Miele Brand Commercial Grade Dishwasher (For Home Use) $5,485

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• Hot or cold water connection
NOTE: Hot water connection recommended for peak performance

Didja ever think you'd see the day that a Euro DW recommends a hot fill?

• Powerful 106 gallon/minute circulation pump
How does this compare to others?
What was Kitchen Aid's pumping rate claim-to-fame?
 
Hot water on European machines

This is actually not a new idea; it has been done before, on domestic machines.

There was a dishwasher brand called 'Moffat', that may or may not have been exclusive to the energy shops, like British Gas Showrooms. Apparently, it had both hot & cold fill hoses, in order to take advantage of the cheaper gas-heated hot water.

But this was about twenty years ago now!
 
Cold Water Filling

Does not always equal energy savings in either washing machines or dishwashers.

Several factors must be taken into account, including as mentioned upthread, cost of heating water via gas, and or cost of heated water from a central hot water heater.

That is to say if one has a ready supply of 120F water that can reach the dishwasher at that temp, there is little to gain from heating cold water up, especially if one has a tank hot water heater where water is sitting there anyway.
 
Few interesting tidbits:

Like all true commercial dishwashers, the Miele has a programme that will hold the final rinse water for use in the next cycle. Obviously if one is not going to use the machine again right away, water must then be drained.

Both top and lower racks come out totally, but require a quite large array of additional items to make loading the same as one would with a normal domestic unit.

If Miele thought Amercians objected to having one 220v power line installed (where one did not already exsist)for laundry appliances, it is going to take some doing to for the same market to have TWO 220v/30amp lines installed in their kitchen. Perhaps not a problem if one is building or doing a complete overhaul of the kitchen, but that is an awful lot of power. Can see electricans in upscale areas now planning that new pool or summer house! *LOL*

Seems to be only one spray arm, unless the other is located on top of the inside. If that is the case,then yes it is going to need to move water along the lines of older Hobart Kitchenaid units to reach both levels for good cleaning and rinsing.

L.
 
Commercials

I`ve used the G7856 and it certainly does the job especially if you need quick batches completed...if its plates n large glasses, (not stems) them these will take anything thrown at them..

g7856 has a pump pushing 400lt minute, 3phase 400v 50hz, heater rating is 8.7kw (hot) total fused load is 9.4amps,
can complete in one hour 257plates + 797 pieces of cutlery in lower basket and 365 pieces of crockery in upper basket...

My question is how many people did it take to stack, unload, stack, unload to measure how much it could do in one hour!!!...???
 
No Need For Manual Labour

When we have our friend Mr. Algerbra.

Not sure how the formula would run, but all the required information would be at hand to do the math. Afterall if one knows what will fit in the racks,and if one knows how long the cycles are, it is only a matter of doing the sums to come up with how long it would take "X" amount of racks to be done in "X" amount of time.
 
There is an upper arm for each upper basket style; You can see it in the photos in Tog's "baskets of interest" post, above.

Water shoots down in a column from the top of the tub into the hollow post in the center of the upper rack, then out into the arm, which shoots it back up. A fairly inefficient use of water power, but apparently this machine is steroidal, so results may be better than that of, say, a Frigidaire DW, which uses the same principle for its upper rack (or at least it did when I owned one a few years back...)

I would LOVE to have one of these Miele machines. I'm the textbook-case customer for it. I do a lot of entertaining and would benefit from a machine in which plates, flatware and glasses can be washed in 10 minutes.

However, I do not have space in my fusebox for two 200-volt lines. Nor do I have $5,000.

Buzzzzzz: Dream over!

;)
 
I did play with it at Basco where they have one live

I fell in LOVE wth it almost a year ago. When I move to my new house, I would consider it. My sales person, when I broached the idea with him, said I could get as much dishwasher with a domestic model that would be fine for my needs, belive it or not wants to talk me out of it. At the moment, it is all hypothetical any way. I have to wait to move, it is a pretty serious hook up, plus they are loud machines compared to the ultra quiet units that they have now. It is funny, the program indicator counts up instead of down. I have a thing for commercial things, I always have.
 
Keeping in mind that true commercial dishwashers mainly finish the job previously done by hand washing. One wonders how well this uber-sized dishwasher would do with a Consumer's Report type test. You know, packed full of grossly filthy dishes (and not just with sauce,but really tough foods like oatmeal, rice, etc),in only 10 minutes.

L.
 
For Chr**t's Sake!

"If Miele thought Amercians objected to having one 220v power line installed (where one did not already exsist)for laundry appliances, it is going to take some doing to for the same market to have TWO 220v/30amp lines installed in their kitchen."

Why the hell then don't they or LG start marketing(as I've asked for a million times)a large capacity front loader that runs on 220V so I can have my 200 F water when I want it?

No one ever listens to me. I'll just go back to eating rocks.
 
Launderess, you're probably right about the need to pre-rinse dishes going into this machine. There's no way it can clean dried-on gunk in a 10-minute cycle. It will also be fairly useless for unscrubbed pots/pans.

I guess that's why it's considered an adjunct to, and not a replacement for, a regular dishwasher.
 
Miele and others still have large sized front loaders that run on 220v power, just they are all part of the commercial range. Get yourself a Miele "Little Giant" or some such and you can boil wash large loads until the cows come home.

Seriously, the market on both sides of the pond for any sized washing machine that goes above 180F, or even 140F is gradually fading. Simply put, not many textiles sold today can withstand repeated or in some cases one, boil wash.

Henkel, did research several years ago for it's top brand, Persil; and found the average wash temp for European households has dropped down to 100F to 120F, with more and more homes doing 85F. There simply isn't that great a demand out there for boiling laundry. Today's modern detergents and oxygen bleaches sold in Europe clean, whiten, brighten and sanitise just as well at 120F to 140F as 200F.

As for this large Miele commercial dishwasher, one is going to need a good supply of storage and prep areas for all those racks and things, not to mention a place to set up loads so things can go at a rapid pace. Think one model shows some sort of storage underneath the unit, but still.

Miele showrooms often have cooking events, maybe one day there will be one of these units set up, so people can see how well it does with an average family's dinner and prep stuff in just 10 minutes.

Have a strong hunch the ten minute cycle is one of those things that comes with an (*), meaning it is really only good for lightly dirty dishes or only glassware. Then again suppose if one blasted a very highly concentrated water and detergent solution heated to near boiling, it might get the job done.
 
Dishes

Hi laundress, I`ll let you do the maths, never been my strongest subject aljerbra..LOl

yes a lot of this dishwashers a used in bars / cafes, small/medium resteraunts, usually with those high pressure hot water taps so most of the stuff is sluiced off before loading etc...also the dishes dont hang around to get dried on food before they are washed & ready for the next serving etc, interesting to see how they would fare in a normal household filling up during day or two perhaps!!!

This link is showing all the accessories and explains how they all work, good bedtime reading!!

http://www.mieleprofessional.co.uk/gb/professional/product/91_1025.htm
 
One would have thought ONE 40a or 50a power supply line would make more sense.

As an interim measure one would have been able to use the circuit that feeds their electric cooker/stove/range............but not simultaneously, of course.

Geez, may fantasy application would have been to use an ordinary 3+/- gallon (12+/- litre) hot water storage-type tank under the sink to boost temperatures going into ANY ordinary DW. Of course a count-down "ON" timer or a wall-switch would help for energy conservation.

Thanks Lady L for the user's guide, did not find it upon first look to be able to post it.
 
As said before,

I'm a professional chef and I use a high-temp, short cycle Hobart undercounter dishwasher at work at least 20 times a day. I'd love to have one of these at home to quick wash my cookware, but what Frigilux said is absolutely true. While I'm sure everything that goes into that machine comes out "fairly" sanitized, you HAVE TO pre-rinse anything with cooked-on, protein based food. All that lovely hot water can't touch the "glues" that some foods form. Nothing but old fashioned kinetic energy will remove them. Trust me, I do this all day.

I think Miele is clever here, in that they are focusing directly on that market of the Nouveau-Richies who are spending an extra 6K on professional models like mine as accessory "party dishwashers" for their new super kitchens. Problem is, they have to go to professional dealers to get them and the retail boys like Aitoro, Clarke, Elgot, and others loose that little bit of business. It's a pretty machine, but I think you'd have to be rich and a little stupid to buy it. Those Hobarts are still a better deal.

Laundress, I want my boil wash specifically for my Chef's clothing that are all cotton and disgustingly dirty. Can you direct me to a site for the Miele "little giant"? My LG does a pretty good job on them, but it never gets quite hot enough and I don't want to wait 2 and a half hours for 120v to heat the damn water.
 
Over the last five years, I've seen articles in papers such as NY Times or LA Times which chronicled the trend toward having two dishwashers. Often the second machine is located in a pantry area and is used for entertaining. Previously, the two dishwasher kitchen was mainly the province of Jews who observe the Kosher dietary laws, which forbid the mixing of utensils used for dairy products and for meat (oversimplification). Such kitchen layouts place both machines in the kitchen, since the primary motive is to wash dairy and meat utensils and plates separately, rather than to provide a spare machine for large scale entertaining.

While two machines may seem like a big extravagance, the articles pointed out that the cost of high grade cabinets is so high that replacing a 24" base cabinet with a dishwasher will mostly offset the cost of the dishwasher.

Other advantages of having two dishwashers include no need for special circuitry that the commercial Miele requires, and the possibility of washing two loads at once, or staggered loads. In homes with larger kitchens, where the kitchen was remodelled or designed de novo, and where losing 24" of base cabinet storage space is feasible, it isn't difficult to allow for an extra machine, and it costs about the same as a base cabinet.

One of the articles I read said that some buyers would buy a high end Bosch or Miele for the kitchen, and use an entry model for the pantry, since that machine would not be expected to be a daily driver. The article showed the comparative costs of a basic Bosch vs. the cost of a 24" base cabinet and concluded that it was close to a wash...as long as the kitchen was built with provisions for a drain, water supply, and 110V outlet at the site of the second dishwasher....but if one is remodelling or building de novo, it's not a costly option if done in advance.

I have relatives in the Bay Area who used to host a family Thanksgiving for 50-60 relatives and strays. They had a fairly large custom kitchen in their new home, they used the formal dining room to set up the buffet, and we ate at tables scattered through their family room and breakfast area. Somehow, we all fit. They would fix the turkey and everyone else (the guests) would bring the side dishes and desserts.

Everyone pitched in to clean up afterward, but the rate limiting step was their sole dishwasher. Dishes were rinsed and stacked on the counters, ready to go into the machine, which of course could not keep up with the demand. A second dishwasher would have been very handy. However, they rarely entertained other than at Thanksgiving, so they probably saw no need for a second machine.

I have a basic Bosch Integra from 2001. Its Quick Wash cycle can finish a load in 30 minutes, though I wouldn't recommend it for heavily soiled dishes. Glasses, coffee cups, perhaps dessert plates can be thoroughly cleaned on this cycle. If this were a second machine, used in a pantry for entertaining

The final rinse is only about 105 F, however, so the condensation off the glasses on to the steel sides of the tub is not so pronounced, as a result dishes and glasses are not bone dry at the end of the cycle.
 
Miele

Last time one checked, could be found on Miele USA's website under "professional" appliances. Miele claims to sell quite a few of these large units in the United States for domestic use,mainly to those residing in "MacMansions", who have the funds, space and above all amount of laundry requiring processing. Other purchasers would be B&B', small hotels and the like.

If you have a 220v line already installed, and it is 30amp, there is always the odd Electrolux and such on eBay.

You could always get yourself a boiling pot and "boil" washed laundry with some oxygen bleach to remove stubborn stains and enhance whitening. More labour intensive than using a washing machine with 220v heating power, but will still get you where you want to be.

L.
 
People with 5 grand to spend on a dishwasher should not care how long it takes to do a load. Let the freeking help handle it, and buy enough Baccarat crystal champagne flutes to last the evening party in the Hamptons, dammit, instead of having guests stare at the 10 minute dishwasher waiting for a refill on thier Dom.

Since I am not one of those people, I would get two Maytag Talltubs, and keep the extra 4 grand to buy more washing machines, but that's just me.
 
If you have ever seen what the "help" does with china and glassware at catered affairs, you would never use Baccarat! Plain old hotel grade stuff will do nicely. LOL* It is sort of like giving the valet keys to your new (insert your favourite high priced and sexy car here), and asking him to take it out and get the tank filled.

One could see this Uber Miele in group homes, or maybe a small B&B, but other than that at 5K it seems like overkill for a problem that can easily be solved with two dishwashers, for much less cost.

Just wait, one will be on eBay sooner or later, going for much less than 5K, I shouldn't wonder.
 

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