Looking for "new" used vehicle opinions again...

[dustin92]

I'm currently driving a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan, and have been very happy with it, except for the gas mileage, getting typically 22-24 mpg on the highway, and have actually gotten 25 out of it once or twice, but I guess I'm spoiled with cars getting 30 ish mpg and want a change- I'm currently averaging 19.5 (combined city and highway driving), and it feels awful dumping that much gas in it! For as much as I actually use the van to haul (appliances or people), I'd rather lose the 7 passenger seating ability and borrow my Dad's truck if I need to haul an appliance. I've been browsing for a while now, hoping to stay in the $2500-$4500 range, so I will probably end up with something with some miles on it (up to 200,000 or so really doesn't scare me) and needs to be good on gas (at least a few mpg better than my van, ideally 30+) I had a 2003 Chevy Impala before I bought the van, and I loved it- got easily 30-32 mpg. It hadn't been maintained before I got it, so it had it's share of problems (IMO, all related to lack of maintenance) and by 194,000 miles the transmission was going out. Anyway, I've been looking at the 2007+ Dodge Caliber (my only reservation about it would be the cvt transmission, not sure if I'd like it, and sounds like they can be expensive if something goes wrong), 2007+ Honda Fit (might be a little small, but great on gas), 2004+ Chevy Impala (self explanatory, loved my 2003), 1999-2000 Honda Civic (older than what I'd ideally want, but from what I've seen, 2001 and up have a lot of transmission problems, would need to be in really good condition and low mileage), 2003+ Saturn Ion (really questioning this, my Dad says saturns are poor quality), 2004+ Chevy Malibu, and various offerings from Toyota and Nissan. I'm pretty open to looking at anything, but it needs to get around 30 mpg or better, and needs to be an automatic... I've driven a manual once in my life and that's enough for me.. No desire to do it again. 4 doors is pretty much necessary, and I really want all options aside from leather. Sunroof would be nice, needs to have cruise and A/C, power windows a major plus, cd player etc. I'm not in a huge hurry to find another vehicle, my van runs good and doesn't have any mechanical problems so I can take my time. Any opinions or input would be appreciated!

 

[gusherb]

Around 20 MPG is about right for the Grand Caravan. 25 on the highway also sounds about right. We had a 1996 Grand Caravan with the Mitsubishi 3.0 Liter V6 when I was growing up.

Honestly with how cheap gas is, is it really that big a deal to fill it up? Maybe you can hold off on getting something more fuel efficient for when gas does go back up and stays up? and for a high profile vehicle 20 MPG average is actually not that bad.

I would avoid the Ion unless it has the 4spd or a stick. The CVT's in those were horrible for reliability.

The Calibers CVT is actually Nissan sourced, and Nissan CVT's are pretty reliable so any major issues with that are less likely, though I'd still err on the side of caution not get one with high miles or older. Or just not get one at all.

 

[dustin92]

I had a 1987 Caravan with the 3.0 v6 as my first vehicle- I never actually calculated the mpg but it seemed to do much better than my 2005 with the 3.8. I thought with it being newer and all the technological improvements over the years it would do better, not worse. Sure I could wait until gas prices go back up, but I assume prices of gas saving vehicles will as well, and I may have less chance of selling my gas guzzler. Right now I'm at 130,000 miles on my van (which I would still consider low mileage), and it's just starting to get some surface rust spots, I don't want to put a whole lot more miles on it and have it rusted out and looking like most of the Caravans around here (most from this body style 2001-2007 have the rocker panels rusted through or completely gone and lots of rust along the bottom of the doors) mine only has a little surface rust starting, and 90% of that can be easily polished off (the van is silver so it really shows, a 1/8" paint chip that is starting to rust might have a 2" rust streak below it, but is easily removed)

 

[gusherb]

Oh I see. I assumed yours had the 3.3, which I feel like should achieve better highway mileage. (Upper 20s maybe). Before the '96 my parents had an '87 Plymouth Grand Voyager with the 3.0 as well. I really don't remember a whole ton about it except that it blew white smoke since it was new. It again always averaged around 20 MPG.

Vehicles didn't really start making great strides in MPG until the 2010 model years came out. before that from around 2004-2009 I think they were pretty bad actually. Late 90s early 2000s vehicles in general seemed to do ok, it was when automakers started upping the engine sizes and horsepower dramatically that fuel economy suffered. By 2010 they had finally started implementing changes and tech that would increase the MPG of those bigger, higher power engines that they had introduced in the mid 2000s.

 

[washer111]

Contrary to the advice above, try and offload the car with the higher fuel consumption NOW will they are still more desirable with the low fuel prices. Demand for the "econoboxes" will have slumped (in relative terms) by now, and you should be able to get a better price than when fuel prices rise in price again.

I'm not familiar with the U.S. choices of vehicles - but am aware that many are GM-based in some way, shape or form.

The Honda Civics of the late 90's might be an option, although if you want the space to haul appliances, but crave economy, why not look for the Gen 2 or 3 (XV10 and XV20) Toyota Camry, specifically the *wagon* models?
I don't know what trim levels were offered in those wagons in the USA, but in Australia we had the choice of 4cyl (good for city) or the V6 (good for highway). The V6 also powered the luxury Toyota Vienta sedans and wagons, which was not sold in the USA, but are equivalent to the Camry XLE trim level - and is a Camry in all respects aside from the badge.

The "sludge" concerns in the Camry was overblown, more than anything.
As usual, you'd want to check the maintenance history and look out for the usual red flags. Checking under the oil cap yourself is the prudent thing to do, and check for smoke and other issues. Japanese cars like the slightly older Hondas and Toyotas like to sip a little oil in-between changes, so be aware of that. Obviously, this advice is good for ANY car you buy, not just a model with "known issues."

The European option is also there, although what exactly suits your taste and budget I don't know, given the price disparity between the USA and Australia. The late 90's was just when Ford took over control of Volvo, so you could pick up a late-model *real* Volvo, safe as houses and reasonable economy (and come in Estate versions! Wink wink).
Same with Saab coming into the hands of GM, those too came in estate versions, but have the added complication of a turbo-charger, and were also "known sludgers" back in the day, particularly models produced right after GM took the reigns.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Have you calculated how much fuel you'll save by going from 20 to 30 mpg?

If you drive 20K miles per year and get 20mpg, you use 1000 gallons per year. At $2.00 per gallon that's $2,000. A car getting you 30mpg would cost you $1334 for gas. If gas jumps to $3.00 per gallon you'd be paying $3,000 and $2,000 respectively for fuel.

That translates to saving $1.82 per day at $2.00 per gallon and $2.75 at $3.00. Of course, if you drive fewer miles per year your savings would be less.

From that savings you'd have to subtract all the costs of looking for, obtaining , and maintaining your new car. then see how that number compares to the costs of keeping your current one.

Someone please check my numbers; I'm not sure I'm awake yet.

Jim

 

[vacerator]

vehicles, fuel mileage, etc;

Dustin, Chrysler has improved mileage of all their engines since 2010.
If you want a good used van, nothing wrong with a Chrysler. As the new Pacifica replaces the Town & Country, the old body style should be quite affordable.
Dodge will continue to sell the Caravan.
As for longevity quality, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are hard to beat, but I think no parts in any vehicle made today are as durable as in 2003. Except Lexus, but you pay for that.
I've heard of wheel bearing wear on Hondas before 70,000 miles, and even worn transmission clutch packs.
My neighbor drives a Nissan Quest which is not nearly new, and it never gives her a problem.
Shop for value. In the space, comfort, and economy you want or need.
That may even be A Chevy Traverse.

 

[xraytech]

Another car you may want to consider is a Buick LaCrosse. I'm sure the first generation 2005-2009 ones are quite reasonable in price, and with luck you may be able to find a low mileage senior owned one.
Not sure what engine went in those, but I'd assume same as the Impala

 

[vacerator]

Sam,

Yes, reasonable, and the same W platform out of Oashawa as an Impala.
We have an '03, and an'07. 3800, and 3500 V6's.
The older has had a coolant pump at 11,00 miles, a belt tensioner after that, and a new catalyst because the ethanol concentration was increased courtesy of Bush.
Just replaced the coolant pump on the '07 @ 90,000 miles. Exactly the same as my '98 Malibu 3.1 V6. other than that, just a muffler, and the usual brakes and tires. The remote starter no longer works.

 

[dustin92]

My Impala, being a base model, had the (slightly) smaller 3400 engine rather than the larger 3800. I've heard the 3800's are more reliable, but likely worse on gas. I had all the common problems with the 3400, intake gaskets (twice), head gaskets, clogged up the catalytic converter, stripped out rocker arm bolts, but it never let me down, I always made it home, even when It blew the head gasket 200 miles from home, made it home with little to no coolant left, but the temp gauge never went in the red zone!

 

[joeypete]

Funny, talking about the gas mileage reminded me of a news clip I saw. It was back in 1996 when the rounded Caravan design came out. The woman mentioned how it was a gas hog...but no one noticed because gas was so cheap! lol. I really liked that design...thought it was pretty cool.

 

[norgeway]

Buy some sort of

CHRYSLER product!

 

[vacerator]

Dustin,

The 3400 was a bored out 3.1 V6 of the original 2.8 V6 design. 60 degree cylinder bank.
The 3800 90 degree is way more reliable but still suffered some intake manifold EGR tube melting problems through to the series III, which finally got an aluminum one.
The series II had a steel liner sleeve in the EGR passage which helped.
The other coolant leak issue is the heater lines which pass through the serpentine belt tensioner mounting.
As for fuel economy, the 3800 cruises at 65 mph at 1750 rpms. Mine still averages around 25. original spark plugs too.

 

[robbinsandmyers]

In all honesty the best advice I can give you if you dont mind buying used older cars is find yourself a low mileage (100,000)1983-1985 Mercedes 300D or 1990-1993 Volvo 240. You can find real clean ones for $2500.00. These are two of the best cars built EVER and they are reliable as nails and get decent fuel MPG. I prefer the Benz because Im diesel across the board. If you want Japanese find a clean 4cyl Camry with around 100,000 miles. Ive owned Benz diesels 30+ years and theyre tanks. My parents had a 1990 Volvo 240 wagon they bought with 132k in 2000 and sold it 10 years later with 200k to a friend. In all that time they only put an exhaust, brakes, and a fuel pump relay on it and two sets of tires. My friend drove it from Hamden CT to NJ 3 times a week for 3 years before its original trans lost overdrive at 275k so he sold it to a mutual friend. Its STILL going with the bad trans, rear axle bushings blown out and leaking windshield. No way in hell a domestic made 26 year old 4 owner car would ever do that. Stay away from the Big 3 trust me. My 2000 Golf TDI with 200k has given me yeoman service the 13 years I bought it from the original owner with 80k and shows no signs of stopping even after getting wrecked TWICE. My 1984 Mazda diesel truck with 579,000 is just as great. Only domestic cars I'll ever own are classics.

 

[xraytech]

I've had 3 Park Avenues with the series II 3800 v6 they all averaged 24-25 mpg
My Lucerne with a series III got about 22 mpg

 

[fan-of-fans]

I have a 2001 Malibu with just under 100k and it has been very reliable. I've had a few electrical items stop working, but that's expected at this age. The gas mileage is excellent at around 32 with the V6.

I would stay away from Saturns because parts are getting hard to find.

I know in your price range, you can't really, but I'd look for something late 2000s up, cars have come a long way in the last few years with safety features and electronics that I wouldn't really want anything before 2006 or so, because I'd wish I'd gotten something more up to date. Especially since I keep my cars for a long time.

Actually, right now I'm interested in a minivan, I like my car's gas mileage though it is just too small to move anything in. I'm waiting to see if the current generation of Chrysler's get cheaper after this new model is released. Right now they haven't depreciated enough for me to consider a used one. I'd go after a jellybean one too if it had all the features I'm looking for and low mileage.

 

[vacerator]

Mercedes are wonderfull,

until you have to fix them. Parts are very exspensive, especially for vintage.

 

[washer111]

^ Not Necessarily

At least my experience with the BMW says some parts are pretty cheap. Others not so much so (but are usually computer-sensors etc that "shouldn't" break).

The labour charge is what kills at the end of the day. I'd heartily recommend anyone here with the time and space invest in the needed tools to do work on cars themselves. Its rewarding, challenging and saves you a ton.

 

[dustin92]

Anyone know anything about the 2004-2006 Toyota Prius? Also looking at those, the gas mileage would be fabulous (40-50 mpg!) but I'm a little hesitant of the whole hybrid system. Can the car still be driven if the hybrid system or battery goes on the blink? I've been browsing Craigslist and found a 2005 (or was it a 2006?) with 200k+ miles, but no mechanical problems and the battery pack has been replaced.