Look what Hobart made

[neptunebob]

Suds, I hope you do see the KA in a video. By the way, do you remember Calgonite? I wonder what happened to it?

Right now, we get good results from Sam's Club Member's Mark detergent.

 

[sudsmaster]

I don't really remember Calgonite. The water here is reasonably soft (about 4-5 grains) so no need for extra water softener over and above the STPP I use on a regular basis.

I've seen chlorinated dw detergent at supermarkets, still, usually the bargain brands.

Since there is no soap cup or dispenser for this machine, I'm wondering how much DW detergent to add in first place. It seems to use a fair amount of water per wash function (1-1/2 minutes of the faucet going flat out), so it may need more than the average DW, perhaps. And way more than my Bosch, which is very frugal with DW detergent and Jetdry.

By the way, I don't notice the sides of the cabinet getting warm, which is logical since they are separate from the tub. The lid does get warm, but like you say, not uncomfortably so.

I have turned up the thermostat on the gas water heater... it was down to less than 120F for the winter to help qualify for a gas bill rebate (all of $38). Now I've put it back up around 130-135, which may help with washing.

Not quite sure what the "Plate Warmer" function is all about. The thermostat keeps the heating element clicking off and on during a heated dry, so the air coming out of the machine isn't all that warm once the heat of the rinse water has gone. Perhaps the thermostat needs attention; it may be turning off the element at too low a temp.

 

[neptunebob]

Suds, I would start with a tablespoon of the Members Mark powder and adjust from there. If you don't use a powder I would use one Cascade gel pack or one Electrasol tab, they usually seem to be enough. "Plate warmer" is for when a happy housewife had an elegant dinner party and did not want to serve hot food on cold plates from the cabinet. Starting in the 70s this setting went away for being a waste of energy, we never used it. Calgonite was not a water softener but Calgon's (later Merck?) brand of dishwasher detergent. The "Spotmaker" looked like one of the villians on "Batman".

 

[sudsmaster]

OIC. Well, I added probably 2 TBS of Kirkland powder, and it seemed to work ok except for the dried on egg spatula. I might have some old chlorinated powder kicking around here, also. If necessary I could always run two wash functions, or pause the washer in the middle of the wash cycle to let the enzymes digest their supper.

I suppose Calgonite was pretty much the same chemicals as Cascade of the era. Aside from phazing out chlorine and bringing in enzymes, and some with rinse aid, I don't there is really much difference between DW detergent powders. It's basically washing soda, complex phosphate, sodium silicate, and enzymes or chlorinated TSP.

I went searching after work today for new hoses for the Hobart. No luck there, the faucet fitting is sufficiently ancient that there's not much out there. I could have hoses custom-made - there is a hose company in town. But what I may do is just splice in some extra length of hose as the washer end. The reason for this is that if I can get the hoses to extend from the washer about five feet, I can place it between the sink counter and the refrigerator, and not have to roll it to the sink every time I use it. It will be more out of the way there, as well.

It will be nice to be able to use this washer, as currently I wind up taking dirty dishes from the patio kitchen to the main kitchen, and then they don't aways find their way back once clean.

 

[neptunebob]

Another memory...

I used to think that the sprayer at the bottom looked like a blue crocodile. I notice yours has some rust, so maybe it could be blue powder coated like they do on "American Chopper".

Your machine looks a lot like the KitchenAid Briva dishwasher built into a sink that they sell now. I would like to have a Briva if I had a patio kitchen, but it is soooooooooo expensive! I think you will like this extra dishwasher when you entertain.

If you use Electrasol tabs, get the ones with the Jet Dry Powerball.

This is off the subject but how are KitchenAid dishwashers today? Is a new one as good as the ones in the past? They must be up to KD25 by now. Nep

 

[sudsmaster]

I've never used a modern KA dishwasher, but they seem to have satisfied owners. I like that all of them has stainless interiors - I dislike plastic tubbed dishwashers, after my bad experience with a MOL Frigidaire.

Alligator is a good description for the spray arm. I guess it was made heavy so the water pressure wouldn't blow it off the post, and so that no fastening mechanism or complex bearings would be needed. Interesting that modern dw's have such lightweight, if not flimsy, spray arms these days, but which seem to work ok.

You're right, this old KA/HB dw will be handy for entertainment. In fact, I expect it will be the major entertainment

I think Martha has a small stainless strainer with wire handles at Smearmart. I could probably bend the wire handles to form a hook to fasten it to the upper rack, for dispensing DW detergent.

Powder coating could work to renew the look of the spray arm. Although I'm not sure how long it would last in a hot alkaline environment.

Once I get the hoses extended I can move the dw closer to the wall for operation, and rig some sort of lid retainer which will make loading/unloading a lot easier. Right now I have to balance the lid on my shoulder as I reach in. Once I get the hinges restored, of course, that will no longer be a problem (I hope).

 

[sudsmaster]

PS-I am seriously considering replacing the modern KA stainless fridge in the second kitchen with the 1940's vintage GE fridge I have waiting for a paint job and new door gasket (I posted photos of it a month or two ago). I think the KD-2P and the GE fridge would look very compatible together.

I am also planning on measuring the average energy usage of the old GE. If it's not much higher than that of the modern KA, then that's a plus. I figure with the small freezer, lack of auto defrost, and thick walls, it might be close.

 

[panthera]

it might be less

Given all the little things which are continuously going on in a modern refrigerator - timers, heaters, electronic controls - I wouldn't be surprised if the Monitor Top were more efficient. Putting the compressor at the top sure took care of the "heat rising through the cooled cabinet" problem.
Only thing to watch out for is that the insultion is really dry. When wet it loses its value completely.
Let us know - but I bet they will look great together.

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks Panthera, but it's not a Monitor Top. The compressor is under the compartment, like most modern fridges. It is however a nice looking appliance, nearly mint interior, and with some sanding, primer, and a good coat of paint the exterior will look great as well.

The door gasket is a must-change. The old one is nearly in pieces.

 

[neptunebob]

Well, do you have the Hobart working yet?

I want to know! Also, a friend of my mother's had a GE fridge like that up until 10 years ago. She then replaced it with a cheap, boring, and oridinary refrigerator-freezer because she didn't have freezer space and didn't want to shop every day. I was still working. I was sad to find that out, if I had known I would have advised her to buy a separate freezer. The old GE was distinctive.

P.S. Do you have Electrasol tabs with Jet Dry Power Ball in your area? They would be perfect in our KA.

 

[sudsmaster]

Bob,

I already got it working... ran a test load and posted the after photo... Did you miss it?

Right now it's apart again, at least the back. I removed the hoses to take them to a hose shop to see if they could make up longer hoses. The answer was... sort of... they didn't have the proper fittings. They said they'd have to re-use the existing fittings to do the job, and I thought if that's the case I'll just do it myself. I did buy a couple of unions and some new hoses (12 feet each!). At the very least I'll just splice in a few feet of new hose at the machine end, so I can position the washer where I want it.

I did make some progress on the hinge replacement. I located suitable stainless steel billet stock from which to machine them. Next I have to dissassemble the lid to get the hinges off so I can measure them carefully.

It would help if someone with the same, or similar machine, could chime in and describe what the stock hinges look like, on the spring side. That part is broken off both the existing hinges. I am trying to figure out what the original design was, but I have questions.

Anyway, mechanically the machine seems to run just fine. It's just a few odds and ends to attend to at this point.

 

[sudsmaster]

Today most of my time was spent replacing the sink faucet in the main kitchen... why do they have to make these things so complicated? Anyway, it's in now, a giant goosneck affair that allows a full 18" below the faucet tip. Nice spray, too. Single side handle control with ceramic cartridge valving.

Anyway, then I was able to spend some time with "Bart". I decided not to fool with the hoses just yet... instead I took apart the hinges and drew up a design for a replacement. I more or less figured out what to do with the missing section... it will run dual springs down to an existing adjuster on the hinge mount. The back end of the hinge will also act as a stop, to keep the lid from falling backwards.

Oh, and I ran that eggy spatula through the Bosch. It didn't do any better than the KD-2P in removing the residue. A good scrubbing by hand did the trick, though. So my faith is restored in vintage dishwashing!

 

[sudsmaster]

Here's a look at the hinge I have designed to replace the broken ones on the dishwasher lid...

 

[sudsmaster]

Here's a semi-transparent isometric view of same part...

 

[chachp]

Sudsmaster,

Thought you might like to have this to go with your cool dishwasher.

http://cgi.ebay.com/8-5X11-AD-1962-...232394968QQcategoryZ13596QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[sudsmaster]

Chachp,

Cool ad! I shudder to think what a typical kicthen would look like after someone managed to leave the lid open and defeat the safety switch.... quite drenched!

 

[sudsmaster]

MANY THANKS TO STEVED!!!

Many thanks to SteveD for sending me a mint original copy of the service manual for the KA KD-2P dishwasher. It's a great help to figuring out how to work on this machine.

I'm also a little proud that the hinge design I posted last night pretty much duplicates the general shape of the original missing broken off pieces, which are pictured in the service manual, as well. I had deduced that there would be dual springs for each hinge, and also that there needed to be about a 1/4" relief in the lower back of the hinge to allow the lid to be raised a full 90 degrees vertical. The service manual confirms the dual hinge layout, as well as the relief.

And here's a slightly revised version of the replacement hinge, with fillets on the upper and leading edges, so Missus doesn't catch her lace cuffs on the sharp edges when loading up a another place setting ;-). Today I got an ok from my boss to work on this in the shop off the clock, so I'll be finalizing the CNC code tonight and giving it a go in the shop soon.

 

[cehalstead]

egg on spatula

I have that problem with my '98 Maytag, too. Seems to come off better when I use chlorinated detergent. If you have a BigLots near you, their store brand of DW detergent is still chlorinated and very much smells like original Cascade (too bad it's not green....). I remember Calgonite. It was one of three brands we used in the early 60's...Calgonite, Cascade or Electra-Sol.

 

[sudsmaster]

I found some old-style dishwasher detergent at a local Mexican grocery. I'll give that a try once the Hobart is up and running again.

 

[customline]

Here's that soap cup

Suds, sorry for getting to you so late but here's what my soap cup looks like on my D&M style '57 Westinghouse portable dishwasher with bakelite impeller. Congrats on your Hobart.