Maytag herrin transmission

[thefixer]

Anyone ever dismantle one of these transmissions? I am curious as to how the clutch spring operates on the input pinion gear. This is an LGS type similar to the one used on the bottom of GE transmissions. It grips in one direction but not the other, so I can see how it works in the agitate direction but not in the spin direction. According to the service manuals, "the counterclockwise rotation of the drive shaft causes the clutch spring to relax into an override position. The clutch spring still exerts a driving force to the input pinion even when it is in the override position." How does it do this? Also, are the fingers on the input pinion gear the only thing that is driving the transmission for spin mode? It appears that these fingers are a common failure point and when they break, the washer no longer spins but agitates instead as they normally prevent the input pinion from rotating relative to the transmission in spin mode.

Eric

 

[coldspot66]

I have had 2 tranny failures in the past month on Herrin trannys that were about 6 years old....really a sin. When that spring breaks it agitates and spins at the same time. it may agitate in wash ok, but when it comes to the spin cycle, it tangles the clothes. It will drain the water, but will not spin up to speed , and the agitator ocillates back and forth. Sad how Maytag was dragged through the mud.

 

[thefixer]

I believe it's the fingers on the input pinion gear that break. If the clutch spring breaks, what is driving the pinion? This does seem to be a relatively common failure on these transmissions. I have read where someone epoxied the fingers back together and it worked but I doubt it would last long. Too bad there are no replacement parts.

Eric

Photo of pinion gear

http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/MaytagInputPinionGear.jpg

 

[coldspot66]

Thanks for the pic...have always wanted to crack one of these trannys open to see.
I understand they are all nylon/plastic gears, and there are 2 sets of them to balance out the tranny. No need for counterweights.

 

[thefixer]

The gears are made of Celcon Acetal Copolymer. Nylon is not a good choice for precision gears due to moisture absorption which causes the gears to swell. Celcon is also used in Whirlpools new belt drive transmission and splutch assembly. When Maytag was designing their transmission, the criteria for the plastic gears was that they would allow the transmission to last 15 years. I wonder if the problem with the input pinion gear is due more to faulty thrust bearings or worn cams for the brake release than it is due to the plastic gear. If the brake doesn't release, there will be a lot more force against the transmission input shaft which may be too much for the fingers on the pinion gear to handle but there is supposed to be a clutch in there so who knows. I would like to see how the clutch works.

Eric

 

[coldspot66]

If I remember, the spin gear of the W/P direct drive tranny is also made of the same material you described. You may be right about thrust bearing failure within the brake/pulley assy. Those "fingers" don't look very sturdy; seems like they could shear off easily.

 

[combo52]

Herrin Built MTs

The Helix spring was what allowed the slip as the water was pumping out so the washers basket could accelerate slowly, it was in effect the clutch and it took the place of the silly slipping belt in the regular Maytag washers. This washer design accelerated very slowly, this is why Maytag claimed in their advertising that these washers produced cleaner brighter clothing because this slow acceleration did not allow as much dirty water to be strained back through the clothing as it was exiting the wash basket compared to the slosh over and drain that regular helical drive Maytag's did. This slow acceleration was also the reason that these washers did not have an unbalance switch, as they just SLOWED DOWN when the load was not balanced. The owners manual for these washers advised you to re-balance the load and re-spin it if it felt wet at the end of the cycle, some thing that you would NEVER have to do with a WP BD or DD washer.

 

We just replaced one of these transmissions in a MT washer the other month and we pried open the old non serviceable transmission to do an autopsy. I found that the little bent tab at the end of the HS had broken off rendering the transmission broken.

 

Overall these redesigned Norge washers did perform much better than the Helical Drive MTs but the durability was so bad that it made the older Norge washers look good, LOL.

 

John [ coldspot 66 ] most of these washers have a 10 year part warranty, that is how we got the one for our customer, without a free transmission one of these washer would NEVER be worth repairing.

 

[thefixer]

Can you provide photo's of the HS and bottom inside of the transmission housing showing how it works? How does the input shaft get coupled to the pinion gear through this clutch spring? I found one of the patents for the transmission that shows the spring and explains the function of the pinion and fingers but it doesn't explain anything about the clutch.

Thanks,
Eric

Transmission drawing

http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/MaytagHerrinTransmissionDrawing.jpg

 

[norgechef]

Here is a pic of the inside of a herrin transmission

.

 

[norgechef]

Here is a pic of the gears

,

 

[norgechef]

I always thought

These washers would have been allot more dependable if they had put an electric pump on the performa/atlantis washers which would have reduced stress on the transmission during the slow spin draining part of the cycle, i think the spinning while the tub is still full adds allot more stress to the transmission and the motor. I have a Maytag Ensignia (basically a Maytag legacy series) washer and it makes a low grinding sound on the drain/spin part of the spin cycle that slowly fades out as the washer spins faster....which is why i think an electric pump would have taken allot of stress off of the transmission...and even after putting on a new snubber ring this washer barely ever balances out right which is also why it would have been more dependable if they redesigned the suspension system.

 

[thefixer]

Thanks for the photo's norgechef. What I'm looking for, is whats under the input pinion gear. The clutch spring and how it transfers rotational force from the input shaft to the pinion.

Eric

 

[norgechef]

I have always wondered that myself...

Never been able to figure it out though. I can't even picture what a clutch spring would look like or how it would be used in a small transmission for a washing machine.

 

[thefixer]

You can see it in the link I provided. It's the spirally wound spring under the input pinion gear. The drawing however, isn't clear on how it is coupled between the input shaft and the pinion gear. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Just for curiosity. I just like to know how these things work. The same type of spring is used on T style GE washers and I know how it works on them.

Eric

 

[gaclements]

Where to find the left hand thread bolt for the input gear. Thank

 

[bsaucer]

Patent?

That diagram looks like a patent diagram. Which patent is that from?