Look what Hobart made

[Cybrvanr]

Totally cool! I always wondered when Hobart started building Kitchenaid home dishwashers. This one looks like one of the earliest models. Definitely a piece of history. it's in such wonderful shape!!!

It's amazing how fast dishwasher technology moved in the early years!

 

[sudsmaster]

I had an opportunity to start the Hobart inspection/restoration process today.

First I put down a double layer of corrugated cardboard down on the brick floor to protect the finish. Then I removed all the racks, spray arm (heavy), and filters. I gently lay the machine on its back.

Underneath is a galvanized steel pan, open at the corners. About six screws held it to the base, and was easily removed.

Underneath I could see the blower, pump motor, and timer, valves and other controls. My time was taken up going to the hardware store and looking for bigger wheels. The current casters are 1.25" dia, on threaded 5/16" stems. I'm planning to upgrade them to 2-1/3 or 3" wheels, but these sizes come with 3/8" dia shafts, so I'll either have look for ones with smaller shafts, or drill out the sheet metal under the machine. I hesitate to do that because it's porcelain coated, and I don't like to break that protection if I can avoid it. There's a caster store in town that I'll check in with before I start surgery.

It does look like the rod from the Start switch isn't working right - at least it doesn't move with the switch. That will take some more work - I'll probably have to remove the handle assembly to get at the source of that issue.

I didn't get a chance to take photos, but I'll try to get some in the next few days. The pump itself is kind of interesting. It looks like it shoots water up through its central shaft, but that's all I can figure out at the moment. It actually looks like the impeller housing is ABS or some similar sturdy plastic, not bakelight, so I'm thinking the actual impeller might be nylon or other fracture-resistant material. At this point it will be some major work taking the impeller/pump housing apart to get at the impeller, so I'm putting that off until I can do some more diagnostics on what's not working right (translation - turn it on while all the access panels are off, and observe).

That's all for now. Have to get some rest.

 

[gregm]

nylon ???

I doubt the impeller housing is plastic, possible I guess, but I would much rather guess bakelite (very easy to break and shatter but heatproof) whereas this is from '57. I would like to think the actual impeller is metal but I honestly don't remember when I had my '63 apart.

 

[sudsmaster]

Bottoms Up

Here's a shot of the nether region of the Hobart/KA...

From left to right, the shiny cylinder is the air blower/heater, then in the middle is the pump with a strange chamber grafted onto it. To the right is some sort of junction box or solenoid. And just to the left of that, is a black painted cast iron tubular extension from the pump assembly, with a vintage lacquered or glue-covered cork stuck in it! I really wonder what's up with that...

Notice the nicely preserved full porcelain enamel finish inside and out. No cheesing out for Hobart in '57!

 

[sudsmaster]

And it's a yo, ho, blow the man down...

A shot of the pristine heater element and blower fan.

 

[sudsmaster]

And here is a look at what I'm calling the Drain Jar. The tube running off the top of it, I think that's going to the drain hole you can see in previous pictures on the interior of the washer. Then there is a side tube, with what looks in this pic like a white rubber seal, going off to the pump (I think).

Off to the right you can see some springs, a aolenoid, and assorted cams and levers, that seem to operate a valve to switch between recirculating and draining.

Good news... I was able to locate the part that connects to the sink faucet and quick connects to the fitting on the end of the Hobart hose. So I might actually be able to hook it up and see just what it's up to, under power, with a water source.

I'll be righting the machine later, and taking the back panel off, for another view of these innards.

 

[sudsmaster]

PS-The original wheels are 1-1/4" diameter rubber casters, on 5/16" threaded stems. They are fine for smooth floors, but not good on the brick patio surface.

So I have on order, some 2-1/2" diameter wheels, also with 5/16" threaded stems, from the local caster emporium (yes, there is such a place in town!). Two will have "brakes", which I'll put in the front (the patio surface slants gently away from the countertop area. Good for drainage/hosing it down periodically, bad if stuff wants to roll). It will take a couple of weeks to get them, but it will be preferable to drilling out the existing holes in the porcelain steel to accomodate the more readily available 3/8" threaded stems.

 

[sudsmaster]

Bart Lives!!!

Well, other than waking up late this morning, and thinking it was really Easter Sunday and I was late for brunch, it's been a good day.

After assuaging a caffeine headache with a cup o', I venture out into the patio kitchen for another go at Bart.

Removing about 20 screws revealed the backside of the works. In there I could see that someone had replaced the water valve. Good.

I purged the hot water tap - only about 10 feet away from the water heater - and hooked up the quick connect to the kitchen faucet. Then I inserted only the cast iron spray arm, plugged the cord in, and set the control to wash. It filled nicely, but drained as soon as it started washing. Which made for a very short wash cycle.

Closer inspection showed that while the solenoid to switch the valve between wash and drain was working, quite audibly, the valve itself was stuck. I was able to loosen it up manually, and squirted some WD-40 on the works for good measure. After working it back and forth a bit more, I was able to confirm that it worked under solenoid/spring action well enough to proceed.

I was able to run a full wash cycle with appropriate steps. These are much as Greg has already described:

1) Simultaneous fill/drain for purging.
2) Fill and then wash with no drain.
3) Drain (with wash pump still going).
4) Fill for 1st rinse.
5) Rinse.
6) Drain.
7) Fill for second rinse.
8) Second rinse.
9) Drain (might be simultaneous with second rinse, not sure).
10) Heated air dry.

At first I didn't think the heater blower was working, but either it has a thermostat for the fan, or the fan bearing grease just needed to warm up a bit. The fan started turning with a relatively gentle flow of air through the body of the machine.

Pics to follow.

 

[sudsmaster]

Bart's backside revealed

A shot of the dw with back access panel(s) removed...

 

[sudsmaster]

Wash Drain valve

This is the one that was sticking. You can see the somewhat rusty springs that help the valve move to proper position - the solenoid is connected to the upper spring, which in turn moves the valve lever up, or down, which in turn pushes the valve stem rod in, or out.

In this photo, the valve cam and valve rod are to the right, the solenoid to the upper right, and the springs to the far right.

 

[sudsmaster]

More detail

Here is a closeup of the valve cam and valve stem. The stem looks like it's stainless - good thing.

 

[sudsmaster]

Looks like someone replaced the fill valve

Not sure if the galvanized steel fittings are original or not, but it all works.

The water does tend to sputter slightly out of the fill tube under full water flow (faucet wide open). So I might make a little extra extension to help keep the drips in.

 

[sudsmaster]

Discussion

I haven't yet timed a full cycle, but it can't be much more than 30 minutes.

The water spray action is very forceful - you can feel it pounding on the underside of the lid. It's forceful enough that a little seeps through the gasket, although I imagine that some rubber conditioner might soften it up so that it seals better. I can see why Robert decided to put a plastic lid on his machine. I may do the same with this one, although constructing the labryinth around the air vent by the handle will be challenging.

The machine as is will work and I plan on washing a load of dishes in it soon. What it still needs to be have done include:

1) Fix the start switch/lever. It's in constant start mode now, which means once you lock the lid and the timer is set to wash and the thing is plugged in, it will go, regardless of the position of the start switch.

2) Fix the lid hinges. Looks like there are fittings on the upper cabinet back for strong springs to hold the lid in an upright position. Those springs are missing, as is the rear part of the hinges that would hold the springs and also keep the lid from tilting too far backwards. The hinges are simple cast pot metal, chromed. I plan on replacing them with machined billet 304 stainless (or 6061 wrought aluminum), as soon as I can measure a hinge, design a new pair, and get some off-the-clock time on the machine tools at work. They do not look like a difficult project, fairly straight forward.

3) Replace washer in fill hose 3/4 fitting. Simple. Old one probably deteriorated under hot water flow. I may add a sediment screen if one is not already there.

4) Locate missing internal parts: soap cup, and upper side racks. Can anyone help finding those?

Summary - this one is a keeper, and will be the machine that I use in this second patio kitchen. If I get a plastic window lid, it will be great entertainment, as well.

 

[toggleswitch]

Very nice machine.
Much luck!

 

[appnut]

Congratulations Rich. They are awesome. I cannot speak from actual experience with KAs of this vintage (very limited when I was in high school), but the later models when starting the dry cycle, the blower didn't come on immediately after the final drain period finished. It waited a couple of minutes and then started blowing. And please take pics of the load of dishes ya wash!!

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks, Toggle and Bob, and everyone else, too.

I finished all the repairs I could manage without machining new hinges. It took me all afternoon and evening.

This included:

1) New washer for the fill hose - I used a screened filter, just for extra precaution. However, I may live to regret that, since I later found that putting the rear panel back on is a real SOB. More about that later.

2) Fixed the start switch. This turned out to be quite simple. The hook on the end of the start rod had slipped out of the groove in start button. It was a simple matter of remounting the handle front panel. Of course, I had to polish the chrome with Brasso, first.

The start switch function is interesting. At the end of the cycle, the machine timer goes to "OFF". If you close the lid and lock the handle, and then press the Start button, it mechanically pushes the timer to "WASH" and starts the cycle.

3) Checked the heater/fan operation. No problems there. Heater and fan seem to be working properly.

4) Re-routed drain and fill hoses. They were not routed correctly to begin with, and re-routing them gave another four or so inches in length.

5) Added a hose extension to the combination fill/drain faucet fitting, so the drains won't splash all over the place (it's a shallow sink with a high arched faucet, great for filling tall pots but bad for splashing).

I did another dishless run to check the times. I'll post that in another message.

On the back panel, it's very nicely made porcelain coated steel. But it's also bowed outward, which makes it smaller than the flanges it's supposed to go around. I finally got it on by pushing against the middle of the panel while installing it, with the washer against the countertop (protected by a 2x4). By taking out some of the bow, this opened up the width of the panel and allowed it to slide into place.

 

[sudsmaster]

Cycle Times

Here are the cycle times for the KD-2P dishwasher. Times are approximate.

Function Function Time Total time
=============================================================
Fill/drain/purge 1 1
Fill 1.75 2.75
Wash 6.75 9.5
Drain 0.75 10.25
Pause 0.75 11
Fill 1.5 12.5
Rinse 1.5 14
Drain 0.75 14.75
Pause 0.75 15.5
Fill 0.5 16
Rinse 1.5 17.5
Drain 1 18.5
Pause 0.5 19
Heated Fan Dry 22.5 41.5

So... under 20 minutes for a complete wash cycle, then another 23 minutes to do a heated forced air dry.

 

[sudsmaster]

The Badge of Bart

Not just another stinkin' badge!

 

[sudsmaster]

Wiring Diagram

It's on the inside of the devilish rear panel...
.
.
.

 

[toggleswitch]

Thanks for the info

 

[sudsmaster]

Another tidbit...

The low location of the timer dial on this machine probably means it's not very child-proof. Once the machine is in a wash cycle, one can turn the dial forward all the way to off, with the solenoid clicking the valve one way or the other as it progresses through the functions. The dial is only locked when it's in the "OFF" position and the Start button has not been pushed downward. Even with the handle unlocked, if the dial is past "OFF", then it can be turned through the functions. And, as one can see from the wiring diagram, the solenoid is fully powered up whenever the machine is plugged in, so you'll hear it activate one way or the other as the dial is rotated, even with the lid wide open. Too easy for a toddler to fool with.

Still trying to figure out how to advance the timer to the "Plate Warm or Dry" position without triggering the solenoid (other than unplugging the machine). I guess it doesn't hurt the machine to have the solenoid activated, but it sure makes a racket.

That aside, the cycles on this machine give one a glimpse of a time when the engineers were free to design something with only one purpose - to wash dishes. They used plenty of water, lots of water pressure, and quick (and hopefully effective) cycle times to get the job done. No worries about toddlers or water consumption or energy consumption. A portable machine makes some sense since it can have a taller tub than an under-counter machine with similar mechanical components. I could see a Hobart or KA portable DW of this vintage doing yeoman duty in a small restaurant, cafe, or diner...

 

[sudsmaster]

Per Bob's Request

Finished results of first load of dishes/cups/saucers/bowls/glasses...

Everything came out very clean except for dried on egg on a plastic spatula. I don't think 6-1/2 minutes was enough time for a modern enzyme detergent to do its thing... Might have to go find an older chlorinated dw detergent for this machine.

 

[sudsmaster]

Here's a shot of the tap hookup, with the first rinse drain water...

 

[neptunebob]

Guess what - We had this machine!

I just happened to look at thread - when I was a boy we had this machine for several years. It was my aunt's when she had her kitchen remodeled with a built in dishwasher and we inherited this one. I do remember it kind of roared and everything came out clean. We kids often rolled it around and rode on top of it. You are right about the timer knob not being childproof - I messed up the programming more than once because I was the one who thought turning it was fun to do.

My folks had this KA from about 1962 (before me!) until about 1972 when my mother gave it to a friend of hers. Then we got another portable dishwasher from another neighbor, a Kenmore that looked like the one in "Oh So Brown". We left that one with the house in 1975.

One thing that happned is that sometimes the gasket in the back would get icky, probably becuase us kids liked to throw drinks against the lid. Just use a lot of mild detergent like Dawn or Ivory to get it clean. That will probably help soften it up too.

 

[neptunebob]

By the way, if you look at the "Pics and a question" thread, there is a link for a KitchenAid in a music video.

 

[steved]

Service manual

Suds, send me your mailing address and I will send you a service manual for the KD-2P. Things will be so much clearer for you after you see it....... figure it as an Easter bunny treat! SteveD

 

[sudsmaster]

Bob, cool that you remember this dishwasher.

I tried the link but can't get any of the videos to work.

 

[sudsmaster]

Steve,

Thanks so much. Email on its way.

Rich

 

[neptunebob]

Looking for appliances in music videos - do I need to get a

Suds, I just tried the link and it worked on my computer. It takes about a minute for the video to load your V-Spot and you do have to click on "We are One Tonight". Wait, you might have to register on VH1.com (that also lets you make comments on their message board too - I'm the one who says "This band needs a bath!") There's usually a commercial for a Pantene or an acne solution before the video. I think if you register on vhi.com the first screen it might work. While you're at it you might want to look at "Stars", it a video that takes place underwater.

My father was a dentist at the VA and my mother was a nurse who worked in central sterile supply in the Navy and they thought a dishwasher would sterilize everything, at least some of the way, I mean even us kids knew about "Don't touch that, it's sterile!". I do think we didn't catch as many colds as our neighbors. Also, I find that since we grew up with a dishwasher, living without one is depressing, I mean, dishes aren't "Squeaky clean" when washed by hand.

I do remember the machine being hot on the outside, though not dangerously so. I do think we had more rust on our unit too. Mother used Cascade, or more often, Calgonite because it was made by a Pittsburgh company, it was less expensive, and it kept the Spotmaker away. I don't think they make Calgonite anymore.

Oh, one mroe thing, in the video with the dishwasher (about halfway through it) a little later there is a scene of a kitchen that looks somewhat like yours. Happy KA washing. Nep.

P.S. try this link to register, just so you don't end up looking for appliances in videos like I did.

http://www.vh1.com/interact/my_account/signin.jhtml

 

[sudsmaster]

Bob,

I did have to register, and started the video ok. Then about halfway through I paused it and it wouldn't restart. Then I had to tend to other chores (like setting up a new computer for work... I've forgotten how complex that can be... turning a Thiz Linux POS Fry's box into a W2K machine... mystery integrated display, LAN, and audio drivers... lol...).

Anyway, I'll try again later in the week.