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"These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds. "

The Neptune 7500 is/was an exception to this rule. It allows just about any combination of water temp, wash speed, spin speed, wash time, pre-soak, stain cycle, number of rinses, etc. that you might dream up. And you can save your recipes in multiple "Favorites" custom combinations. Plus, if you jump into diag mode, you can force the washer to fill, drain, etc. as you please. Good for purging the hot water line.

Too bad more washers don't offer the 7500's flexibility.
 
Another NYC 220V Problem

NYC code requires that when any electrical upgrade work is done, if there is a fuse box it must be replaced with a circut breaker panel/box. There are LOTS of apartments/condos,co-ops in NYC that still have fuse boxes, so if one wishes to upgrade to 220v power, it is more than say just adding another circut to the panel or even a sub-box. This is another reason Miele 220v washers, indeed any 220v appliance would run in extra costs for electrical work.

Considering how many apartments/co-ops/condos in NYC do not even allow laundry appliances, sneaking in the aforementioned appliances AND doing electrical work is running fast and loose with one's landlord/building board. Now some people have made "arrangements" with electricans to do the work and sumggled in contraband appliances. They will also get the electrican not to file the proper papers with the city regarding the electrical work, so there is no record. These tricks aren't limited to middle income or "poor people", but rather some very high worth people who just wish to have a washer and dryer. Problem is what happens if the building/landlord finds out about the electrical work/laundry appliances.

There have been cases of persons getting away with the above, until the apartment is sold (in the case of co-op or condo), and the new owner naturally assumes all electrical work and indeed the laundry appliances were approved by the building. They are rudely awakened when the building tells them it approved no such thing and the appliances must go. They will consider the electrical upgrade work a "bonus" and leave it as it was, as that really cannot be changed.

Now, if one hires a fully licensed and good electrican, then the upgrade work should be fine, indeed NYC renters have been known to entirely redo their apartments, including new kitchens with or without their landlords written permission. Problems will arise if something like a fire breaks out and it can be traced back to faulty electrical work. Then all bets are off. Friends of ours had the elctrical work in their appartment upgraded for a Miele, and extra outlets added (they only had like four circuts and one or two outlets in the main living area. So far things have been ok, and their landlord hasn't caught on. Their electrican said he does that sort of thing all the time.

The above shows some of the problems Miele faced with 220v only appliances. If you cannot sell such units in one of the highest income areas of the United States, then don't fancy your chances elsewhere in the nation. Persons with larger homes also didn't like the "small" Miele units. They agreed with Consumer Reports about the lack of capacity. So in the end Miele has addressed both issues with these new models. They hold more and run on 120V power, well at least the washing machine. Though don't see anyone sumggling in a 40" tall washing machine. *LOL*

L.
 
Understood, Toggle. However, I hope you see the irony in a large home with 220 volt service not wanting a Miele or other 220 volt washer because the capacity is too small.

The logical solution would be to provide a large 220 volt washer, for such large homes, not a large 110 volt washer.

And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation. For example, what are the best selling dryers in the USA? Electric. What voltage do they take? 220 volt. So ... if there is a huge market for 220 volt electric dryers there should also be a market for 220 volt washers (with provision to share the outlet for a dryer, ala Miele). Not to mention, that there are plenty of laundry rooms with 220 volt outlets but the owner uses a gas dryer instead (like my laundry facility). So I have a 30 amp 220 volt outlet in my laundry room just sitting there, unused, unless I want to drag my arc welder into the family room to blind the parakeet.
 
All things considered, a pure 200v front loader has more "umph" than it's 120v cousins. Most all commercial/laundromat washing machines, even small capacity models run on 220v power only. This includes pumps (if any), drain valves, motor and so forth. IIRC a 220v motor for instance is allot more resistant to being over loaded than say a 120v one would be. This is great for a front loader as it could take the abuse of being over loaded.

Problem with American's is they for the most part have large supplies of tanked hot water, and or use LCB for disenfecting, whitening and stain removal in laundry. Once the need for powerful heaters is removed, then a 120v machine is fine, as 1300 watts or so can heat the small amount of water used by today's front loaders easily. It may take longer than a 3000w/220v front loader, but still it can be done.

L.
 
Most 15 amp 110 volt washers max out their heating elements at 1000 watts, not 1300. That's because the motor and electronics take up additional power (esp amperage), and, unless you want the motor to stop while the heater coil is working, then you've got to keep the heating watts down.

My Neptune has a 1,000 watt element and it can heat water at about 1 degree/minute for an average size load. If you consider that many hot water heaters are set at 120F, and most machines cool down the water at least 10 degrees upon filling, then your getting 110F to start the wash. Let's say you want to heat that to a respectable 140F for good cleaning and sanitation. That will take 30 minutes, at least.

But wait, another strong American trait is impatience. Add 30 minutes to a 60 minute wash cycle (typical) and you're got a 1.5 hr wash cycle. I can hear the complaints now. And god forbid you want to do a 150F or higher "Sanitizing" cycle. That might take 40 extra minutes. A 220 volt machine would readily avoid that kind of problem.
 
Commercial FL washers no doubt would run from 3Ph 208 or 220V.You would figure the facility would have sevral such machines-would not be practical to run them from 120V.the controls for the 3Ph motors and the motor itself would be less expensive than its 120V cousin of the same power.Remember 3Ph motors don't need starting equipment such as start windings,start caps and centrifical starting switches on the motors rotor.And its easier to reverse the 3Ph motor-just reverse one of the phases feeding the motor.I would also bet the commerical washer may not need a heater-the facility boiler or water heater could already heat the water to the high temp.I would be concerned for many of todays synthetic fabrics-woven plastic for the most part-the high heat could distort or melt the fibers.also the high temps can damage elastic waistbands.For my laundering needs would not need the reheat cycles-the water is already hot enough-and the bonus-saving more energy by NOT having to reheat the water.And oh yes-then have shorter cycles by not having to wait for the water to be reheated in the machine.It would seem reheat machines run on 120V you would have the choice of not running the heating element and the motor at the same time-a 1000W heater and the washer motor running at the same time would overtax the 120V15A circuit.
 
3 phase machines

Most of the commerical are 3phase however with the newer veri drive machines most will now go single or 3 phase . All of our machines are 3 ot 4 years old and they all can be single or 3 phase with just a change of a incoming wire.
 
Sounds like the "conversion" from single phase to 3ph is done in the electronic motor controller-the electronic VFD type controller could provide the missing "phase" if the machine was run from a single phase 220V line.
 
Saw the 4.0 cubic ft washer at abt electronics. I placed an order. 1400 rpm spin speed, and great build quality. Heats the water to 170 and runs on 110.
I will be happy to answer any questions that I possibly can... I think the longest cycle on the w4840 is 2:10. Shortest is :30. Gas dryer available April 07 and the electric is available along with the new washers. The miele rep said the dryer was between .5-8 cu ft... not sure about that, it didnt look that big, but who is to say. I received a brochure but those specs are not in there.

Hope this bit of info helps
 
Those prices do not make sense, IMHO.

Took a peek at ABT Appliance's website earlier and the Miele 1200 series washers run any where from about $1600 and up to over two grand. So how do new models, whihch are larger sell for less than their smaller cousins? If these prices are true, then Miele must be doing a "Mercedes-Benz/BMW" on the American consumer. For those that do not get that joke, there was a time when both German automobiles were at the top of their game. If one could afford one, it meant you truly had arrived. Today in order to capture market share, both Mercedes and BMW have in most cases cheapened models to bring price points down to sell more cars. One pretty much as to go up to the Mercedes AMG line to get anywhere near the old quality.

Am looking forward to seeing these new Miele machines in person, and kicking the tires. There simply is no free lunch, so either Miele is taking a financial hit by pricing these new units near or lower than domestic machines, with the hopes they will sell enough to make up the difference. Or, quite simply my previous statement is true.

L.
 
Most stoves in the coutnry are electric. Doent' mean you

And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation.

Ain't THAT a huge truth! :-)

I am humbled. Thank you. Still with 8+/- million people there, it is probably not a market to ignore.

It made little sense to me that GE (or was it Maytag? OH MY) dropped their short-lived 24 inch wide top-loader years back when that is the largest size cabinet so many can use in their homes.

Am I correct in saying that Sears and WP were the only ones to have a "small cabinet" large-capacity 24 inch wide (60cm) machine for a long period of time?
 
Really Have To Wonder About 150F "Sanitising" Cycl

Yes,the highest temp of 170F on the uber-Miele washers will "sanitise" but much would depend upon what germs one was trying to destroy, and how long the cycle held said temp. Nevermind little if anything sold in the way of modern linens or apparel in the United States,is labeled for washing above 40C (100F)anyway. Even when "hot" water is on the label, it usually means 120F, which is the common setting on most of today's American domestic hot water heaters.

The extreme hot to boiling wash temperatures found on older European washing machines was more a function of activating the oxygen bleaches used on that side of the pond, than anything else. Sure washing laundry at 200F for 30 minutes would kill lots of germs, but only under certian circumstances. Things such as how the machine was loaded, and again, if the temp was not only reached but held througout the cycle.

L.
 
L, from what I understand, on the Bosch that heats to 170, it only holds that tmep for 3 minutes, then begins to temper the water temp down.
 
Still with 8+/- million people there, it is probably not a m

As it should be hard to ignore the 7+ million in the San Francisco Bay Area. We may not be as compact as NYC, but we have breathtaking views just the same.

And Kenmore didn't ignore it when it chose this area to introduce their somewhat historic HE3T front loader back in 2002.

What's wrong with using a euro-size combo machine in NYC apartments? Just roll it up to the kitchen sink, hook up the combination fill/drain, and then hide it when the super knocks. For big loads, use the building's coin op.
 
You would be surprised how many NYC apartment/co-op/condo buildings do not permit laundry appliances and or even dishwashers.

Problems lie on several fronts:

One, as previously discussed, electrical wiring. Though that may only be a problem when using 220v appliances.

Next, one must remember NYC has some of the oldest housing stock in the country, this includes many of the highly desired brownstone and pre-war buildings. Plumbing simply cannot handle all that drain water from washing machines. Maybe one person's might get away with it, but not a majority of the building.

Remember also apartment buildings in NYC are not metered for the most part. That means either landlords or the building as whole pays the water bill. It wouldn't be fair for those not having laundry appliances subsidise those who do.

Finally there is the problem of what happens if the laundry overflows, who is going to pay for the damages? In co-op/condo buildings that allow laundry appliances, it usually is written somewhere to cover this area, and or the household must carry some sort of insurance.

The above not withstanding, many people do have washing machines and or dryers in their NYC apartments. Both our appliance dealer and repair person will ask customers the common question before making a delivery/repair call "does the building allow washing machines"? If not they will try to disguise the appliance(s) in another box, and or for making service calls, say they are there for another reason. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. Our appliance dealer says more than once delivery people will be stopped and asked to open a box to show the building service people/landlord what is inside.

Oh yes, the final problem is that NYC has one of the largest population of nosey and or whinging people on the planet. If that washing machine or dryer annoys your neighboor(and for some that does not take much), plan on hearing from your building/landlord the next day.

L.
 
Nosey apartment house neighbors-He is then upset that YOU have a washer,dishwasher and he does not-jealous!Kinda like in one of the college dorms students used to smuggle Hoover washers into the building-that dorm had kitchenettes in each room.They did not allow the students to have washers-but the Hoover ones were used anyway-Students disguised them as tables,desks,etc when not in use.It was the older dorm building on campus-I was in the newer dorm-no kitenchnette.
 
Maybe not as much jealous as there are some people who belive in living by the rules or at least as they perceive them to be. NYC apartments are usually NOT very good on sound insulation, so can see if someone was doing laundry at odd hours, how it would bug someone.

For co-op or condo buildings they pay water as part of their common charges, so it is in everyone's interest to save where they can.

Again, there are allot of appliance stores selling laundry appliances in NYC, so someone must be buying them. Generally unless someone sneaks on you, once the appliances are inside your apartment, things are fine. Think the main problem is many NYC apartments are just too small for anything laundry wise.

L
 
Since I have been working shift work-I had to give up on apartment living-Try sleeping in one of those after you have worked a mid shift-It wasn't neighbors that was a problem-but the LANDLORD-mowing the house grounds,maintenance,also the building I was in they had LOUD disco parties!!Too bad about the sound insulation-would see that WD and other machines could be a problem-how bout vacuum cleaners there-when I did live in an apartment-I did have a small collection of vacuums-the neighbor below me would always come up after a vacuuming session-knock on my door-and then yell-"THERE MUST NOT BE A SPECK OF DUST ON YOUR FLOORS!"Laughed her off-she moved.But glad I got out-NYC would be a problem for folks that do shifts-how would they get sleep?
 
As one who used to work in nursing, shift work isn't so bad, nor sleeping. Night masks, dark drapes and ear plugs do the trick quite well. Of course during the warmer months there is the option of closing the windows and putting on the AC, which keeps things not only cool, but quiet.

These days however, there are so many people working from home, apartment buildings are not as quiet as they once were. That coupled with the baby boom can make the daylight hours quite loud. Oh yes, there are many elderly staying put in their apartments these days with a home help coming in,instead of going to a nursing home. This means televisions going full sound all day long. Surely in this day and age there must be a better way for our seniors to hear telly than having the sound turned so loud it can be heard in the next block.
 
Also the problem of one of the fair housings acts of opening adult apartments to families.That also contributed to the noise-kids running up and down the halls,playing with the elevators,etc.One thing on the TV's Hi-Fi's-when I lived in an apartment-the most useful thing was a good pair of headphones to listen to the stereo or TV.Others living there used them as well-that would help.I sleep very soundly in my house-that is no longer a problem.And if the neighbors do make noise-can find another room in the house to sleep in.Apartments didn't always give you that choice.
 
Now, now, the flyover states have had too much influence in the design of our appliances for too long! Lol!
 
Well, OK...

So the next great thing in American washer design will be a hand carry unit that can fit in a broom closet, that looks like a bookcase filled with old New Yorker magazines, which uses a maximum of one liter of water per load, and which spins at a maximum of 75 rpm so as not to annoy off the people downstairs.

Have I got that right? :-)
 
No, it must also accomplish all this in 1.575 minutes per load.

AND do the windows, in its down time!

We are VERY busy people, you know!!!

LOL!!
 
As I said, many NYC residents either go with a washer and or dryer (with or without landlord's/building's consent) or do without.

For those doing without more and more buildings are installing laundry equipment to take advantage of the "income" that can be produced. Machines are installed and serivced by route people for the major lines such as Maytag, GE, SQ and such.

The other option is one of the numerous wash and fold services that are all over NYC. Most have pick up and delivery, all offer drop off service. Indeed many trade publications predict an increase in drop-off/bulk laundry service not only in major urban areas, but elsewhere as well. Many people simply work too many hours and or do not wish to be bothered doing the wash.

Laundromats sadly are a dying breed, at least in Manhanttan. High rent and over head costs simply make owning a mat not a profitable business. The few that survive all offer drop off as well as self service. In the other four broughs, things are a bit better, rents are cheaper and space plentiful.

L.
 

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