Micro twin-tubs

[chestermikeuk]

Micro Twinny Rating

Have posted a pic of the rating plate if this helps...

It certainly is a fast washer, the disc impellar spins one way then the other, gentle action is a pause in between the reverse etc...

The spin can does have perfs. you can just see the spray on the outer blue tub in one of the pics..

I fill it using a Hoover twinny pipe, quicker than the very thin flimsy pipe that comes with it and connects to the top next to the controls, (when you remove the cover)

It will drain easily into a bucket, but what a chore....

It will take one pair of jeans, but really splashes about etc...not sure you could use it as a regular washer, fine for one off camping etc..small items....bedding, fleeces, large items , I think a no no...

Glad you guys like the servis....its a very rare model..was the second produced in 1960 and is called "The AutoWash", it has 3 automatic linked heater / timer programmes which automatically heat the water and switch on to agitate for a set number of minutes...

It also has a spin timer as well, which is unheard of on most machines, very advanced for its day, defies me why Servis never kept it in production & updated it to match the Hoover & Hotpoint...which still dont have as many features...the next model in 1961 looks the same but has a wash timer, seperate heater & no spin timer..

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/grou...?&.dir=/AutoWash+MK29&.src=gr&.view=t&.view=t

 

[Designgeek]

Aw rats, 220 vAC, 50 Hz, the implication of the latter number being "try this in the USA at your own risk, probably won't work."

So we wait for Real Goods or some such, to order enough of these things at one time, that the manufacturer will put USA 60Hz motors in them.

Understood this isn't for large items. Might be a good supplementary machine, for instance "I have to have this particular shirt clean for tomorrow" or "uh-oh, kitty poo!", or "how the heck did I get ketchup on *that*...?!" and of course for camping or somewhere you just can't bring or use a regular size washer (for example offgrid locations running on solar).

Warning: tasteless PG-17-rated humor alert for the following couple of lines!!

Heck, one of these in the White House might have saved a US President: "Monica, put that dress in the micro-twin, right now!" (That plus a box of DNA-Away powdered detergent!)

Instead of draining into a bucket, just park the machine on the kitchen counter next to the sink, and drain direct into the sink. Or use it in the bath tub or next to the shower stall, maybe atop a suitably wide milk crate if needed. Where there's a guy named Will, his partner Way isn't far behind.

Mike, I agree, that Servis machine was a few of decades ahead of its times. Machines that heat their water were rare in the USA any time, and only now we're starting to see that feature on some of the more advanced automatics, typically front loaders. Spin timers are now standard on new (Asian-made) twinnies, just a simple clockwork timer so it surprises me this feature didn't catch on sooner. Having a timer is very useful, i.e. lets one get about other biz whilst spinning-out, e.g. hanging up the previous load on the clotheslines.

 

[bpetersxx]

A new way to twin tub

I tried my haier washers that I got a short time ago as a twin tub setup.

I started one load in the electronic haier then drained the water out into my pulsator haier model.

Then started a second load in the pulsator haier model while the first load finished in the electronic haier

This way I get a twin tub washer like a regular twin tub but can configure them how I want to wash today.

I can use any of my haier washers in any configuration that works best for the task.

 

[Designgeek]

*That* is a clever idea. Two portable automatic top-loaders in tandem, use each for the task it does best.

This suggests all kinds of possibilities with similar configurations. Wash in one, rinse in the other, and each one spins out at the end of its cycle.

Or a Maytag or similar wringer machine, with a separate highspeed centrifuge such as Spin-X. Through the wringer and into the SpinX for a shorter spin cycle than otherwise possible.

For those who think this is more trouble than simply running each load through one machine, with both running simultaneously, the above configurations still save time because a load can be in motion in one machine whilst the other is being drained or filled.

Speaking of high-speed spin: this weekend my sheets came out of the spinner (1600 rpm) so dry that they only needed three hours (!) to hang to bone-dry on the indoor clothes line. When summer comes it will be interesting to see how little time is needed.

 

[kirk280980]

Wow, that micro twin tub looks like it could be a lot of fun! Bigger than I thought it would be, too; having spotted it on eBay previously, the seller's pics made it look tiny.

Regarding the availability of twin tubs, since production stopped here in the UK people are snapping up secondhand machines quicker than ever. Now you can easily find brand new imported Asian machines on eBay, albeit from unknown manufacturers. It wouldn't surprise me if companies such as LG and Samsung eventually got in on the act too, in an effort to exploit the gap in the market left by Hoover and Hotpoint, as they are already making twin tubs for sale in other countries.

Used a Hitachi twin tub a couple of weeks ago while on holiday in Australia, and it was quite an experience. Similar in some ways to using a British twin tub, yet also completely different at the same time. Had to learn the ropes as I went along, but once I had it all figured out the whole process was very quick and rather enjoyable!

 

[Designgeek]

LG makes a wide range of TTs in Asia; I think Samsung has a few also. These will probably find their way into the UK market, and hopefully into the USA market as well.

re. Hitachi: Hmm, interesting!, what were the differences?

re. the Micro:

Don't I wish those were made for 60-hz mains power! It would be nice if someone here were brave enough to try it, using only a transformer to turn the 120 volts into 240 volts or whatever it is they run on in the UK. Maybe someone who would still keep the machine as a museum piece even if it turned out to not work on USA power? Or someone who could retrofit 60-hz 120vAC motors?

Anyone up for a guinea-pig run with one of these?

I'm vaguely interested in guinea-pigging the micro dryer, so we could each report back on results.

 

[kirk280980]

Designgeek,

The most obvious difference between the Hitachi and British-style twin tubs was the lack of automatic rinse in the spinner. Instead, the Hitachi uses an overflow rinse, whereby cold water is fed continuously into the washtub during pulsation. Excess water would then overflow through an opening near the top of the tub, along with the suds and suspended soil, and be pumped away through the outlet hose.

Wash action was the other main difference, using the standard Asian setup of a reversing pulsator at the bottom of the tub rather than an agitator. At first I didn't expect great things, assuming the clothes would float on top of the water with little action, but they actually got quite a good workout.

Spin speed was slower too, 1800 rpm if I remember correctly. UK twin tubs could reach speeds of up to 3100 rpm, so the difference was noticeable.

All in all, very efficient and great fun, but I think for me the novelty would soon wear off... I've been spoiled by automatics, and would miss their convenience.

 

[yaktx]

60 vs. 50 Hz

Hi. I'm Eric. I've been lurking for awhile. I came looking for info on Bendix washers (had thought they only made brakes), but I can't stay away.

Here are some crazy ideas:

50 Hz induction motors can run on 60 Hz but not vice-versa. A motor running on a lower frequency than its design will draw proportionately higher current, as the frequency determines the rotation speed. Lower speeds mean higher flux. A 60 Hz motor running on 50 Hz will draw about 17% more current than it does at 60 Hz, IIRC. It will run fine for awhile, but eventually it will burn out. Running a motor on a higher frequency does not lead to this problem. I hooked up numerous European motors to 60 Hz when I was in industry. They needed transformers to supply the 380-415 voltage, but that was it.

(I wish I could find the link to the essay on this subject written by an engineer who lives in Barbados, or somewhere else in the Caribbean that has 120V 50 Hz.)

The real issue is what happens when the tub is driven at a higher RPM than its design. I don't know the design RPM, but it will turn about 20% faster on 60 Hz. Is that safe? I don't know. Probably safer than running a grinding wheel above its rated speed!

Any induction motor can be run on a different frequency if the voltage is changed to compensate. I remember seeing a nameplate for a refrigerator (sorry, don't remember the make or the vintage) which said 120 volts 60 cycles/ 100 volts 50 cycles. Voltage can be raised or lowered incrementally if you have a variac. Keep in mind, you will need one rated at least 1 kW; more, if this appliance contains heaters and all the goodies European washers have that ours don't.

If you are up for spending some serious cash, and don't mind a little tinkering, there are always variable frequency drives. Yes, they're expensive, but nowadays they are common enough that you can probably find a used one on eBay for less than you think. They are not without maintenance problems, though, and most of them are built for 3-phase. Also, I don't know what they do to the washer controls. Presumably, this thing is so low end that it is all electromechanical, so frequency would affect the control.

I found the link! http://www.henkpasman.com/ Curacao, not Barbados.

Oh, and maybe I'm wrong about using 50 Hz motors on 60 Hz. Mr. Pasman says I need to use a transformer, and step up the voltage to 180 (make that 360, since it is a 240V motor). Look for variacs on eBay! (And you might want to bolt it down like an old Bendix!)

Seriously, I'm not sure any of this is a good idea. 360 volts on a transformer designed for 240? Or an appliance designed for 240? And most 120V variacs I've seen only go up to 140. Fun exercise, though, thinking about how you could do this if you were crazy enough!

I'd wait for Real Goods to import this in a 120V 60Hz version.

 

[launderess]

Don't know much about this, but do know 3000 is about the safe level to pull with a step up transformer in the United States. Higher than that and one really should hardwire the transformer into the electrical system.

Case in point my Pfaff ironer runs 220/240 at 50hz according to the plate, with total watts of 3100. Heater alone pulls about 2000, the steam boiler and pump 1,100. Ironer works fine on a step up transformer (convertering 120v to 220), and heats evenly up to "high" max power. If I start the steam boiler while using the high heat setting, the transformer's circut breaker will trip, and or the fuse. In one case the entire transformer fried. Was warned never to exceed max voltage even by a little, and it is better to oversize a transformer than under. In other words I could use a 4000 or 5000 watt transformer and run both steam and heat with no problems, but pulling that much power really requires hard wiring.

IIRC our electrican told us most homes in the United States have outlets whose wiring only allows up to about 3000 watts. Over that and one runs the risk of burning down the house as the wiring simply gets too hot handling such a load.

Usually it is not the motor on washing machines that is bothered by going from 50hz to 60hz but the electronics. You'll notice most home computers can be switched to run on either 50hz or 60hz depending upon what country they are sold/used in. Washing machines do not have this. True the motor will run faster, as probably the timer.

Someone over on THS was running his AEG washers in the States on a transformer with 60hz, with no problems. Cycles just ran a bit faster,but AEG Canada provided him with a chart showing the adjustments for faster cycle times.

Launderess

 

[kenmore1978]

3000 watts

Laundress, you might wantt to go ahead and install a 220 volt 30 amp dryer-type outlet for that ironer. Or, you might get away with a 220 volt 20 amp outlet (some room A/C units use this, the outlet has 2 horizontal slots and the ground hole instead of the 2 vertical slots or 1 vertical and one horizontal or T-shaped slot and ground hole 110 volt 15 and 20 amp outlets have)

 

[yaktx]

circuit capacity

"IIRC our electrican told us most homes in the United States have outlets whose wiring only allows up to about 3000 watts. Over that and one runs the risk of burning down the house as the wiring simply gets too hot handling such a load."

Less than 3000. 2400 tops for a kitchen or laundry circuit, and in some areas, not more than 1800 watts for outlets elsewhere in the house. I definitely wouldn't connect a step-up transformer to a 120 volt circuit for this much load!

It is much cheaper and safer to install a properly-rated 240V circuit. If you have an electric dryer, you have a circuit that is rated for 7200 watts, or 5760 for continuous use of 3 hours or more. This requires #10 wire. If you have an electric range, it may be on a circuit that is rated for 12,000 watts, or 9600 continuously. This requires #6 wire. Compare this to the much smaller #12 or #14 wire in most household circuits!

I'm not familiar with ironers. The heater and steam boiler are resistive loads which are unaffected by frequency. If the pump is a small one, it may be rated 50/60 Hz.

Is this AEG washer rated 50 Hz only? I'd be interested to know how long it has been running on 60 Hz. I suspect it is less of a problem than the other way around. Also, if it is not running in a hot place, might not kill it.

 

[yaktx]

Here's another silly idea!

http://www.interpower.com/pcc/pipslist.htm
Too bad it's only rated 1250 VA, but that's enough for this washer.

The price list on this site is virtually indecipherable. I'm pretty sure I don't want to know how much this puppy costs anyway.

 

[DADoES]

Another Texan! Welcome to the group!

 

[Designgeek]

Hmm, I guess I won't be messing around with power conversions...

Kirk, interesting infos; your comparisons are a good summary of the differences between the UK machines and the Asian ones. Folks in the UK typically use the auto-rinse/spin function, and I think it's related to the higher spin speeds.

I wonder what the power consumption is, for those 3100-rpm spinners, i.e. how many watts the motor draws. Power consumption on my Danby (Asian-made, 1600-rpm spin) is 100 watts, and the loads come out sufficiently dry that they'll hang-dry on an indoor line in about six hours (overnight when it's cold).

I'm also wondering about comparative water usage for the UK spin/rinse vs. the Asian flow-through rinse in the washtub. The flow-through rinse requires a full washtub, about 15 gallons, but once the rinsewater is going through clean (i.e. without visible suds), it can be used for the subsequent wash load. BTW, don't try the spin/rinse routine in a machine that doesn't have controls set up for it; that means it's not designed for it. I tried it and the motor didn't like it one bit, which got me back to my "soak in minimal water in the washtub, spin out, repeat" routine.

Curiosity is contagious; looks like I'm going to be experimenting some more here over the weekend