LG Steam washer, Anyone tried it yet?
- Thread starter ggibson
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sudsmaster
Well-known member
I saw it at Home Depot today. But for about $400 less, you can get a perfectly good LG with Sanitize heating... which in my opinion is a much better deal.
And the GE is another $200 less, for a good machine also.
And the GE is another $200 less, for a good machine also.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
FADING of darks anyone?
Is the steam cycle of any merit whatsoever?
Is the steam cycle of any merit whatsoever?
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Is it me, or are F/L manufacturers obsessed with unreasonably extending cycle times by any method possible..........
Funny, Toggle, I was thinking the same thing about F/L cycle times. We know they can't make them [cycle times] shorter, or they would be poor performers (ala Speed Queen). Hey, here's an idea: How about a T/L with Heavy steam or perhaps virtual water?
cvillewasherbo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2006
- Messages
- 171
time of cycles
I think the cycle time of most of the FL's today are entirely too long. Talk about wear and tear from TL's--an hour and a half (or more) in a FL with very little water seems like it would wear out clothes just as fast if not faster.
When a TL is used, the complete cycle time on a normal wash is around 30 minutes (different with variances on load size, wash time selected, etc.). Why isn't that long enough to clean a load in a FL, like SQ's which I hear are much shorter cycle times.
Just wondering
Courtney
I think the cycle time of most of the FL's today are entirely too long. Talk about wear and tear from TL's--an hour and a half (or more) in a FL with very little water seems like it would wear out clothes just as fast if not faster.
When a TL is used, the complete cycle time on a normal wash is around 30 minutes (different with variances on load size, wash time selected, etc.). Why isn't that long enough to clean a load in a FL, like SQ's which I hear are much shorter cycle times.
Just wondering
Courtney
c'villewasherbo
HERE!! HERE!! BRAVO!!!
Do you happen to own a Miele or Asko FL washer? You must have a machine with an powerful internal heater to deal with complex stains doncha know. Do not use some inferior supermarket brand of detergent either like Tide, it has to be Persil to get perfect results.
( Sorry, just had to throw a little sarcasm in there,too much THS lately.
)
HERE!! HERE!! BRAVO!!!
Do you happen to own a Miele or Asko FL washer? You must have a machine with an powerful internal heater to deal with complex stains doncha know. Do not use some inferior supermarket brand of detergent either like Tide, it has to be Persil to get perfect results.
( Sorry, just had to throw a little sarcasm in there,too much THS lately.
)
launderess
Well-known member
Problem is American front loaders are wedded to using 120v power, hence those long cycle times for any cycle requiring the heater.
Personally think this whole "steam" washer is a gimmick, especially since the unit runs on 120v. V-Zug washers also offer "steam" cleaing but those babies run on 220v/240v single and IIRC even two/three (cannot remember which), phase power.
One can heat several gallons of water pretty quickly with that much power, even winter Swedish tap cold water.
SQ front loaders are based on their commercial laundromat washers where turn over is key. Unlike say European laundromat washers that can take just as long to complete a cycle as their domestic cousins, American laundromat washers are designed for fast turnover so more customers can use them, and the mat owner makes more money from less machines.
All things being equal, with the proper water temp and detergent chemistry, it should not take longer than 10 minutes to clean a wash load of of average soils. Since most laundromat washers almost always have a built in pre-wash by default, the short wash cycle is really a second wash, thus one has probably 12 minutes or so total wash time. For some strange reason, SQ's new front loaders omitted a pre-wash cycle.
L.
Personally think this whole "steam" washer is a gimmick, especially since the unit runs on 120v. V-Zug washers also offer "steam" cleaing but those babies run on 220v/240v single and IIRC even two/three (cannot remember which), phase power.
One can heat several gallons of water pretty quickly with that much power, even winter Swedish tap cold water.
SQ front loaders are based on their commercial laundromat washers where turn over is key. Unlike say European laundromat washers that can take just as long to complete a cycle as their domestic cousins, American laundromat washers are designed for fast turnover so more customers can use them, and the mat owner makes more money from less machines.
All things being equal, with the proper water temp and detergent chemistry, it should not take longer than 10 minutes to clean a wash load of of average soils. Since most laundromat washers almost always have a built in pre-wash by default, the short wash cycle is really a second wash, thus one has probably 12 minutes or so total wash time. For some strange reason, SQ's new front loaders omitted a pre-wash cycle.
L.
launderess
Well-known member
P.S.
You can find Samsungs Steam washers on Fleabay, MIB.
You can find Samsungs Steam washers on Fleabay, MIB.
too long cycle times!
As a European user... I have to say, the FL'ers need more time to work on those stains cos they don't thrash the load round like TL's
I have not seen ANY wear and tear on my clothes, just perfectly clean results. That is something I never got when I used a Fridgidaire TL when livin in Mexico.
Pete flying the flag for us euro users!!!
As a European user... I have to say, the FL'ers need more time to work on those stains cos they don't thrash the load round like TL's
I have not seen ANY wear and tear on my clothes, just perfectly clean results. That is something I never got when I used a Fridgidaire TL when livin in Mexico.
Pete flying the flag for us euro users!!!
Tide,Zout and a KM 90 series TL ...perfectly clean clothes in under 40 minutes.
Pat flying the flag for all of us N.American TL users.
Pat flying the flag for all of us N.American TL users.
brisnat81
Well-known member
Coldpower Matic, Radiant Matic, Omo Matic, Surf Matic a 240v Miele and clean triple rinsed clothes with high level rinses washed at 60deg C 140def F in 50 minutes. Spun that dry that a load of towels is out of the dryer in 30 minutes.
Best of all, I dont have to replace my business shirts every 4 months because the collars dont fray anymore
No Chlorine Bleach, Oxygen Bleach or any other wash additives required.
LOL
Nathan
Best of all, I dont have to replace my business shirts every 4 months because the collars dont fray anymore
No Chlorine Bleach, Oxygen Bleach or any other wash additives required.
LOL
Nathan
brisnat81
Well-known member
Important Note
I dont use all those brands of detergent in one load, just an example of there being no Persil in sight.
I dont use all those brands of detergent in one load, just an example of there being no Persil in sight.
Maybe it depend on what you wash
IMHO the SQ's Short cycle time, should take care of clothing, towels and bedding from people that do not get truly grimey If you have a mechanic, farmer, or lots of kids in your family, really dirty or oily type laundry, maybe the long times are necessary? I have an amana T/L now that has served me well, but considering the SQ f/l one day. alr2903
IMHO the SQ's Short cycle time, should take care of clothing, towels and bedding from people that do not get truly grimey If you have a mechanic, farmer, or lots of kids in your family, really dirty or oily type laundry, maybe the long times are necessary? I have an amana T/L now that has served me well, but considering the SQ f/l one day. alr2903
toggleswitch
Well-known member
When a TL is used, the complete cycle time on a normal wash is around 30 minutes
Why isn't that long enough to clean a load in a FL,
To be effectuve a front-loader (with so little water) MUST have multiple rinses. These take time
1 minute fill
2 minute tumble
1 minute drain
1 minute spin
so 5 minutes MINIMUM for each additional rinse.
SO an average 3-rinse machine takes a minimum of ten minutes longer.
PLUS the flush rinse after the wash water drains
PLUS time to balance
PLUS ramping-up the spin speed in increments to reach the 1,000+ mark.
THIS ASSUMES A HOT WATER FILL.
If the machine starts with cold water and heats it, ADD HOURS.
Why isn't that long enough to clean a load in a FL,
To be effectuve a front-loader (with so little water) MUST have multiple rinses. These take time
1 minute fill
2 minute tumble
1 minute drain
1 minute spin
so 5 minutes MINIMUM for each additional rinse.
SO an average 3-rinse machine takes a minimum of ten minutes longer.
PLUS the flush rinse after the wash water drains
PLUS time to balance
PLUS ramping-up the spin speed in increments to reach the 1,000+ mark.
THIS ASSUMES A HOT WATER FILL.
If the machine starts with cold water and heats it, ADD HOURS.
mrcleanjeans
New member
front loader follies
I LOVE the old front loaders and LOATHE modern front loaders for that very thing,they take WAY too long,especially on trying to balance themselves.It's maddening.
I LOVE the old front loaders and LOATHE modern front loaders for that very thing,they take WAY too long,especially on trying to balance themselves.It's maddening.
OK, I've said this before and I'll say it again (and gansky1 has even said this to me on the phone) One needs to alter one's laundry habits with with modern front laoders. Europeans do it without thinking,t hey adjsuted long ago. Do a load of some sort every day or so--don't wait utnil you have piles and piles of Bob loads to do. Yes, it will take all day.
And another point, cmbo washer/dryers, except for Bendix, took at least 1.5 hours to wash & dry. the Lady Kenmore Combo owner next door did two to four loads daily for her family. There were many a time the washer was going after everyone had had their nightly baths/showers. Get with the program and stop b**ching. If ya can't dael with it, go bacfk to your shredding top loaders.
I"m like barpeter. I'm very sick & tiered of hunting down stains and pretreating them. I want the machine to deal effectively with the various stains automatically.
And another point, cmbo washer/dryers, except for Bendix, took at least 1.5 hours to wash & dry. the Lady Kenmore Combo owner next door did two to four loads daily for her family. There were many a time the washer was going after everyone had had their nightly baths/showers. Get with the program and stop b**ching. If ya can't dael with it, go bacfk to your shredding top loaders.
I"m like barpeter. I'm very sick & tiered of hunting down stains and pretreating them. I want the machine to deal effectively with the various stains automatically.
westytoploader
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 4,485
I'm a die-hard TL user...
And I will say this again: Modern top-loaders DON'T shred! Bob, perhaps there's some sort of defect in your '86 Lady K that you've overlooked, like a jagged portion in the tub/agitator? I've never had any problem or complaints with the '98 Kenmore or '03 Maytag Dependable Care, and there has been many a huge load stuffed into both machines. I want to see this question answered: If modern front-loaders have to have long cycle times for clean clothes, then how do the Westinghouse two-vane design and commercial double-loaders do it in a cycle comparable to that of a top-loader?
While I would love to forget about pre-treating stains, I'd just assume spray it, scrub it, throw it into the Frigidaire and get it done quickly!! Not really something I'd sacrifice an extra 1 1/2 hours for; I've pre-treated plenty of stains and it takes hardly any effort at all, so I don't really see any reason to bitch & whine about that. And while I know FL owners will get used to doing a load or two every day, the idea doesn't strike me as particularly convenient and to me, laundry would start to become more of a chore and less fun; saving up for a week and getting it all done in just a few hours is better, thank you very much! Considering that the modern front-loaders use hardly any water to begin with, I would much rather watch the rhythmic back-and-forth twisting of an agitator or the sloshing of a commercial or vintage FL.
--Austin
And I will say this again: Modern top-loaders DON'T shred! Bob, perhaps there's some sort of defect in your '86 Lady K that you've overlooked, like a jagged portion in the tub/agitator? I've never had any problem or complaints with the '98 Kenmore or '03 Maytag Dependable Care, and there has been many a huge load stuffed into both machines. I want to see this question answered: If modern front-loaders have to have long cycle times for clean clothes, then how do the Westinghouse two-vane design and commercial double-loaders do it in a cycle comparable to that of a top-loader?
While I would love to forget about pre-treating stains, I'd just assume spray it, scrub it, throw it into the Frigidaire and get it done quickly!! Not really something I'd sacrifice an extra 1 1/2 hours for; I've pre-treated plenty of stains and it takes hardly any effort at all, so I don't really see any reason to bitch & whine about that. And while I know FL owners will get used to doing a load or two every day, the idea doesn't strike me as particularly convenient and to me, laundry would start to become more of a chore and less fun; saving up for a week and getting it all done in just a few hours is better, thank you very much! Considering that the modern front-loaders use hardly any water to begin with, I would much rather watch the rhythmic back-and-forth twisting of an agitator or the sloshing of a commercial or vintage FL.
--Austin
Austin, I whole-heartedly understand and largely agree with you. Bu8t as I get older, I want my life to be a bit simpler and more automatic. And besides, it's not always easy for me to see stains and gets very tiresome. So many, via THS, have adopted pretty well to the longer cycle times. These are "real world" environments with busy families and such. That's where the rubber meets the road. It's just like at Ross' house with those incredibly dirty roasting pans. Toggle got impatitent with the 2nd load and scootched the timer past the water heat on the final rinse. I even fussed at him cuz he messed with the proper order of "things". I don't give a you know what about how long the load takes to run, if it's going to save me a lot of drugery dealing with those disgusting pans. I was even surprised, one pan came completely clean the first time & the 2nd was almost clean--2nd load fixed that I"m sure. It's the ol-fashioned power-clean based Kenmore, something like your portable WP. I was even impressed, I don't think my PotScrubber could have done the equivalent job.
mrcleanjeans
New member
It'll all come out in the wash
Not to be controversial,or "agitate" things,no pun intended,but I won't be adjusting my schedule for an all day wash session.I can breeze them thru the Amana TL in no time flat and they're clean.The washer will have to adjust to me,I won't ajust my life for a washer.
Not to be controversial,or "agitate" things,no pun intended,but I won't be adjusting my schedule for an all day wash session.I can breeze them thru the Amana TL in no time flat and they're clean.The washer will have to adjust to me,I won't ajust my life for a washer.
mistervain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 66
If the modern FL's filled up with enough water to begin with, there wouldn't be need for all these multiple rinses, steam (what a joke) and other nonsense, and consumers could have their 30-minute wash in a front loader.
launderess
Well-known member
Don't know about modern front loaders, but on Cottons my Miele W1070 uses about 5 or 6 gallons of water for the wash, and a bit more for each of the 5 rinses, including one deep rinse. So far even when using non HE detergent such as Cheer Free, water is clear by the fourth rinse.
L.
L.
mistervain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 66
I'm jealous
sudsmaster
Well-known member
If, as Laundress points out, Euro FL washer take as long as American FL washers to complete cycles, then the American 110 volt standard is not the issue.
In fact, most modern American 110 volt FL washers do not halt the timer in order to heat water. Instead they just limit the time of heating to a maximum of about 30 minutes, and continue tumbling during heating. Except, of course, for Sanitary cycles where the temp must reach over about 150F to earn that dubious distinction.
I do not mind that my Neptune takes 109 minutes for the longest possible cycle (extra heavy wash 34 min, plus a 15 min pre-soak, plus the maximum rinses (4), plus max extract 9 mins). Most cycles with 4 rinses take about 59 minutes. My laundry closet is in my main living area - I can cook, work on the computer, watch TV, etc while the laundry is going and it doesn't really tie up my day at home. I can also set the machine to start in the morning before I go to work and then be back at lunch to hang the laundry up to dry (providing it ever stops raining in Northern California). The spotless results with the 109 minute hot boosted wash makes it all worthwhile.
Of course, the Neptune tends to use more water - in some cases twice as much - as later American front loaders (25 gal per load average). I'm not claiming this makes it any better than newer FL's, but the Neptune is still the best fit for my laundry closet.
In fact, most modern American 110 volt FL washers do not halt the timer in order to heat water. Instead they just limit the time of heating to a maximum of about 30 minutes, and continue tumbling during heating. Except, of course, for Sanitary cycles where the temp must reach over about 150F to earn that dubious distinction.
I do not mind that my Neptune takes 109 minutes for the longest possible cycle (extra heavy wash 34 min, plus a 15 min pre-soak, plus the maximum rinses (4), plus max extract 9 mins). Most cycles with 4 rinses take about 59 minutes. My laundry closet is in my main living area - I can cook, work on the computer, watch TV, etc while the laundry is going and it doesn't really tie up my day at home. I can also set the machine to start in the morning before I go to work and then be back at lunch to hang the laundry up to dry (providing it ever stops raining in Northern California). The spotless results with the 109 minute hot boosted wash makes it all worthwhile.
Of course, the Neptune tends to use more water - in some cases twice as much - as later American front loaders (25 gal per load average). I'm not claiming this makes it any better than newer FL's, but the Neptune is still the best fit for my laundry closet.
Efficiency!!!
Longer wash times for Euro machines are all about gaining the highest merrits for European Efficiency Standards...simple as that...no gimmicks....all fuss n hype!!!
90% of my loads are all on a quick wash cycle with ariel washing powder & confort conditioner, no pre-treat...
42mins Wash Time = 40d wash, heated from cold, thats 18 mins wash, 15 mins rinse (3 x 5mins) and a 1600spin over 9 mins, all done, super efficient...
ALSO, Euro laundramat DONT have long wash times at all, cycle is done & dusted in 30 mins...
Longer wash times for Euro machines are all about gaining the highest merrits for European Efficiency Standards...simple as that...no gimmicks....all fuss n hype!!!
90% of my loads are all on a quick wash cycle with ariel washing powder & confort conditioner, no pre-treat...
42mins Wash Time = 40d wash, heated from cold, thats 18 mins wash, 15 mins rinse (3 x 5mins) and a 1600spin over 9 mins, all done, super efficient...
ALSO, Euro laundramat DONT have long wash times at all, cycle is done & dusted in 30 mins...
rayjay
Well-known member
Front Loaders
My Westinghouse LT800e from 1984, washed, sprayed rinsed, and two deep rinses in about 35-40 min, depending on the wash time selected. It tumbled one way, but it did have a lot more water in the tub. It did a wonderful job. The clothes always came out clean. The new ones work a lot different. Like Steve says, a lot less water, ramping up to the spin speed and balancing, and of course the water heating.
My Westinghouse LT800e from 1984, washed, sprayed rinsed, and two deep rinses in about 35-40 min, depending on the wash time selected. It tumbled one way, but it did have a lot more water in the tub. It did a wonderful job. The clothes always came out clean. The new ones work a lot different. Like Steve says, a lot less water, ramping up to the spin speed and balancing, and of course the water heating.
cleaning ability
What has made the modern F/L a success in cleaning, at least for stains, are modern detergents, a high concentration of said detergent (ratio of detergent to water) and longer wash times. OH yea, those multiple rinses are necessary to do much of the work, too.
T/L's have historically used a different wash methodology, emphasizing mechanical action from an era when soaps and detergents weren't so good and people scrubbed their clothes on washboards.
If you want to compare apples to apples, put the same concentration of detergent into a T/L and with the same cycle times as a F/L and I think you would see about the same results for stain removal and probably better results for soil removal--the later being the result of the larger volume water fill (of the T/L) will carry a heavier soil load.
The foregoing is essentially what has been done with the high efficiency T/L, which are now beginning to outscore the F/L's for cleaning. Hmmm.
Lets carry this thought one step further: If this theory is true, then the equivalent high concentrations of HE detergents in old F/L's, along with some additional cycle time, should make that Bendix or Rustinghouse, etc. an excellent all round wash performer.
What has made the modern F/L a success in cleaning, at least for stains, are modern detergents, a high concentration of said detergent (ratio of detergent to water) and longer wash times. OH yea, those multiple rinses are necessary to do much of the work, too.
T/L's have historically used a different wash methodology, emphasizing mechanical action from an era when soaps and detergents weren't so good and people scrubbed their clothes on washboards.
If you want to compare apples to apples, put the same concentration of detergent into a T/L and with the same cycle times as a F/L and I think you would see about the same results for stain removal and probably better results for soil removal--the later being the result of the larger volume water fill (of the T/L) will carry a heavier soil load.
The foregoing is essentially what has been done with the high efficiency T/L, which are now beginning to outscore the F/L's for cleaning. Hmmm.
Lets carry this thought one step further: If this theory is true, then the equivalent high concentrations of HE detergents in old F/L's, along with some additional cycle time, should make that Bendix or Rustinghouse, etc. an excellent all round wash performer.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Is it me, or are F/L manufacturers obsessed with unreasonably extending cycle times by any method possible..........
ah Mike thank you very much~~ now we know why EUROPE goes for the longer times "OFFICIALLY" and why the average person across the pond (are you average?, which I suppose beats being commom. --wink--) may not go for the time-stretch method either.
ah Mike thank you very much~~ now we know why EUROPE goes for the longer times "OFFICIALLY" and why the average person across the pond (are you average?, which I suppose beats being commom. --wink--) may not go for the time-stretch method either.
Toggle---don't you agree that our Frigidaire FL'ers clean very well, on the WHITES cycle, in about 55 minutes? I'll occasionally add another 6 minutes to the wash cycle if the load is uber-stained, but that still holds the cycle to an hour.
I love the FL format, but I'd go bananas if I had to wait 110-120 minutes for a cycle to be completed.
AND, since I now wash everything in cold water, heating times aren't an issue...
I love the FL format, but I'd go bananas if I had to wait 110-120 minutes for a cycle to be completed.
AND, since I now wash everything in cold water, heating times aren't an issue...
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