Micro twin-tubs

[chestermikeuk]

A Big Bob Load!!!!....NOT......LOL....!!!!!!!

Could resist taking the Micro Compact for a spin....

Its a fab little washer, and yes I mean little, the laundry basket is a big as it....performs well, the wash action is very strong, certainly wizzes the clothes around..

Spinner very quiet and water spun into the outer tub, then you place the pipe in a bucket or sink and away you go..

See through Tubs are great to watch the washing swirling round and the spin water hitting the side of the outer tub...

BUT....A BIG BOB LOAD WASHER IT AINT.....(Hi Appnut!!!) ....lol

Take a look and see what you think, I`ve loaded them onto my yahoo pics so you might have to log on there....

Cheers, Mike

http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/chestermikeuk/detail?.dir=8735&.dnm=2d9f.jpg&.src=ph

 

[westytoploader]

Cool machine but I like the big Servis SuperTwin better!!!

 

[pulsator]

I want it even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[foraloysius]

Fascinating little machine, I wonder if it will appear overhere sometime.

 

[arrrooohhh]

OHHH I WANT ONE!!!!

I sound like a little kid I know.

Loved your pictures Chestermike! Thank you so much for sharing.

It really looks like fun, and its allwasy nice to see those Servis twinnies, reminds me of Nan and her Wilkins Servis twinnie

 

[tolivac]

Motors and frequencies-pt#2.

Designgeek:I thought of something over my weekend on the motors and frequencies-The motors in the transmitter are 3 phase-not single phase like that in a washer or appliance.The 3 ph motors don't have the starting equipment such as start windings,cap and centrifical start switch.The single phase motor could have difficulties starting on the frequency it wasn't designed for(the start cap and winding designed for 50Hz and you want to use it on 60Hz)This could be a problem since the motor has to overcome a load of some sort while starting(wash transmission or spin basket in the TT machine)The motor may not have the same start torque as intended.Something to ponder.you may want to get a cheaper machine to use as a "lab rat"
Yes,think NYC and Boston,Chicago,put in their subway or light rail in the older days when labor and equipment were less expensive.that was smart.Note in LA-they HAD a system-now trying to put another one in and it will largely duplicate the routes of their OLD one!LA needs a system more than anyone.Its being found that cities putting in a system now-the go to "light rail" electric vehicles that ride on tracks built above ground.anytime tunneling is involved-cost go Up since purchase rental of tunneling equipment is involved.Saw one of the tunnel digging machines for METRO-was pretty impressive.The had to install temporary 480V three pahse to the tunnel entrances to run it.The "spoil"(dug tunnel debris) was dumpted on the area where I built a radio station.Was interesting for the tower erection crew-they had to drill thru car sized bolders for the tower guy anchor and base footings.The station BOUGHT several sets of carbide drill cutters!

 

[Designgeek]

Mike- thanks for posting those pics. Very interesting.

Question is, where's the water inlet and outlet? And if one leaves the outlet in the sink, presumably it doesn't drain until the switch is set to the drain position?

What's the thing that looks like a knob that's to the left of the main control cluster?

Also, what's the washing action? Does the pulsator spin in one direction only, or does it reverse direction periodically?

1600 RPM seems like the standard twinnie spinner speed these days. The spin tub seems like it must eject the water at the top (no side perforations), which would make it more suitable for spin/rinses (spin out, add more water to soak, spin again, repeat as needed).

Last but not least, will it wash a pair of blue jeans?

Tolivac- I figured there'd be a problem getting a 50 Hz motor to work on 60 Hz but for a while I had my hopes up about that issue. I was just about to go ahead and order one of these on the basis that I could convert it more easily and then publish the plans here or start doing the conversions for other folks here who want these.

Whoever wants to play guinea-pig, perhaps we can take up a collection to get them one of these effectively free, for the R&D. I'd be interested, anyone else?

Re. tunneling: Yeah, those machines are cool. There is also a 6' diameter version for utility tunnels. Nice to see someone else using the "e" word in its original context of civil engineering. BTW, spoils expand to 50% more than their bank measure, which means you can end up with a heck of a haulage issue on city streets.

Everyone: If you want one of these, email realgoods.com (use the addresses on their contact page) and let them know If they see the demand, they'll place the order from the UK including getting them working on USA mains current. Might take 9 months to get 'em here, but at least they'll be known to work here.

 

[tolivac]

Designgeek:
If you get one of those 50Hz UK machines-maybe-just maybe the motor could be replaced with a 60hz model from Graingers.Its a thought.I wouldn't want to do it with say an expensive TOL model.I thought of using a BOL machine as a "lab rat" .
On the tunneling-Yes I could see the "spoil" hauled and spread in the worksite where the transmitter site I was building.The plant is built on all spoil,and demo waste.Cheap property-thats why the station owners bought it.AM sites require a lot of property for the towers.And the tower footings had to go thru the fill into prime land.Some holes were more than 50 ft down.Interesting to see what the drill rig brought up--One time the bit was brought up and a large peice of rebar was wrapped around it!Surpisingly the ground conductivity was pretty good there. Important for the tower ground system.I am sure the Metro Spoils were dumpted in other places as well.Just know the spoils dug up from the lines going into PG county MD were dumpted at the place I was building at.

 

[kenmore1978]

50 Hz/60 Hz

Didn't WP and Maytag offer 50 Hz pulleys, using the same 60 Hz motor? Didn't seem to hurt those motors, and they had to start under load.

 

[Designgeek]

Here's another possibility.

Mike, can you look at the rating-plate (probably on the underside of your machine) and tell us exactly what it says? Very often I've seen devices that are rated "110 / 240 VAC, 50 / 60 Hz." so we just might get lucky with this one.

 

[doityrselfguy]

Ugh! I want one of those small twin tubs...loved the pictures!! I wish there was a way to purchase internationally for home delivery.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Micro Twinny Rating

Have posted a pic of the rating plate if this helps...

It certainly is a fast washer, the disc impellar spins one way then the other, gentle action is a pause in between the reverse etc...

The spin can does have perfs. you can just see the spray on the outer blue tub in one of the pics..

I fill it using a Hoover twinny pipe, quicker than the very thin flimsy pipe that comes with it and connects to the top next to the controls, (when you remove the cover)

It will drain easily into a bucket, but what a chore....

It will take one pair of jeans, but really splashes about etc...not sure you could use it as a regular washer, fine for one off camping etc..small items....bedding, fleeces, large items , I think a no no...

Glad you guys like the servis....its a very rare model..was the second produced in 1960 and is called "The AutoWash", it has 3 automatic linked heater / timer programmes which automatically heat the water and switch on to agitate for a set number of minutes...

It also has a spin timer as well, which is unheard of on most machines, very advanced for its day, defies me why Servis never kept it in production & updated it to match the Hoover & Hotpoint...which still dont have as many features...the next model in 1961 looks the same but has a wash timer, seperate heater & no spin timer..

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/servishi-zone/lst?.dir=/AutoWash+MK29&.src=gr&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/servishi-zone/lst%3f%26.dir=/AutoWash%2bMK29%26.src=gr%26.view=t&.view=t

 

[Designgeek]

Aw rats, 220 vAC, 50 Hz, the implication of the latter number being "try this in the USA at your own risk, probably won't work."

So we wait for Real Goods or some such, to order enough of these things at one time, that the manufacturer will put USA 60Hz motors in them.

Understood this isn't for large items. Might be a good supplementary machine, for instance "I have to have this particular shirt clean for tomorrow" or "uh-oh, kitty poo!", or "how the heck did I get ketchup on *that*...?!" and of course for camping or somewhere you just can't bring or use a regular size washer (for example offgrid locations running on solar).

Warning: tasteless PG-17-rated humor alert for the following couple of lines!!

Heck, one of these in the White House might have saved a US President: "Monica, put that dress in the micro-twin, right now!" (That plus a box of DNA-Away powdered detergent!)

Instead of draining into a bucket, just park the machine on the kitchen counter next to the sink, and drain direct into the sink. Or use it in the bath tub or next to the shower stall, maybe atop a suitably wide milk crate if needed. Where there's a guy named Will, his partner Way isn't far behind.

Mike, I agree, that Servis machine was a few of decades ahead of its times. Machines that heat their water were rare in the USA any time, and only now we're starting to see that feature on some of the more advanced automatics, typically front loaders. Spin timers are now standard on new (Asian-made) twinnies, just a simple clockwork timer so it surprises me this feature didn't catch on sooner. Having a timer is very useful, i.e. lets one get about other biz whilst spinning-out, e.g. hanging up the previous load on the clotheslines.

 

[bpetersxx]

A new way to twin tub

I tried my haier washers that I got a short time ago as a twin tub setup.

I started one load in the electronic haier then drained the water out into my pulsator haier model.

Then started a second load in the pulsator haier model while the first load finished in the electronic haier

This way I get a twin tub washer like a regular twin tub but can configure them how I want to wash today.

I can use any of my haier washers in any configuration that works best for the task.

 

[Designgeek]

*That* is a clever idea. Two portable automatic top-loaders in tandem, use each for the task it does best.

This suggests all kinds of possibilities with similar configurations. Wash in one, rinse in the other, and each one spins out at the end of its cycle.

Or a Maytag or similar wringer machine, with a separate highspeed centrifuge such as Spin-X. Through the wringer and into the SpinX for a shorter spin cycle than otherwise possible.

For those who think this is more trouble than simply running each load through one machine, with both running simultaneously, the above configurations still save time because a load can be in motion in one machine whilst the other is being drained or filled.

Speaking of high-speed spin: this weekend my sheets came out of the spinner (1600 rpm) so dry that they only needed three hours (!) to hang to bone-dry on the indoor clothes line. When summer comes it will be interesting to see how little time is needed.

 

[kirk280980]

Wow, that micro twin tub looks like it could be a lot of fun! Bigger than I thought it would be, too; having spotted it on eBay previously, the seller's pics made it look tiny.

Regarding the availability of twin tubs, since production stopped here in the UK people are snapping up secondhand machines quicker than ever. Now you can easily find brand new imported Asian machines on eBay, albeit from unknown manufacturers. It wouldn't surprise me if companies such as LG and Samsung eventually got in on the act too, in an effort to exploit the gap in the market left by Hoover and Hotpoint, as they are already making twin tubs for sale in other countries.

Used a Hitachi twin tub a couple of weeks ago while on holiday in Australia, and it was quite an experience. Similar in some ways to using a British twin tub, yet also completely different at the same time. Had to learn the ropes as I went along, but once I had it all figured out the whole process was very quick and rather enjoyable!

 

[Designgeek]

LG makes a wide range of TTs in Asia; I think Samsung has a few also. These will probably find their way into the UK market, and hopefully into the USA market as well.

re. Hitachi: Hmm, interesting!, what were the differences?

re. the Micro:

Don't I wish those were made for 60-hz mains power! It would be nice if someone here were brave enough to try it, using only a transformer to turn the 120 volts into 240 volts or whatever it is they run on in the UK. Maybe someone who would still keep the machine as a museum piece even if it turned out to not work on USA power? Or someone who could retrofit 60-hz 120vAC motors?

Anyone up for a guinea-pig run with one of these?

I'm vaguely interested in guinea-pigging the micro dryer, so we could each report back on results.

 

[kirk280980]

Designgeek,

The most obvious difference between the Hitachi and British-style twin tubs was the lack of automatic rinse in the spinner. Instead, the Hitachi uses an overflow rinse, whereby cold water is fed continuously into the washtub during pulsation. Excess water would then overflow through an opening near the top of the tub, along with the suds and suspended soil, and be pumped away through the outlet hose.

Wash action was the other main difference, using the standard Asian setup of a reversing pulsator at the bottom of the tub rather than an agitator. At first I didn't expect great things, assuming the clothes would float on top of the water with little action, but they actually got quite a good workout.

Spin speed was slower too, 1800 rpm if I remember correctly. UK twin tubs could reach speeds of up to 3100 rpm, so the difference was noticeable.

All in all, very efficient and great fun, but I think for me the novelty would soon wear off... I've been spoiled by automatics, and would miss their convenience.

 

[yaktx]

60 vs. 50 Hz

Hi. I'm Eric. I've been lurking for awhile. I came looking for info on Bendix washers (had thought they only made brakes), but I can't stay away.

Here are some crazy ideas:

50 Hz induction motors can run on 60 Hz but not vice-versa. A motor running on a lower frequency than its design will draw proportionately higher current, as the frequency determines the rotation speed. Lower speeds mean higher flux. A 60 Hz motor running on 50 Hz will draw about 17% more current than it does at 60 Hz, IIRC. It will run fine for awhile, but eventually it will burn out. Running a motor on a higher frequency does not lead to this problem. I hooked up numerous European motors to 60 Hz when I was in industry. They needed transformers to supply the 380-415 voltage, but that was it.

(I wish I could find the link to the essay on this subject written by an engineer who lives in Barbados, or somewhere else in the Caribbean that has 120V 50 Hz.)

The real issue is what happens when the tub is driven at a higher RPM than its design. I don't know the design RPM, but it will turn about 20% faster on 60 Hz. Is that safe? I don't know. Probably safer than running a grinding wheel above its rated speed!

Any induction motor can be run on a different frequency if the voltage is changed to compensate. I remember seeing a nameplate for a refrigerator (sorry, don't remember the make or the vintage) which said 120 volts 60 cycles/ 100 volts 50 cycles. Voltage can be raised or lowered incrementally if you have a variac. Keep in mind, you will need one rated at least 1 kW; more, if this appliance contains heaters and all the goodies European washers have that ours don't.

If you are up for spending some serious cash, and don't mind a little tinkering, there are always variable frequency drives. Yes, they're expensive, but nowadays they are common enough that you can probably find a used one on eBay for less than you think. They are not without maintenance problems, though, and most of them are built for 3-phase. Also, I don't know what they do to the washer controls. Presumably, this thing is so low end that it is all electromechanical, so frequency would affect the control.

I found the link! http://www.henkpasman.com/ Curacao, not Barbados.

Oh, and maybe I'm wrong about using 50 Hz motors on 60 Hz. Mr. Pasman says I need to use a transformer, and step up the voltage to 180 (make that 360, since it is a 240V motor). Look for variacs on eBay! (And you might want to bolt it down like an old Bendix!)

Seriously, I'm not sure any of this is a good idea. 360 volts on a transformer designed for 240? Or an appliance designed for 240? And most 120V variacs I've seen only go up to 140. Fun exercise, though, thinking about how you could do this if you were crazy enough!

I'd wait for Real Goods to import this in a 120V 60Hz version.

 

[launderess]

Don't know much about this, but do know 3000 is about the safe level to pull with a step up transformer in the United States. Higher than that and one really should hardwire the transformer into the electrical system.

Case in point my Pfaff ironer runs 220/240 at 50hz according to the plate, with total watts of 3100. Heater alone pulls about 2000, the steam boiler and pump 1,100. Ironer works fine on a step up transformer (convertering 120v to 220), and heats evenly up to "high" max power. If I start the steam boiler while using the high heat setting, the transformer's circut breaker will trip, and or the fuse. In one case the entire transformer fried. Was warned never to exceed max voltage even by a little, and it is better to oversize a transformer than under. In other words I could use a 4000 or 5000 watt transformer and run both steam and heat with no problems, but pulling that much power really requires hard wiring.

IIRC our electrican told us most homes in the United States have outlets whose wiring only allows up to about 3000 watts. Over that and one runs the risk of burning down the house as the wiring simply gets too hot handling such a load.

Usually it is not the motor on washing machines that is bothered by going from 50hz to 60hz but the electronics. You'll notice most home computers can be switched to run on either 50hz or 60hz depending upon what country they are sold/used in. Washing machines do not have this. True the motor will run faster, as probably the timer.

Someone over on THS was running his AEG washers in the States on a transformer with 60hz, with no problems. Cycles just ran a bit faster,but AEG Canada provided him with a chart showing the adjustments for faster cycle times.

Launderess