Lowe's Home Improvement - Am I overreacting? or......

[Cybrvanr]

Solar panels will last quite longer than 5-6 years. Most manufacturers even offer 15-20 year warrantees on their panels, and they will state that the life expectantcy can be even longer! Solar panels do not have any moving parts, and are very basic in their chemical design. They are perhaps one of the most reliable things manufactured in modern times! Now, if you look at how much a solar panel costs, and how much it will give you in "payback" by today's energy costs, chances are you will find that you won't break even in 20 years. That's not the whole picture though! For one, energy prices will not come down anytime soon! They are going up, so payback is going to happen quicker as energy prices continue to go up. The second is that they are one of the few devices that you can actually buy that will actually make you money back! Practically everything in your home costs money to maintain and operate...Not so with a solar system...It makes free electricity!!! The last but not least is that a soar system is wonderful for backup power. As often as the electricity goes out in my neck of the woods, a solar system is a welcome thing to have!

I have seen people shell out $7000 to $10K on installed automatic backup generator systems for their home. The drawback to those is that these generators use ENORMOUS amounts of fuel. One tech I spoke to said that an 8KW backup generator he typically sells uses about 50 gallons of diesel fuel (furnace oil if you are equipped) in a 24 hour period. OUCH!!! I'm not going to spend $100 worth of fuel to keep $30 worth of food from spoiling! This is not counting the periodic service and repairs that may need to be done. These systems basically use a small diesel engine just like a little truck would have.

The big secret is if a little more money is spent, a solar system can be installed that will not only provide backup power, but will put power back into the grid once your batteries are fully charged (and reduce your electric bill!). SO, for a little extra money, you could be MAKING money off your backup system, instead of having to SPEND money to keep it going. Solar systems are fully electronic, and require significantly less maintaince. About the only thing you need to do is keep the batteries watered (which can be done with an automatic system now) and keep your solar panels clean!

 

[Cybrvanr]

What I find interesting is the quality that goes into HVAC equipment installed in the typical home. In years past,like in the 60's and earlier, manufacturers of heating equipment manufactured the heating plants to survive the same length of time that the building was designed to be useful. For a typical home, this can be between 50 to 100 years, and even longer in many instances. This was because the heating equipment is large and integrated into the construction of the home. In commercial buildings, this still holds true...you rarely ever hear about a a large building getting a new chiller, boiler, air handlers, or other major mechanical piece.

Nowadays however we replace HVAC plants in homes every 20 years or so. The equipment nowadays is getting more efficient, and homes they are installed in are also becoming more energy-concious. As the technology improves, people want to upgrade the HVAC equipment to take advantage of these technologies.

HVAC equipment builders now know about the technology factor, and that people will replace equipment working or not after about 20 or more years of use. For that reason, they just don't build the equipment anymore to last the life of the building it's installed in, but instead build the equipment to last about 20 years or so, because they know it will be replaced anyway.

The result of this is that many people are removing massive cast-iron boilers in 100 year old homes that are still perfectly functioning, and replacing them with equipment that is hardly made anywhere near as good. Now, the newer equipment may use signficantly less fuel, but the chances of it lasting the same length of time is pretty nil! I have heard about people having to get furnaces replaced that are 20-30 years old because the heat exchangers have rusted out. Many users of much older equipment however do not have these problems, and continue to use their 50 year old equipment with very little or no malfunctions.

 

[toggleswitch]

Going back to photovoltiac solar panels, many states now permit net metering.

Your electric meter spins forward as you draw more power than you produce and BACKWARDS as you produce more than you use.

You buy at retail rates for the power, but you also SELL RETAIL (not wholesale).

At the end of the month the utilities in theory could have to mail YOU a check.

Even if we had to sell wholesale and buy retail to fund the utilites, why not? The end result would be a more secure, cleaner and energy independent nation.

They say water is free but the piping costs. If electricity were "free" we'd still have to pay something for the piping!

 

[toggleswitch]

People here just dont get it.

Every time I see a new house built, even with gas for heat and hot water, the dryer is electric.You have to PAY EXTRA to get a gas line extended.

Gas dryer uses 1/3 the total energy of an electric one (Because 2/3 of the energy used to make electricity is wasted as heat.) Similarly using electric over gas in most parts of the country [except where it is sourced from hydro-electric] costs you three times as much to run.

Considering there is little or no perceptible difference or change in ease-of-use to the consumer, why does this STILL happen?

Ditto electric water heaters in homes that have natural gas or fuel oil. Especailly in light of the fact that new ones vent like dryers right out of a side-wall; no chimney or flue required. Funnier even is that gas water heaters have a much quicker recivery as compared to electric and the same size (in gallons /litres) will provide more hot water quicker.

 

[Kevinpreston3]

As I have mentioned before...

Hundreds of 1968 and 1969 Dodge Chargers were destroyed making that stupid Dukes of Hazzard series, and a few dozen more making the lame movie. These are awesome cars. Seeing them wrecked is only enjoyed by a few with a screwball mentality (no offense to anyone here who may have liked them, but you get my drift).

When the best of the old days are gone, they're gone. People McMansion their homes with not a thought about it, just so it looks like a model. I don't expect everyone to use old appliances, and new ones are wonderful in their own right. But throwing out something from the 50s, 60s that is in great shape and working to me is rather irresponsible.

But, it's a free country. You can't tell people what to do with their stuff. But a little common sense would go a long ways!

 

[tolivac]

Cybervaner:Its true on the lives of commercial building HVAC equipment-but its the environmental concerns of new regulations on refrigerants-the chillers in a govt building I worked in were considered the first installed by Carrier in a govt building. they were installed in 1939-they had 6 650 ton capacity units-they cooled two buildings.Each was "open" construction-700Hp Crocker-Wheeler Motors and the Carrier Centrifical compresser units-they had a special transmission that step up the 1800 RPM motor speed to 8,000RPM to run the impellers in the chillers.they were impressive to see running-and starting.That 700HP motor put out a nice "electric Growel" while starting.They used R-11 refrigerant.also were manually tended. Now move to 1997-these were torn out-and with cutting torches no less to those cool Crocker-Wheeler motors-they could have been used for something else.Now they have Trane Hermetic centrifical chillers that have 4 stage compressers and 3600RPM hermetic motors-and have half the horsepower as the old ones with even greater cooling capacity.-Now 1200tons.The building engineer showed me how to start the one in my building zone when it was hot--now were talking instead of the window units in my workspace-It was literally cool starting one of these up-with just one button.They had in mind starting and stopping these automatically as they were needed.The refrigerant these use is HCFC-135-more freindly-but toxic-they are alarms in the building that sound if it gets loose-and you evacuate if they sound.the stuff will kill you in minutes if you stayed-read the warnings on the drums.

 

[tolivac]

I think its technology,fuel,and environmental concerns is why so many fine vintage HVAC systems are replaced long before their lives are over.
I am also tunred off somewhat by the reckless concern for older vehicles and products by Hollywood for TV and movie production-once those Dodge Chargers are Wrecked for the filming of those movies-they are gone forever.Too bad some collector couldn't have gotten them.sort of like in the early parts of the 20th century-locomotives relegated to be scrapped-were actually collided together head on to the thrills of crowds-they spectators were kept a good distance away-locomotive boiler explosions resulting were very dangerous.the crews lept off them at the last moments before locking throttles open and jamming the deadmans.Its too bad more of those didn't survive for folks to ride today-and for the train musuems.
On the solar systems-a caveat-the power company can REJECT the power it generates if it doesn't meet the power companies requirements-voltage,phase,waveform(sine wave)and frequency.also they want to know if you have such a system-and it must be able to be disconnected from the line when they request it-this is for the safety of the linemen.Remember the power generated by the solar systems or portable generators will feed back thru the pole transformers causing a lethal hazard to the linemen.I have seen power company linemen ask generator owners during these storms how they are connected.At the present plant where I work the power company routinely sends us notices"do not run" the jenny here if they are working on the lines.

 

[toggleswitch]

good points.

I'm rooting for addressable control units (inverters/regualtors) similar to cable-TV boxes. (In my fantasy world where Uncle Sam mandates a set of panels on every roof.. )

By this method the power company could lock in the "OFF" postion your genny/panels as needed. But that would take thought and planning and coordination.

 

[tolivac]

At where I work-the gen is provided by the power company for load manangement. Sometimes they want us to use it on days where the power demand was very high-like during the very hot days here a few weeks ago-anyway in their normal installations of these "jennys" they would start or stop it as they required.but agency safety policy here(govt agency) requires us to control the generator-We start or stop as they request by sending us an E-Mail message over our computers.The generator is in parallel with the line-so it will feed back into them.It is NOT an emergency generator-It takes a special procedure I could do it-to isolate it from the line-but they still want us to "lock it out" while they are maintaining our lines .Its a good safety policy.Protects their employees and equipment.

 

[kenmore1978]

useful life

I am having an issue with a "Sunbeam" bottled water cooler that's only 2 years and 5 months old. Apparently Sunbeam licensed their name to a Canadian coompany who then had these coolers imported from China. First, the hot water spigot broke. Fortunatley, they ahd that part readily available. Now, the heater that heated the hot water reservoir has failed, and when I called to get the part, they said they had NO internal parts available AT ALL. So now I have this cooler where 1/3 of its function is not fixable. And it's always leaked around the bottom, even though we kept the defrost water soaked up. At the time I purchased it at Home Depot, it was a toss-up between it and one from GE. In hindsight, I guess I should've gotten the GE.