chances of buying one goes up radically.

It is not a culture thing but a catch 22 thing. Folks around the world tend not to but big consumer items they have never seen before, that no local store has; that no local service man has seen before. Thus if one is in the country of Acme; one could buy a ACME car made in ACME; or buy a Yugo and be the only Yugo owner on them island of Acme. Many folks around the world worry about parts and service when one buys an oddball item that nobody else owns locally.

 

[3beltwesty]

THE usa purposely designed bigger FL washers in the mid 1990

From a USA washing machine maker's standpoint there is already a 30 + years of concrete data showing the USA's rejection of small capacity FL washers.

The 1962 to 1992 27" frame Westinghouse washer has about a 2.5 cubic foot capacity, few folks bought them. This is not a "what if" projection, but actual sales history. The USA does not want a small dinky washer; only a few percentage of folks bought them. These early FL machines were at actual local stores in many places.

Thus the FL washers that came out in the 1990's were designed PURPOSELY BIGGER than the FL washers from the 1940's to early 1990's. They designed the newer 27" frame FL machines with the same 22" diameter drum/spin basket , but deeper. ie about 18 or 19 inches versus 11 to 12 inches deep.

Thus in an early 1990's FL usa washer design bull session, a passion filled European crafty chap can preach small FL washers, but get voted down due to 30 to 50 years of solid data of what sells. It is like marketing a dumb idea few want; ie a pickup truck that cannot hold a 4x8 ft piece of plywood; a European TV that cannot pickup soccer, a USA TV that cannot pickup football.

Today one has the double wammy that few in the USA want a small FL washer and also nobody really sells them at a local store either.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

3beltwesty:
"It is like marketing a dumb idea few want; ie a pickup truck that cannot hold a 4x8 ft piece of plywood; a European TV that cannot pickup soccer, a USA TV that cannot pickup football."

Oh, you mean like the Dyson Air multiplier?

 

[3beltwesty]

As Pingmeep said :

"If appliance makers (who are always chasing energy subsidies and energy star labeling) won't increase water or energy usage, mechanical motion is one of the few things left to improve washing performance. Plus if you are using a direct drive motor you already have the ability just need the programming. "

All the modern FL washers I have seen in the USA seem to be programed this way.

Since the tax credit rewards not using much water, the hell bent only thing there is left is random motions to get the spray to all the articles surfaces.

In the old days on a pre mid 1990's FL washer one has a water level knob. Ie one can set the water level where the heck you want to. Since 1950 a westy has had a weigh to save spring loaded door. One weighted the clothes and set the knob. Since one is paying for ones own water and hot water if used one just used what worked. ie no jackass government kickback set the design goals.

Today the kickback via the tax credit outlaws this. Thus to sell washers in the USA the makers chase the tax credit money. The software is thus "played around with" so random motions are used and more time so they water sprays tend to hit all the clothes surfaces.

It really is not clear if this scheme would work well with a washer packed so full that nothing moves with respect to another.

This whole government mandate could be used on home showers too. A shower would take 1 hour with tiny sprays and one after 1 hour would be clean an only 1 gallon used, with the dirty drain water being recirculated to do a respray.

Like it or not many modern FL washers are already recirculating water in the quest to drop water usage.

Driving a rotary motor in random ways is actually quite old, about 30 years in rotary disc drives and about 50 in linear disc drives.

The software options for weird random washer motions are endless, it is just a program to play with using the same mechanics.