My poor old, abused heart can't take this:
Looking toward '08
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fnelson487
Well-known member
YIKES!!!!
What a scary thought!!!!
What a scary thought!!!!
Not too far fetched----------
After reading the article "American Rapture" in the December issue of Vanity Fair, it would appear that the "evangelicals" are already in charge. So much for seperation of church and state! Falwell's statements such as "we often call the White House and talk to Karl Rove" "everyone takes OUR calls" are at the very least alarming. Then he goes on to say "We talk to each other DAILY and meet in Washington probably twice a month"-------------and then there are the secretive goings on of the "Arlington Group" and even worse-----"The Council for National Policy".
American's at large had better WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!
After reading the article "American Rapture" in the December issue of Vanity Fair, it would appear that the "evangelicals" are already in charge. So much for seperation of church and state! Falwell's statements such as "we often call the White House and talk to Karl Rove" "everyone takes OUR calls" are at the very least alarming. Then he goes on to say "We talk to each other DAILY and meet in Washington probably twice a month"-------------and then there are the secretive goings on of the "Arlington Group" and even worse-----"The Council for National Policy".
American's at large had better WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not a religious person myself, but I have a huge amount of respect for sincere religious people. When my dad was dying, the nun at the hospital, my parent's parish priest, and my sister's best friend (a Presbyterian minister) were wonderful comforts.
But people like Falwell and Robertson and these other frauds make me sick. Robertson especially - with his ties to slavery and diamond mines, all done under the cover of his "Operation Blessings", or whatever it's called. Plus, I seriously think he has dementia - there's no other way to explain some of the stuff he spews.
It's all part of the reason I left the GOP and returned to the Dems. (yes, I admit it - I dabbled in Republicanism in my youth. What can I say? it was the 80's. It was either that or cocaine. Although when I went to New York, I met a lot of Republican coke users, but that's another story.) You can wrap bad policies up in the flag, and put a nice Bible bow on top, but the policies are still wrong. (That's my opinion, of course)
That, and I wanted my parents to talk to me again ;-)
But people like Falwell and Robertson and these other frauds make me sick. Robertson especially - with his ties to slavery and diamond mines, all done under the cover of his "Operation Blessings", or whatever it's called. Plus, I seriously think he has dementia - there's no other way to explain some of the stuff he spews.
It's all part of the reason I left the GOP and returned to the Dems. (yes, I admit it - I dabbled in Republicanism in my youth. What can I say? it was the 80's. It was either that or cocaine. Although when I went to New York, I met a lot of Republican coke users, but that's another story.) You can wrap bad policies up in the flag, and put a nice Bible bow on top, but the policies are still wrong. (That's my opinion, of course)
That, and I wanted my parents to talk to me again ;-)
Thanks for the early morning
fright!
Sorry if I offend anyone, but I do not like the current style of Republican. I miss the old sort, the ones who were financially conservative, and weren't overly concerned about what other people did, in or out of their bedrooms.
Furthermore, I do not really recognise or comprehend "Christianity" as Falwell and Robertson espouse it.
I wish both Falwell and Robertson the obscurity they so richly deserve.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
fright!
Sorry if I offend anyone, but I do not like the current style of Republican. I miss the old sort, the ones who were financially conservative, and weren't overly concerned about what other people did, in or out of their bedrooms.
Furthermore, I do not really recognise or comprehend "Christianity" as Falwell and Robertson espouse it.
I wish both Falwell and Robertson the obscurity they so richly deserve.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
This current administration,and their so called "religious" following are way out of bounds. The administation is "paying the price" right now,and the ones that spew forth hatred and bigotry in the name of God will have to "pay the price" sooner or later also. That includes the Catholic Church,which has now blamed the Gay society for years of covered up cases of child abuse from their child molesters. They have also placed blame on the Gays for their shortage of priests. The statement from the Vatican said that one of the reasons of the shortage of priests was that so many of the Gays are in the seminary,that the straight seminary students are uncomfortable,and are even afraid to take a shower. Yeah right! I am sure after this ban on Gays to the priesthood,the straight guys will be breaking the doors to the seminary down to get in. LOL!!
I was born and raised as Catholic BTW. When I was a child in the Catholic schools we were told that only the Catholics went to Heaven. Peoples of all other faiths,went to a very nice place called Limbo. It wasn't Heaven,however it was very nice... I can recall being very upset,as I had a very good friend that was Baptist. What a bunch of lies they spread then,and today they are doing the same sort of thing. I am glad to say I am no longer Catholic,and although I am Christian,and pray every day,I have no need for a church of any kind.
I was born and raised as Catholic BTW. When I was a child in the Catholic schools we were told that only the Catholics went to Heaven. Peoples of all other faiths,went to a very nice place called Limbo. It wasn't Heaven,however it was very nice... I can recall being very upset,as I had a very good friend that was Baptist. What a bunch of lies they spread then,and today they are doing the same sort of thing. I am glad to say I am no longer Catholic,and although I am Christian,and pray every day,I have no need for a church of any kind.
I was watching Leno last week and his guest was Jimmy Carter basically plugging his new book which I think was titled something like Decling Morals in America. What he touched on about the book was the ever increasing Christian fundamentalism that has overtaken the current administration and not in a good way from the tone of the conversation. I stopped in at the bookstore and took a quick read but will have to wait till it hits paperback or the library. Has anyone else read it yet? I always had a great respect for Carter
Jimmy Carter
I have not yet read the new Jimmy Carter book "Our Endangered Values." But I did see him on "Larry King Live" and cover a news conference in Las Vegas he held to promote the book. I must say I was very impressed by his arguments about the current church/state issue and the tendency by the current administration to use "faith based" organizations as the panacea for various problems.
I sincerely believe George W. Bush's comments about his religion. Ditto Mr. Carter's. But the difference is, Mr. Carter never used religion as part of the workings of the federal government, and simply used his faith as an example to all. Mr. Bush and his supporters, by contrast, want to make America one nation under ONE God--the God Bush and his backers espouse. The faith based groups can protest all they want, but using one type of religion as public policy for a nation that fought for religious freedom is truly ironic.
I have not yet read the new Jimmy Carter book "Our Endangered Values." But I did see him on "Larry King Live" and cover a news conference in Las Vegas he held to promote the book. I must say I was very impressed by his arguments about the current church/state issue and the tendency by the current administration to use "faith based" organizations as the panacea for various problems.
I sincerely believe George W. Bush's comments about his religion. Ditto Mr. Carter's. But the difference is, Mr. Carter never used religion as part of the workings of the federal government, and simply used his faith as an example to all. Mr. Bush and his supporters, by contrast, want to make America one nation under ONE God--the God Bush and his backers espouse. The faith based groups can protest all they want, but using one type of religion as public policy for a nation that fought for religious freedom is truly ironic.
The
The
Oooops----sorry folks. Malfunction!
Falwell: Another person who wants to do everything possible to protect life, as long as it's a heterosexual fetus.
John 18:36
What we are facing and discussing is the corruption in the way that power-hungry people, full of hate, would use the Bible to spread hate and gain wealth and power. Why would a "minister" run for president? Why would one who "ministers" unto others in the name of the Source of Love brag about having connections in government or own businesses that use slave labor? Why are they always asking for more money? Psalm 146:3 is the injunction against those who lust after power and influence. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why so many people who are so close to G-d are so filled with anger and hate and why they feel that they have to resort to lies to further their agenda. Those who claim to be the moral vanguard of this nation do not realize the cunning of evil and do not recognize how evil has infiltrated their body; raising up rank weeds in place of beautiful flowers and fruit-bearing plants because they are engaged in judging instead of loving. They are united in hate because neither they nor their spiritual leaders want to put forth the extra effort to be transformed by love. While they preach against sin and immoral behavior; they, themselves, are flunking basic ethics.
This is the great downfall of a theocracy. You cannot allow any difference of opinion because the rulers base their government on their interpretation of the holy scriptures which have to be right because they are holy. Any difference that anyone has is blasphemy and punishable by death. Look at Iran today. Consider Galileo or Copernicus and all of the science and wisdom of the ancient civilizations of Greece and Rome that were lost durning the Dark Ages, back when the Church of Rome was running everything. Those who know nothing of history claim to want to establish a government in this country based on the Bible. The original Bible has rules so rigid and minute and punishments so severe that few could stand its rigor. And this is the thing; if you accept it as the governing document, you cannot say that any part of it is invalid or does not apply because it is the word of You Know Who. And the sequel, or the "New" Testament, does not have any instructions for setting up and running a government. Of course, students do not study much history anymore, but if they did study it and use the brains with which they were blessed, they would see where most of the great wars in history had their roots in religion and behind the religion was the lust and avarice of human beings perverting the word of G-d for their own ends and building fences instead of bridges between human beings and their Creator.
What we are facing and discussing is the corruption in the way that power-hungry people, full of hate, would use the Bible to spread hate and gain wealth and power. Why would a "minister" run for president? Why would one who "ministers" unto others in the name of the Source of Love brag about having connections in government or own businesses that use slave labor? Why are they always asking for more money? Psalm 146:3 is the injunction against those who lust after power and influence. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why so many people who are so close to G-d are so filled with anger and hate and why they feel that they have to resort to lies to further their agenda. Those who claim to be the moral vanguard of this nation do not realize the cunning of evil and do not recognize how evil has infiltrated their body; raising up rank weeds in place of beautiful flowers and fruit-bearing plants because they are engaged in judging instead of loving. They are united in hate because neither they nor their spiritual leaders want to put forth the extra effort to be transformed by love. While they preach against sin and immoral behavior; they, themselves, are flunking basic ethics.
This is the great downfall of a theocracy. You cannot allow any difference of opinion because the rulers base their government on their interpretation of the holy scriptures which have to be right because they are holy. Any difference that anyone has is blasphemy and punishable by death. Look at Iran today. Consider Galileo or Copernicus and all of the science and wisdom of the ancient civilizations of Greece and Rome that were lost durning the Dark Ages, back when the Church of Rome was running everything. Those who know nothing of history claim to want to establish a government in this country based on the Bible. The original Bible has rules so rigid and minute and punishments so severe that few could stand its rigor. And this is the thing; if you accept it as the governing document, you cannot say that any part of it is invalid or does not apply because it is the word of You Know Who. And the sequel, or the "New" Testament, does not have any instructions for setting up and running a government. Of course, students do not study much history anymore, but if they did study it and use the brains with which they were blessed, they would see where most of the great wars in history had their roots in religion and behind the religion was the lust and avarice of human beings perverting the word of G-d for their own ends and building fences instead of bridges between human beings and their Creator.
Matthew 25:40
"Whatsoever you do unto the least of my brothers (and sisters*), you do unto Me."
What more needs to be said?
Lawrence/Maytagbear
(* my position/addition.)
"Whatsoever you do unto the least of my brothers (and sisters*), you do unto Me."
What more needs to be said?
Lawrence/Maytagbear
(* my position/addition.)
westyslantfront
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,718
I am an active, church going Episcopalian. It is very disturbing to see how many people have left "main line" churches and resorted to "fundamentalist" churches which are more politically driven rather than spiritual. Too many of these "brand x" churches are run by opportunistic men who are more out for the money they can make than for ministering to their flock. It is upsetting to see how so many people are taken in and believe in these charlatans who call themselves Ministers of God. And these "brand x" pervert scriptures to suit their own political goals.
Sure hope that people will start to come to their senses are see these fundamentalists for what they really are.
Sure hope that people will start to come to their senses are see these fundamentalists for what they really are.
We have been duped--------
The only differences between Iran and us is that our fundamentalists took over without firing a shot. They depended on the ignorance of most Americans who do not do their HOMEWORK before deciding on who to vote for-----or even worse-----vote for someone because of a *mob mentality* everyone else is voting for that person. Or worst of all *they look good*!
I was fooled the first time but not the second. If it looks, walks and talks like a rat ITS A RAT! These people are RATS! More and more of my Republican friends are finally admitting that they made a serious mistake voting for this administration. As I have pointed out for some time now----the President and his cohorts are NOT REPUBLICANS! They are extreme right-wing (mostly Christian) fundamentalists, and they got there by being stealthy, and persistent liars and thieves------in the name of the Lord, of course. Have you noticed how our Vice-President can't even look an interviewer in the eye. And how much more evidence do people need to see that Karl Rove is the lowest of slime-balls. Nothing more than a *high-tech* Joseph Goebbels----a master propagandist.
I just drove through Virginia over Thanksgiving. Passed just south of Lynchburg---went right by the Falwell compound. *Falwell Aviation* prominently displayed on the huge compond of hangers and office buildings. No little Cessna's park there. BIG Cessna Citation X's AND plenty of Gulfstream's too. Ah yes, the power and the glory.
I too can quote a bible verse------*they will come to you as lambs and ravage you as wolves*. American's had better WAKE UP!
I just finnished President Carter's book "Our Endangered Values". Time has made a very wise man out of him. He and his wife live their lives as a shining example of what *good Christians* ought to be. He also knows the importance of the seperation of church and state. A great book. I'm sure the White House has had a good laugh over it.
How distressing to hear the government is now admitting to another ten Marines killed in action. Mostly 19 and 20 year olds. For what? A contest of wills between the fundamentalists of our country and *Islam*. Now over 50,000 innocent Iraqi's killed, hundreds of little children. Thousands more mamed and injured on BOTH sides. It just makes me sick. BUT tonight the President will have his production company complete with professional propagandists and public relations people tell us why it is a good thing for us to be at war. Better your dead sons and daughters than his. Americans had better WAKE UP!
Yeah, we were duped.
The only differences between Iran and us is that our fundamentalists took over without firing a shot. They depended on the ignorance of most Americans who do not do their HOMEWORK before deciding on who to vote for-----or even worse-----vote for someone because of a *mob mentality* everyone else is voting for that person. Or worst of all *they look good*!
I was fooled the first time but not the second. If it looks, walks and talks like a rat ITS A RAT! These people are RATS! More and more of my Republican friends are finally admitting that they made a serious mistake voting for this administration. As I have pointed out for some time now----the President and his cohorts are NOT REPUBLICANS! They are extreme right-wing (mostly Christian) fundamentalists, and they got there by being stealthy, and persistent liars and thieves------in the name of the Lord, of course. Have you noticed how our Vice-President can't even look an interviewer in the eye. And how much more evidence do people need to see that Karl Rove is the lowest of slime-balls. Nothing more than a *high-tech* Joseph Goebbels----a master propagandist.
I just drove through Virginia over Thanksgiving. Passed just south of Lynchburg---went right by the Falwell compound. *Falwell Aviation* prominently displayed on the huge compond of hangers and office buildings. No little Cessna's park there. BIG Cessna Citation X's AND plenty of Gulfstream's too. Ah yes, the power and the glory.
I too can quote a bible verse------*they will come to you as lambs and ravage you as wolves*. American's had better WAKE UP!
I just finnished President Carter's book "Our Endangered Values". Time has made a very wise man out of him. He and his wife live their lives as a shining example of what *good Christians* ought to be. He also knows the importance of the seperation of church and state. A great book. I'm sure the White House has had a good laugh over it.
How distressing to hear the government is now admitting to another ten Marines killed in action. Mostly 19 and 20 year olds. For what? A contest of wills between the fundamentalists of our country and *Islam*. Now over 50,000 innocent Iraqi's killed, hundreds of little children. Thousands more mamed and injured on BOTH sides. It just makes me sick. BUT tonight the President will have his production company complete with professional propagandists and public relations people tell us why it is a good thing for us to be at war. Better your dead sons and daughters than his. Americans had better WAKE UP!
Yeah, we were duped.
DEEP and RELIGIOUS, sensitive?, close this now....
What really scares me is that people feel the need to look for a God outside of themselves and so desperately need to hear froms others what is "right" and "wrong". Do they not have a mind of their own?
My own Christian faith is Eastern Orthodox which is a large branch that TOGETHER with ROMAN Catholicism [There are many "Catholic" or complete churches) was "THE" (ONE) Christian church before the Great Schism (Schismos = Greek for RIP, TEAR, SPLIT)of 1054 A.D. Mind you, that split was POLITICAL. Each branch claims to be the authentic with the other the heretic. BIG SURPIRSE, eh? Both ot these major branches have th same writeen creed, that varies only by ONE sentence.
anyhoo....
here are some of my interpretations and I hope no-one is offended.
It is anti-Christian to:
1) Impose your views upon others.
You are supposed to ascend to Christian thought, Can't be forced into it.
2) Judge others.
No one is perfect,that is what we are here to rise to.
3) Fear sexuality.
It is a God-given gift that is part of the human experience.
just use it wisely.
4) Advetise your self-improvement program(s).
(e.g.) By saying "I gave up chocolate for lent", you have just negated the purpose of doing it. Better would be to curb a dirty mouth or a penchat for perusing adult sites, IMHO and SHUT UP about it. It is for YOUR own benefit.
4) Be Political.
See the power in LOVE, FOGIVENESS and KINDNESS. If everyone did it the world would be a better place, IMHO.
After all "Your pepole killed or enslaved my people 3,000 years ago." is rather pointless to think aobut now, n'est ce pas? "No good shall come of this Rhett."
5) Be inflexible in thought and deed.
REMEMBER, people see the world through their experience of it. If you believe life is cruel, then it is, if you believe life is one fairy-tale (or a fairy-tail for that matter) after another, then it is. People see the world through their language, their ethnicity, their religion and their zip code.
Very few can see past their conditioning (myself included). That takes work and originality of thought. Both rare, IMHO.
6) <giggle> If you need someone to guide you and steer you, send all of your money to me. I will be happy to tell you what to do. LOL
TOO MUCH SAID.
ANYWAY..In my church
1) Incense belongs ONLY to God.
2) The priest censes the people.
WHY? Becaue God is in us all, and because collecively we ARE God. Think aobut that one. It is deep.
OK humor me on this one..
Make the sign of the cross.
RIGHT hand.
Thumb, index finger, and middle finger together.
Ring finger and pinky folded back toward wrist.
What does this mean? Sybolically..
Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (and most Chridtians don't realize that symbolizes Body, Mind, and soul/sprit which make up life.)
The OTHER two fingers are pointing back at YOU.
Two natures of JC and two natures of EACH AND EVERY person. HUMAN and DIVINE.
YOU ARE GOD.
MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
I get off my soap box now.
What really scares me is that people feel the need to look for a God outside of themselves and so desperately need to hear froms others what is "right" and "wrong". Do they not have a mind of their own?
My own Christian faith is Eastern Orthodox which is a large branch that TOGETHER with ROMAN Catholicism [There are many "Catholic" or complete churches) was "THE" (ONE) Christian church before the Great Schism (Schismos = Greek for RIP, TEAR, SPLIT)of 1054 A.D. Mind you, that split was POLITICAL. Each branch claims to be the authentic with the other the heretic. BIG SURPIRSE, eh? Both ot these major branches have th same writeen creed, that varies only by ONE sentence.
anyhoo....
here are some of my interpretations and I hope no-one is offended.
It is anti-Christian to:
1) Impose your views upon others.
You are supposed to ascend to Christian thought, Can't be forced into it.
2) Judge others.
No one is perfect,that is what we are here to rise to.
3) Fear sexuality.
It is a God-given gift that is part of the human experience.
just use it wisely.
4) Advetise your self-improvement program(s).
(e.g.) By saying "I gave up chocolate for lent", you have just negated the purpose of doing it. Better would be to curb a dirty mouth or a penchat for perusing adult sites, IMHO and SHUT UP about it. It is for YOUR own benefit.
4) Be Political.
See the power in LOVE, FOGIVENESS and KINDNESS. If everyone did it the world would be a better place, IMHO.
After all "Your pepole killed or enslaved my people 3,000 years ago." is rather pointless to think aobut now, n'est ce pas? "No good shall come of this Rhett."
5) Be inflexible in thought and deed.
REMEMBER, people see the world through their experience of it. If you believe life is cruel, then it is, if you believe life is one fairy-tale (or a fairy-tail for that matter) after another, then it is. People see the world through their language, their ethnicity, their religion and their zip code.
Very few can see past their conditioning (myself included). That takes work and originality of thought. Both rare, IMHO.
6) <giggle> If you need someone to guide you and steer you, send all of your money to me. I will be happy to tell you what to do. LOL
TOO MUCH SAID.
ANYWAY..In my church
1) Incense belongs ONLY to God.
2) The priest censes the people.
WHY? Becaue God is in us all, and because collecively we ARE God. Think aobut that one. It is deep.
OK humor me on this one..
Make the sign of the cross.
RIGHT hand.
Thumb, index finger, and middle finger together.
Ring finger and pinky folded back toward wrist.
What does this mean? Sybolically..
Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (and most Chridtians don't realize that symbolizes Body, Mind, and soul/sprit which make up life.)
The OTHER two fingers are pointing back at YOU.
Two natures of JC and two natures of EACH AND EVERY person. HUMAN and DIVINE.
YOU ARE GOD.
MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
I get off my soap box now.
and speaking of fundamentalists who are a bit TOO literal of sacred texts.
We are all reaiding a transaltion of Hebrew, Aramaic and Biblical Greek into English.
Trnaslations are tricky, shades of meaning are difficult to capture and verbs change over the eons.
I WANT in English now means I would like, whereas it once meant I am missing/need.
Here is ONE line from the Bible in Greek:
STHN APXH HTAN O LOGOS.
Translated as:
"In the beginning there was the word (of God..)"
other thranslaion:
"In charge was the authority."
Slight difference, eh?
IMHO. So if fundamentalists want to quote the Bible, (so that they understand it) they should at least study it in the original.....
We are all reaiding a transaltion of Hebrew, Aramaic and Biblical Greek into English.
Trnaslations are tricky, shades of meaning are difficult to capture and verbs change over the eons.
I WANT in English now means I would like, whereas it once meant I am missing/need.
Here is ONE line from the Bible in Greek:
STHN APXH HTAN O LOGOS.
Translated as:
"In the beginning there was the word (of God..)"
other thranslaion:
"In charge was the authority."
Slight difference, eh?
IMHO. So if fundamentalists want to quote the Bible, (so that they understand it) they should at least study it in the original.....
westyslantfront
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,718
Hi Toggle....catholic to us anglicans/episcopalians means "universal church"....we consider ourselves catholics but not roman catholics...again anglicans came in to being for political reasons...so henry 8th could get a divorce from catherine of aragon to marry ann bolyn...the pope not wanting to offend catherine's father, king of spain refused to grant the divorce....and to this day, queen elizabeth is the supreme head of the church of england....she appoints the spiritual head, the archbishop of canterbury...
incense was used by ancient hebrews as a sign of reverence and also signifies that it carries our prayers up to God...that is why it is used in many churches, including my own....
inward and outward....making the sign of the cross is the outward sign but is meaningless without the inward....asking for God's grace...
incense was used by ancient hebrews as a sign of reverence and also signifies that it carries our prayers up to God...that is why it is used in many churches, including my own....
inward and outward....making the sign of the cross is the outward sign but is meaningless without the inward....asking for God's grace...
