angus
Well-known member
Been watching the Weather Channel for the past two nights and see that the Midwest is getting pummeled. How are our members doing? Iowa and Nebraska look particularly hard hit.
Midwest Storms - Is Everyone OK?
- Thread starter angus
- Start date
vinvac
Well-known member
Things are good so far here in Dubuque, I think we were lucky again and it went south.
We had terrible thunderstorms all night last night and into the morning. Twice, the lightening raised me out of bed...I am sure a tree somewhere close to the house got nailed...it rattled everything.
Flooding is now a problem for many of the area towns. Kids have been taken to school via fire trucks to ensure thier safety.
Morgan
We had terrible thunderstorms all night last night and into the morning. Twice, the lightening raised me out of bed...I am sure a tree somewhere close to the house got nailed...it rattled everything.
Flooding is now a problem for many of the area towns. Kids have been taken to school via fire trucks to ensure thier safety.
Morgan
hoover1060
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,309
All quiet around Chicago
At last tonight anyway. There were several times today I thought it would really pour and storm, but it all just kept going right by!
At last tonight anyway. There were several times today I thought it would really pour and storm, but it all just kept going right by!
classiccaprice
Well-known member
Not rain, not sleet, not snow, nor hail, will keep the children from the last days of school!
We're all about severe thunderstorms, flash flood watches and tornado watches in southwestern Minnesota. We had over two inches of rain in under an hour early this afternoon. Then around 6:00 p.m., it started getting hot and muggy. Classic tornado weather. I have the weather radio set to alert me if anything enters the area. I hate it when we have tornado watches overnight.
Hang on tight, upper midwesterners!
Hang on tight, upper midwesterners!
Hope all are well..
Dodged last night's storms, tonight's were south of us again. Lots of rain, wind and amazing thunder. Storms can be very frightening and certainly dangerous, but you have to have to admire that much power and beauty! I used to love thunderstorms as a kid and spending summers at my grandparent's, I had a great view from my 2nd floor bedroom spent hours watching them roll and churn over the prairie. We live in a valley now and although I'm somewhat protected from extreme winds, I miss seeing the sky during a storm.
This photo was supposedly taken 5/29 near Kearney, NE - but then, who knows for sure? Mike, Louis, Jon, Eddy and Robert can give you a vivid account of a scary storm from their trip back to Minne from the convention in '05 - that was a whopper!
Dodged last night's storms, tonight's were south of us again. Lots of rain, wind and amazing thunder. Storms can be very frightening and certainly dangerous, but you have to have to admire that much power and beauty! I used to love thunderstorms as a kid and spending summers at my grandparent's, I had a great view from my 2nd floor bedroom spent hours watching them roll and churn over the prairie. We live in a valley now and although I'm somewhat protected from extreme winds, I miss seeing the sky during a storm.
This photo was supposedly taken 5/29 near Kearney, NE - but then, who knows for sure? Mike, Louis, Jon, Eddy and Robert can give you a vivid account of a scary storm from their trip back to Minne from the convention in '05 - that was a whopper!
whirlcool
Well-known member
Wow, what a fantastic photo. You can see all the air being sucked into the mesocyclone.
In 1966 Braniff lost a BAC-111 jet in a town named "Falls City, NB" It flew into a tornado at about 11:00pm that night. Needless to say the plane came apart in midair and nobody survived.
In 1966 Braniff lost a BAC-111 jet in a town named "Falls City, NB" It flew into a tornado at about 11:00pm that night. Needless to say the plane came apart in midair and nobody survived.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
We dodge it here in ICT last night
We had some high winds up to 100mph in areas. We were in the basement for about 45 minutes (with no power) but tornados passed us by.
Enough already--we had over 13 inches of rain in May, 11 of it over the Memorial weekend. Now everything is saturated and everytime someone flushes the toliet we have flash flood warnings.
Kansas is known for our tornados, but every night with rain and hail the size of watermelons--"Give me a break"
Related subject with rant attached--My insurance company just notifed me that they are doubling my homeowner's rates. Why? you ask. Because they found the house had a hail claim in 2007. I reminded them that I bought the house in 2007. Doesn't matter their system tracks claims not ownership. To think those two nice ladies I bought the house from had left the house out in a hail storm. Now isn't that what you have insurance for anyway, and how are you supposed to prevent it?
Another reason they gave for raising my rates--I show a collection on my credit report. Do you want to know what caused that collection? It was when American Family Insurance didn't pay a medical bill after a car wreck in 2004, and I had to sue them over it. It took three years to get them to pay. Now they are holding the collection they caused against me. (dirty word, dirty word, another dirty word.)
We had some high winds up to 100mph in areas. We were in the basement for about 45 minutes (with no power) but tornados passed us by.
Enough already--we had over 13 inches of rain in May, 11 of it over the Memorial weekend. Now everything is saturated and everytime someone flushes the toliet we have flash flood warnings.
Kansas is known for our tornados, but every night with rain and hail the size of watermelons--"Give me a break"
Related subject with rant attached--My insurance company just notifed me that they are doubling my homeowner's rates. Why? you ask. Because they found the house had a hail claim in 2007. I reminded them that I bought the house in 2007. Doesn't matter their system tracks claims not ownership. To think those two nice ladies I bought the house from had left the house out in a hail storm. Now isn't that what you have insurance for anyway, and how are you supposed to prevent it?
Another reason they gave for raising my rates--I show a collection on my credit report. Do you want to know what caused that collection? It was when American Family Insurance didn't pay a medical bill after a car wreck in 2004, and I had to sue them over it. It took three years to get them to pay. Now they are holding the collection they caused against me. (dirty word, dirty word, another dirty word.)
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Sorry correction
The hail claim on the house was in 2006. I bought it in 2007
The hail claim on the house was in 2006. I bought it in 2007
Brent-Aucoin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 887
Glad to hear that you guys are all good.
The weather this past couple of months has been very scary!
It has not rained in Atlanta in ages, and the temps have been in the 90's this week!
Not my kind of weather! Not a summer person, at all!
Brent
The weather this past couple of months has been very scary!
It has not rained in Atlanta in ages, and the temps have been in the 90's this week!
Not my kind of weather! Not a summer person, at all!
Brent
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Last time it looked like this, 22 died
BY STAN FINGER
The Wichita Eagle
Thursday could bring a tornado outbreak to the Great Plains, according to local meteorologists who are warning residents to pay attention to the weather.
Computer forecasting models for the day bear striking similarities to the conditions present on June 8, 1974, when 39 tornadoes touched down in the southern Plains and killed 22 people -- including six in Emporia.
"I think this event warrants more advance warning," said Robb Lawson, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Wichita.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Storm Prediction Center has been warning for days of an outbreak on Thursday.
Forecasters disagree on where the highest risk for tornadoes will be. Many say Iowa and Minnesota, said Mike Smith, chief executive officer of WeatherData Inc., a subsidiary of AccuWeather.
But Smith has his eyes on a corridor stretching from northern Oklahoma to central Iowa -- Enid to Des Moines. That includes Wichita and the surrounding area.
"Certainly Wichita, Topeka, Emporia, Salina, Chanute... essentially the eastern half of Kansas should really be paying attention on Thursday," Smith said.
Temperature and humidity patterns for Thursday are similar to the 1974 outbreak, he said, and a wave of energy in the upper atmosphere is projected to be in exactly the same position as on June 8, 1974.
The 1974 Emporia tornado touched down at about 6 p.m., grew to about a half-mile wide, and struck the city's northwest side, according to weather service archives.
It injured 200 people and caused an estimated $25 million in damage in Lyon County alone, striking a shopping center, mobile home park, nursing home, an apartment complex and residential neighborhoods in Emporia and about 10 farmsteads in the surrounding countryside.
The tornado was rated an F-4 and had a 38-mile track through Lyon, Osage and Shawnee counties.
With so much humidity in place, storms this Thursday could form and quickly become strong, forecasters say.
And with wind speeds in the upper atmosphere resembling early spring patterns, any tornadoes that touch down could move at more than 50 mph.
"If you take April dynamics and June thermodynamics," Smith said, "you have a potentially disastrous combination."
BY STAN FINGER
The Wichita Eagle
Thursday could bring a tornado outbreak to the Great Plains, according to local meteorologists who are warning residents to pay attention to the weather.
Computer forecasting models for the day bear striking similarities to the conditions present on June 8, 1974, when 39 tornadoes touched down in the southern Plains and killed 22 people -- including six in Emporia.
"I think this event warrants more advance warning," said Robb Lawson, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Wichita.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Storm Prediction Center has been warning for days of an outbreak on Thursday.
Forecasters disagree on where the highest risk for tornadoes will be. Many say Iowa and Minnesota, said Mike Smith, chief executive officer of WeatherData Inc., a subsidiary of AccuWeather.
But Smith has his eyes on a corridor stretching from northern Oklahoma to central Iowa -- Enid to Des Moines. That includes Wichita and the surrounding area.
"Certainly Wichita, Topeka, Emporia, Salina, Chanute... essentially the eastern half of Kansas should really be paying attention on Thursday," Smith said.
Temperature and humidity patterns for Thursday are similar to the 1974 outbreak, he said, and a wave of energy in the upper atmosphere is projected to be in exactly the same position as on June 8, 1974.
The 1974 Emporia tornado touched down at about 6 p.m., grew to about a half-mile wide, and struck the city's northwest side, according to weather service archives.
It injured 200 people and caused an estimated $25 million in damage in Lyon County alone, striking a shopping center, mobile home park, nursing home, an apartment complex and residential neighborhoods in Emporia and about 10 farmsteads in the surrounding countryside.
The tornado was rated an F-4 and had a 38-mile track through Lyon, Osage and Shawnee counties.
With so much humidity in place, storms this Thursday could form and quickly become strong, forecasters say.
And with wind speeds in the upper atmosphere resembling early spring patterns, any tornadoes that touch down could move at more than 50 mph.
"If you take April dynamics and June thermodynamics," Smith said, "you have a potentially disastrous combination."
Mike, Louis, Jon, Eddy and Robert can give you a vivid account of a scary storm from their trip back to Minne from the convention in '05 - that was a whopper!
Eh, it got a little windy and rained.
Eh, it got a little windy and rained.
OMG!
Is that picture real?
I´ve never seen something like that in real life.
How big was that one? I mean, which level?
Is that picture real?
I´ve never seen something like that in real life.
How big was that one? I mean, which level?
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Go to this link and you can see some pictures of the damage the EF5 did to Greensburg, KS last year. This tornado was over 1/2 mile wide and stayed on the ground for an hour.
http://www.kansas.com/static/slides/050507tornadoaerials/
http://www.kansas.com/static/slides/050507tornadoaerials/
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Greensburg pictures
The green mangled metal was the water tower. It stood above the building where the worlds larges hand dug well resides. The building housed the worlds largest metior. It was found a few days later unharmed.
The green mangled metal was the water tower. It stood above the building where the worlds larges hand dug well resides. The building housed the worlds largest metior. It was found a few days later unharmed.
Eh, it got a little windy and rained.....
How much of an understatement was that...!!!...LOL, for me who hadnt witnessed anything like that before I thought my life was about to end....I love watching "Tornado Watch" programmes but being in it is a whole different ball game!!!
I think its the unpredictability that has me, one minute your house & life is there , next minute it can all be gone!!
Keep safe everyone!!!!, Mike
How much of an understatement was that...!!!...LOL, for me who hadnt witnessed anything like that before I thought my life was about to end....I love watching "Tornado Watch" programmes but being in it is a whole different ball game!!!
I think its the unpredictability that has me, one minute your house & life is there , next minute it can all be gone!!
Keep safe everyone!!!!, Mike
panthera
Well-known member
The last
two weeks, my folks, dogs and cat have had to head for the basement. They live in the freakin' foothills...tornadoes and really severe hail storms are like once every 70 year events in their part of the US, they have had more touchdowns in the last month then in the last 130 years.
It is so reassuring to know that global warming is just a myth scientists thought up along with evolution and a fairly round planet, orbiting the sun, for more than 6,000 years...
Hell, we even had a tornado here in Hamburg this week - something we used to get over here every few centuries or so...alright, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but seriously - how much worse does it have to get before we start thinking about ways out of this mess?
Having been in a tornado in the middle of Kansas in a VW beatle a few years back, my sincere best wishes go out to all the folks hit and suffering from these things. That is an experience I never want to repeat.
two weeks, my folks, dogs and cat have had to head for the basement. They live in the freakin' foothills...tornadoes and really severe hail storms are like once every 70 year events in their part of the US, they have had more touchdowns in the last month then in the last 130 years.
It is so reassuring to know that global warming is just a myth scientists thought up along with evolution and a fairly round planet, orbiting the sun, for more than 6,000 years...
Hell, we even had a tornado here in Hamburg this week - something we used to get over here every few centuries or so...alright, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but seriously - how much worse does it have to get before we start thinking about ways out of this mess?
Having been in a tornado in the middle of Kansas in a VW beatle a few years back, my sincere best wishes go out to all the folks hit and suffering from these things. That is an experience I never want to repeat.
panthera
Well-known member
Before...
the usual suspects start huffing and puffing, by "we" I mean the entire planet.
Not exclusively the US. Nor predominately the US. China, India and developed Europe have quite a lot of work to do here, too - and most of the political efforts to date have been to point (well-deserved) fingers at the US while otherwise sitting on our hands.
Let's hope things quiet down fast, in contrast to lightening, these severe storms frequently do strike the same place twice.
the usual suspects start huffing and puffing, by "we" I mean the entire planet.
Not exclusively the US. Nor predominately the US. China, India and developed Europe have quite a lot of work to do here, too - and most of the political efforts to date have been to point (well-deserved) fingers at the US while otherwise sitting on our hands.
Let's hope things quiet down fast, in contrast to lightening, these severe storms frequently do strike the same place twice.
~Eh, it got a little windy and rained.
I found it to be quite an exciting trip. There was more wind and rain than I am used to but as a matter of fact we never saw a tornado although we heard the tornado alarm IIRC. I love stormy weather!
BTW Robert, it was great how you explained what happened and what we saw. A trip never to forget!
I found it to be quite an exciting trip. There was more wind and rain than I am used to but as a matter of fact we never saw a tornado although we heard the tornado alarm IIRC. I love stormy weather!
BTW Robert, it was great how you explained what happened and what we saw. A trip never to forget!
panthera
Well-known member
OK,
When someone from the Netherlands says it was wetter and windier than he's is used to...that's understatement to match Robert's.
That must have been quite an adventure!
When someone from the Netherlands says it was wetter and windier than he's is used to...that's understatement to match Robert's.
That must have been quite an adventure!
We all talk the talk when it comes to global warming, but few of us are willing to walk the walk. E.g. Al Gore consumes more than 20 TIMES the national average -- more than $30,000/year of electricity and gas -- in his Belle Meade mansion, while he tells the rest of us to cut our energy use and sign up for freaking carbon credits. Hello???
I sincerely hope oil and gas prices continue their steady march upward. When it hits $200/barrel, or $300, or some amount we'll be motivated to finally break our addiction to fossil fuels. In the meantime I believe there are right and wrong ways to approach the issue of global warming, and government nannyism (totalitarianism) is not the answer. We're already walking around half-showered, in stained underwear, dealing with half-flushed toilets etc because of this Earth-as-victim mentality. Like the "war on terror" this other cesspool of fear mongering has no edges and no bottom.
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_102512.asp
I sincerely hope oil and gas prices continue their steady march upward. When it hits $200/barrel, or $300, or some amount we'll be motivated to finally break our addiction to fossil fuels. In the meantime I believe there are right and wrong ways to approach the issue of global warming, and government nannyism (totalitarianism) is not the answer. We're already walking around half-showered, in stained underwear, dealing with half-flushed toilets etc because of this Earth-as-victim mentality. Like the "war on terror" this other cesspool of fear mongering has no edges and no bottom.
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_102512.asp
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Storm related
What do you think the guy that calls 9-11 to report an Elephant in his backyard was thinking.
Honey--I promise, no more drinking.
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/426563.html
What do you think the guy that calls 9-11 to report an Elephant in his backyard was thinking.
Honey--I promise, no more drinking.
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/426563.html
panthera
Well-known member
Jeff,
Has it occurred to you that there are a lot of truly poor Americans who will suffer tremendously if oil prices reach that point and nothing is done to help them?
I am no fan of the nanny-state. But the price of killing off the working poor strikes me as a bit high.
Survival of the fittest is a sound libertarian principle...as long as one belongs to the exclusive minority who are wealthy and privileged enough to be exempt from the consequences of dissolving society's bonds and mutual aid.
Yes, we need to make some changes, and we needed to make them years ago. Mother Nature never forgets, never forgives, always wins...and you are quite right on one point: The planet doesn't need us. To her, we are but a fart in time. We, however, desperately need her.
The US is not alone in this situation, the whole world needs to work together. But no other industrial country has so completely permitted itself to be held hostage to the whims of their enemies. No other nation has so actively opposed alternative energies and mass transit.
I truly hope that American ingenuity, coupled with sensible laws and regulation can solve this problem.
Having the weakest in your society bare the brunt of it on their already broken backs is not the right answer.
Or are you willing to adjust your lifestyle down to that of the disabled Iraqi vet and his family, to that of the retired couple on a fixed income, no health insurance and no alternatives? If so, than pray forgive my plea for tolerance.
Has it occurred to you that there are a lot of truly poor Americans who will suffer tremendously if oil prices reach that point and nothing is done to help them?
I am no fan of the nanny-state. But the price of killing off the working poor strikes me as a bit high.
Survival of the fittest is a sound libertarian principle...as long as one belongs to the exclusive minority who are wealthy and privileged enough to be exempt from the consequences of dissolving society's bonds and mutual aid.
Yes, we need to make some changes, and we needed to make them years ago. Mother Nature never forgets, never forgives, always wins...and you are quite right on one point: The planet doesn't need us. To her, we are but a fart in time. We, however, desperately need her.
The US is not alone in this situation, the whole world needs to work together. But no other industrial country has so completely permitted itself to be held hostage to the whims of their enemies. No other nation has so actively opposed alternative energies and mass transit.
I truly hope that American ingenuity, coupled with sensible laws and regulation can solve this problem.
Having the weakest in your society bare the brunt of it on their already broken backs is not the right answer.
Or are you willing to adjust your lifestyle down to that of the disabled Iraqi vet and his family, to that of the retired couple on a fixed income, no health insurance and no alternatives? If so, than pray forgive my plea for tolerance.
Panthera,like your qhote on Mother Nature
It reminded me of a quote from Carol Bruce, Mother Carlson from WKRP.
When she was playing pool, her rules were simple.I go first, if you get ahead of me you loose your turn, in the end I win.
Lets face it,Mother Carlson and Mother Nature are both bitches.
No offense Mother Nature, I'm wishing for a nice weekend.
It reminded me of a quote from Carol Bruce, Mother Carlson from WKRP.
When she was playing pool, her rules were simple.I go first, if you get ahead of me you loose your turn, in the end I win.
Lets face it,Mother Carlson and Mother Nature are both bitches.
No offense Mother Nature, I'm wishing for a nice weekend.
Keven, gasoline is $4.50/gallon in my part of California. You'll hear lots and lots of whining, but 9+ out of 10 cars on the road still have just one occupant. At least so far, "suffer" is a rather extreme overstatement.
Likewise I'm not claiming we should "dissolve society's bonds and mutual aid". I'm saying as long as society is not responsible for earning my living or putting food on my table, or paying my energy bill every month, it's certainly not responsible for toilet training me and dictating how much water I'm allowed to use to get spooge stains out of my underwear.
Likewise I'm not claiming we should "dissolve society's bonds and mutual aid". I'm saying as long as society is not responsible for earning my living or putting food on my table, or paying my energy bill every month, it's certainly not responsible for toilet training me and dictating how much water I'm allowed to use to get spooge stains out of my underwear.
whirlcool
Well-known member
What is actually causing this years tornado problem actually is the reverse of warm, it's the cold.
After this past years horribly cold winter and record snowfall, the air over the Rocky Mountains is much colder this year than in previous years. Combine this colder than normal air with the warm and very moist Gulf Coast air that is rushing up into the Midwest whenever a pressure system passes by and you have the formula for a higher than average tornado season.
After this past years horribly cold winter and record snowfall, the air over the Rocky Mountains is much colder this year than in previous years. Combine this colder than normal air with the warm and very moist Gulf Coast air that is rushing up into the Midwest whenever a pressure system passes by and you have the formula for a higher than average tornado season.
Brent-Aucoin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 887
The storms are all so terrible! Hopefully it will all be over soon!?
The talk about the price for fuel.... I hate it! However....
I love the fact that I pull up to the red light here in Atlanta with "rich" people in Hummers, Huge SUV's, etc., that can't even run their air-conditioners in their buses because they can afford the car monthly note, not to mention the gas, with 90+ temperatures!!!
They all look at me with the air blowing full blast, hair flowing, make up flawless....you get the picture, in my VW Passat Wagon, Or my older Audi, that averages 37 MPG on the highway, like I have done something to them!
Sorry, but I did not mean to offend, but I hope you can keep your lifestyle up since you are the reason why we have no gas in the first place!!!
Boy am I cool, in more ways than one!
I am however, sick of the gas prices.
My VW Passat wagon when I bought it in 2004 used to cost me $22 to fill up. And that was with Super Unleaded! It now cost me to fill up, close to $60.00 with regular unleaded. Terrible, and I am afraid that it is only going to get worse.
Brent
The talk about the price for fuel.... I hate it! However....
I love the fact that I pull up to the red light here in Atlanta with "rich" people in Hummers, Huge SUV's, etc., that can't even run their air-conditioners in their buses because they can afford the car monthly note, not to mention the gas, with 90+ temperatures!!!
They all look at me with the air blowing full blast, hair flowing, make up flawless....you get the picture, in my VW Passat Wagon, Or my older Audi, that averages 37 MPG on the highway, like I have done something to them!
Sorry, but I did not mean to offend, but I hope you can keep your lifestyle up since you are the reason why we have no gas in the first place!!!
Boy am I cool, in more ways than one!
I am however, sick of the gas prices.
My VW Passat wagon when I bought it in 2004 used to cost me $22 to fill up. And that was with Super Unleaded! It now cost me to fill up, close to $60.00 with regular unleaded. Terrible, and I am afraid that it is only going to get worse.
Brent
panthera
Well-known member
Jeff,
I may have been overly harsh in passing judgment and I apologize. Many of the words and phrases you use are the same as are used by the libertarians and far-right republicans who truly don't care what happens to the weaker people in society. Sure, let the market regulate it...but at what cost to society?
I have avoided discussing the price of gasoline here in Europe because, for most Americans, that would be a provocation. We do pay enormously more for energy here - I pay 10 times more per kilowatt than my parents, for example. Gas (Methane) is indexed to the price of oil here and that means obscene heating bills. And yes, gasoline is more than twice as expensive here. All our appliances are water saving and yet Americans who visit here universally praise the higher quality of our washers and dishwashers...and while nobody cares for German Toilets...these absurd problems the American water saving toilets have had are unknown here.
The question for me is simple: At what point are my private activities doing harm to society? I do not use drugs and do not advocate their use. But if it were up to me, I'd legalize the whole spectrum for 18 year olds and above. You'd have to cart the dead bodies away for awhile, but eventually you'd reach the equilibrium we have with other drugs. And the billions we pump into this losing war every year could be better spent.
The same with gay marriage - I fail to understand the position of those (especially those among ourselves!) who seek to discriminate against us by forbidding it. If you don't want to marry another person of your own sex, don't. But get the fcuk out of my life.
Water, gasoline, methane, etc. fall into a slightly different area. These commodities are limited or entail enormous recycling/processing costs...or, worse, they are irreplaceable in other fields. You don't have to power your car with gasoline. I'd like to see a farmer cope without petroleum based fertilizers and portable power. No way.
Regardless of how one feels about global warming (man made or natural) it is a fact that our climate is warming up. Any reasonable person (especially a conservative in the Eisenhower/Goldwater sense and not the Neo-Cons) would want to minimize additional warming, at least until we know for sure what the consequences will be.
And, if you will forgive my very long rant, there is the question of why on earth the US insists on giving money to her worst enemies? The oil producing countries - except for Norway and a handful of others - are nearly all committed to the destruction of civil rights, the destruction of Israel, the US and or all three. And yet, through decades of opposition to any attempts to reduce dependency, the West - especially the US - is now dependent on these horrid regimes.
My home town of Fort Collins, Colorado blocked all attempts at an intrastate and interstate regional transportation cooperative, right through this spring. Now, with the price of gas hurting the businesses in the Chamber of Commerce, guess who is screaming about how "democrats in Washington" have caused the problem! Sheesh.
Between roughly 300-1200 CE we saw what happens when commerce breaks down beyond the local level and the poorest of the poor are left to their own devices. Leaving things purely up to the market would, in my opinion, result in a similar catastrophe.
I may have been overly harsh in passing judgment and I apologize. Many of the words and phrases you use are the same as are used by the libertarians and far-right republicans who truly don't care what happens to the weaker people in society. Sure, let the market regulate it...but at what cost to society?
I have avoided discussing the price of gasoline here in Europe because, for most Americans, that would be a provocation. We do pay enormously more for energy here - I pay 10 times more per kilowatt than my parents, for example. Gas (Methane) is indexed to the price of oil here and that means obscene heating bills. And yes, gasoline is more than twice as expensive here. All our appliances are water saving and yet Americans who visit here universally praise the higher quality of our washers and dishwashers...and while nobody cares for German Toilets...these absurd problems the American water saving toilets have had are unknown here.
The question for me is simple: At what point are my private activities doing harm to society? I do not use drugs and do not advocate their use. But if it were up to me, I'd legalize the whole spectrum for 18 year olds and above. You'd have to cart the dead bodies away for awhile, but eventually you'd reach the equilibrium we have with other drugs. And the billions we pump into this losing war every year could be better spent.
The same with gay marriage - I fail to understand the position of those (especially those among ourselves!) who seek to discriminate against us by forbidding it. If you don't want to marry another person of your own sex, don't. But get the fcuk out of my life.
Water, gasoline, methane, etc. fall into a slightly different area. These commodities are limited or entail enormous recycling/processing costs...or, worse, they are irreplaceable in other fields. You don't have to power your car with gasoline. I'd like to see a farmer cope without petroleum based fertilizers and portable power. No way.
Regardless of how one feels about global warming (man made or natural) it is a fact that our climate is warming up. Any reasonable person (especially a conservative in the Eisenhower/Goldwater sense and not the Neo-Cons) would want to minimize additional warming, at least until we know for sure what the consequences will be.
And, if you will forgive my very long rant, there is the question of why on earth the US insists on giving money to her worst enemies? The oil producing countries - except for Norway and a handful of others - are nearly all committed to the destruction of civil rights, the destruction of Israel, the US and or all three. And yet, through decades of opposition to any attempts to reduce dependency, the West - especially the US - is now dependent on these horrid regimes.
My home town of Fort Collins, Colorado blocked all attempts at an intrastate and interstate regional transportation cooperative, right through this spring. Now, with the price of gas hurting the businesses in the Chamber of Commerce, guess who is screaming about how "democrats in Washington" have caused the problem! Sheesh.
Between roughly 300-1200 CE we saw what happens when commerce breaks down beyond the local level and the poorest of the poor are left to their own devices. Leaving things purely up to the market would, in my opinion, result in a similar catastrophe.
Keven, no apology necessary. It's often a fine line between espousing libertarian values and coming off as a raging right-wing Spawn of Satan. I mean just look at who this year's presidential candidate is for the Libertarian Party. Yikes! This is the same clown who sponsored the federal "Defense of Marriage Act" in 1996.
Similar threads
