Miele G2150 Diamante Dishwasher

[rp2813]

David, thanks for the tips.  My machine doesn't have water softening capability but so far it hasn't proved to be an issue.  I know the water here is fairly hard, but the Miele seems to take it in stride.

 

I'm currently using my stock of phosphated Cascade along with clear Cascade rinse agent.  I bumped the dosage down to 2ml because I was catching a whiff of rinse aid after running a cycle.  Glassware is still sparkling, so I might give 1ml a shot and see how it does.  The true test will come after I run out of phosphated detergent.

 

Meanwhile, the Diamante continues to impress.  It even made knives that had been used for peanut butter sparkle.  That has never happened before with any dishwasher I've owned.

 

We were puzzled by the "Rinse" light (not the rinse aid refill light) when the machine first ran and thought something could be wrong.  Since the washer completed its cycles and all dispensers were activated as per usual, I assumed this indicator light was normal during the wash phase and your photo seems to confirm it, but there is nothing specific about it in the owner's guide.

 

[zipdang]

The "Rinse" light is a bit of a misnomer. It means rinse in the sense of a shower, as in when the machine is circulating sprays of water versus ceasing action for a drying phase.

Glad to hear all is well and that you're enjoying the machine. The Pots and Pans program has yet to disappoint me on anything I've thrown at it. The top/3rd tier tray becomes so essential that you wonder what you did without it. In one of the photos above of the lower rack it appears some of the tines are bent and out of alignment. When aligned don't be surprised by how closely the plate racks are spaced. Packs 'em in and still does a marvelous job.

European machines have an impressive capacity once you figure out their nuances. My mom had a Swedish Asko for years and could cram more into that thing than she can in her current modern (3 years old?) KitchenAid Superba.

 

[rp2813]

The Tines

Thanks for clearing things up about the rinse light.  I had a feeling it meant exactly what you said it does.  I'm still getting used to the tines and what to load where, but I did straighten out most of them since taking the picture above.  They can use a little more tweaking but I need to spend more time with the owner's manual to learn a little more about loading strategies. 

 

I'm getting used to the third rack for utensils.  It's a better system than just fitting large ones like tongs and spatulas into the upper rack as is the case with most dishwashers.  Some are too tall to place in the traditional utensil basket and will end up blocking the upper rack from being pulled outward.  Miele solved that problem with the third tier.  I also like unloading the top tier.  With either system, you're spending extra time on the front or back end.  With a basket, you can drop things pretty much anywhere, but sorting through it when putting things away takes time.  With the third rack, "nesting" when loading is the rule rather than the exception, but it makes putting away clean items a snap.

 

The upper (middle) rack seems like a free-for-all.  So far I haven't been able to load it as tightly as on the ISE.

 

When I checked the guide, it appeared the pots & pans cycle omitted a portion of the wash cycle, which seemed odd.  I'll review that again as well.  So far I haven't had the need to use that cycle, but it's only a matter of tine. 

 

 

[nmassman44]

With mine the Pots and Pans cycle and the Heavy/Intensive cycles take a rinse away after the first Prewash. Thats because it adds more water to the other portions of the cycle to maintain the water pressure boost. It will still use 6 gallons regardless and everything comes out clean. Now the other thing is that I know with mine that every cycle will vary in time. A normal cycle will take about 2 hrs and 10 mins on average. I have seen times where it has been under 2 hours, but with mine it takes into account at how hot the water is coming into the dishwasher. One thing is thatif your water is already piping hot your cycle times will reduce.
The top rack you will find that it does hold alot of silverware and utensils but be aware of that top arm...it doesnt take much to stop it. What I do with spatulas and big long handled items is that they go into the middle rack and they wash beautifully. If I wash an all pots and pans load I will remove the top tray inserts and drop the upper rack to its lowest point then I can do lids in the upper rack along withe bowls and whatnot and that top arm scours like crazy.
In time you will figure out your racking and where to put items...it does take time and I know with mine its amazing how much it can hold.

 

[rp2813]

Detergent Dosage

Right now, in addition to loading strategies my learning curve has come to include detergent dosage. 

 

Last night I chose the Pots & Pans cycle for the first time.  It worked beautifully on the target items and seemed to get the job done in less than 2.5 hours, but I noticed a definite clouding effect on glassware.  This isn't fancy stuff, just heavy everyday tumbler type glasses and the coffee carafe.  I've become so used to filling both cups on the ISE that I think maybe I'm using too much by doing the same thing with the Miele considering how much less water it uses per fill.  It's evident that the cups are proportionally smaller, so I presumed a full main wash cup wouldn't be an overdose.

 

I know the basic rule of thumb is to use less detergent if there's less soiling, but I'm wondering where to draw the line and if there's ever much need to fill both of the Miele's cups to capacity.  Any advice on how much to use would be appreciated.  I'm happy to conserve my remaining supply of phosphated Cascade by using less if I can get away with it.

 

This may be a trial & error process since the water supply is fairly hard, but I'm going to start using less with the next load, and may not bother with any detergent for the pre-wash.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Ralph,

It could also be the temperature. On the Aussie ones the Pots and pans cycle gets up between 160degF and 170degF

If I put any glassware in with the pots and pans cycle, its only heavy glass tumblers or the such.

Anything thin walled seems to go permanently cloudy at those temps.

We have soft water however so I don't have experience with water hardness issues.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[aamassther]

I've found detergent needs to be dosed quite carefully in my La Perla II. I keep it to 20cc for a normal load and 30 cc for a pots and pans load, plus about 5cc in the prewash cup. Fill the cup is way too much soap. They use enough less water that less is better.
That's a great machine, btw. The silver tray is my favourite feature. So easy to put things away from.
HTH, Todd

 

[zipdang]

Detergent dosage

With our very soft municipal water it only takes about 1 TBSP (or 20 mL at most) to clean a full load on the Normal program, or one detergent tablet. The only time I use detergent for the prewash is on the Pots & Pans program, and even then it only takes about 1/2-1 tsp to do the job.

The detergent dispenser cup should have little markings in it to indicate how full it is. Try starting with the lowest amount and increase from there until you have results that work for you. You should be able to get perfectly clean dishes without cloudy glassware.

 

[nmassman44]

Well for starters never load glassware into a load that you intend to use the Pots and Pans cycle...in a word the high temp and detergent will = etching and very bad etching at that. Thats the cloudiness you are seeing in your glassware. Remember this machine is a different animal and has no problem reaching target temps. It will heat water rather fast since it has the water heater inside the wash pump.
When I use the Pots and Pans cycle I use it just for that..pots and pans. If you have glassware involved then I would use the Normal cycle in your case. For mine I use the Heavy/Intensive cycle and add a Soak option to it.You could try the Sani Cycle and see how that does. I will have to look at the manual to see the max temps. Also the tech from Miele told me that the All in One pacs from Finish like the PowerBalls and Cascade Platinum are too much detergent for the machine. I have been using powder Somat and the new Proxi tabs with great results.

 

[mrb627]

Finish Tabs

I have been using the Finish tabs with excellent results. I set the machine to the tabs setting and it increases the rinsing and omits the rinse aid dispenser. Fantastic!

Malcolm

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for all of the excellent input.  I'll be ratcheting back the dosage for sure.  No more in the pre-wash cup and only to the lowest mark for the main wash.  Yay!  My phosphated powder will last longer!  Or do phosphates even matter with this machine?

 

Lesson learned with regard to appropriate contents when using the pots & pans cycle.

 

I don't currently use tabs but if I eventually do, my machine has no "tabs" setting and instead the user guide advises to set the rinse aid dispenser to zero.  Easy enough.

 

Vintage is cool to look at, but at the end of the day it has to be about results.  It's been two weeks almost to the minute since this machine was installed, and I think I can safely say I'm already spoiled.

 

[logixx]

Yes, these machines do use less water but also keep in mind that there is still grease that needs to be washed off the dishes. To me, less water only means a more concentrated grease solution. I tried less detergent in my water-efficient Bosch and I ended up with drops of grease in the sump after the final rinse.

I get the best results with Quantum tabs. I might even put a few drops of liquid dishwashing detergent on the door for the prewash - zero suds and keeps the grease from gunking up the drain hose etc. while the machine washes.

Used to put fancy Rosenthal glasses in with pots and pans on the autoHeavy cycle (up to 167F) all the time and never had problems with etching. Cheap glasses would etch over the years, though.

 

[nmassman44]

I usually tell the dishwasher what kind of detergent it will be using and I was surprised that the tech told me that...so I posed the question...the why give the customer the option in choosing between powder, gel, 2n1 tabs, 3n1 tabs when its too much of a dosage for the machine? He didnt know what to say. I still use the PowerBalls and the all in one Pacs from Cascade. They work and work well. Phosphated detergents the dishwasher loves.

 

[logixx]

Why the option?

1. Marketing. Some manufacturer came up with the idea to sell a machine with a tab option because detergent tabs outsell powders. So it only made sense, in the consumer's mind, to have a dishwasher that is optimized for tablets.

 

2. The x-in-one option, on some dishwashers, will decrease the amount of water taken in for the interim rinse, thus more rinse aid (surfactants) from the detergent can be carried over into the final rinse and won't get washed away. The final rinse it heated to a higher temp to increase drying effectiveness and the drying cycle is prolonged.

 

[aamassther]

I agree with nmassman. Mine loves phosphate powders best as well. I get perfect results on the most baked on stuff with Somat powder. Cascade complete phosphate free does fine on everyday loads. Surprisingly, the worst results with Quantum tabs. Which I liked best in the old Bosch.

 

[nmassman44]

Now I know that you said that the machine cant be "Bobloaded" here are a few pics of mine from tonight. I do realize that my lower rack is different from yours but you get the idea. I used Somat powder detergent and did not rinse at all...as you can tell. I will post pics of after the cycle is finished.

 

[nmassman44]

upper rack

 

[nmassman44]

top rack...now with this rack I group the silverware as you can see ..its a bit of work sorting but it makes for easy unloading and into the drawer easier when they are clean. My silverware has chunky handles and dont fit handles in and heads out. I load heads in...I hope that makes sense as thats the only way to explain it.

 

[nmassman44]

The cycle of choice is Normal. Now on this display it will show me estimated cycle time in this case 2 hrs and 2 mins. After the first intake of water the dishwasher will sense how hot the water is and how big the load is by how much water it takes to wet the load. It will add water to keep the pump from cavitating. I went into the cycle paramaters and used the more water setting which adds another 16 oz of water per fill. So that said after the first prewash the sensor system will either add time or reduce it. I have seen some Normal cycles take 2 hrs and 30 mins long to less than 1 hour and 35 mins at the least. [this post was last edited: 8/22/2013-17:52]

 

[nmassman44]

My gorgeous beauty. This dishwasher has been relatively easy to keep the outside clean. The panel is flat glass and no buttons to get in the way of cleaning the control. The stainless steel though is a bitch. One has to go with the grain and the upper control panel area show fingerprints very easily. But to me that is a non issue. It looks like it belongs in this spot and matches the countertop well. [this post was last edited: 8/22/2013-17:55]

 

[rp2813]

Thanks Mike!  Your machine does look beautiful, and like it belongs there.

 

I noticed the configuration of the bottom rack is different on yours, turned 90 degrees from how mine loads.  I'll be getting the hang of maximizing contents as I go along.  So far I haven't followed the instructions about placement of spoons with handles toward the center.  Everything is loaded with handles outward.  I don't see what difference it could make unless I had a lot of silverware to wash and reversing the spoons helped with maximizing space.

 

I'm contemplating a fairly light load for tonight or tomorrow night.  On Saturday I'm planning to use a wok that's been hanging above the stove for a very long time and has a sticky coating of grease all over it.  I'll have to wash the wok by hand because it's not dishwasher safe, but the lid is equally sticky and I'm sending that through the Miele.  I don't think it calls for the pots & pans cycle but there's only one way to find out!

 

[lightedcontrols]

That machine is a really great dishwasher. I've been selling several of those machines a week with absolutely no customer complaints at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you DID get 20 years or more of trouble free service out of it. Right now I would say it's the best on the market.

 

[rp2813]

Mark, thanks for that vote of confidence.  I hope you're right!

 

I did the wok lid load on the normal cycle and the lid came out still sticky on top.  I'm a little afraid to use the pots & pans cycle until I figure out the current draw.  The one time I used it thus far, I noticed a sort of musty smell in the under-sink cabinet and it seemed warm in there as well.  I traced the heat and odor (again, a musty/dusty smell, not an electrical smell) to the small dedicated breaker box that controls the outlet for the dishwasher.  The box contains an old school glass-encased 20-amp fuse, which was fairly hot to the touch. 

 

If anyone can advise on where I might find technical data, I'd appreciate it.  Clearly the pots & pans cycle makes regular, if not uninterrupted use of the heating element and seems to be stressing out the electrical supply.

 

[zipdang]

Under "Specifications" in the installation guide for your model it says: "The dishwasher comes equipped with a 4 ft (1.2 m) power cord with a molded plug for connection to 120 V, 60 Hz, 15 A grounded receptacle."

Does that help with regard to power draw? With regards to utilities usage it also says:

Electric: 0.01 - 1.23 kWh
Water: 1.3 - 6.3 gal (5 - 24 l)

If you don't already have the manual you can get a PDF of it from Miele.

http://www.mieleusa.com/manuals/search_manuals.asp?nav=&snav=&tnav=&oT=225&menu_id=28

 

[jerrod6]

nmassman44

We have the same model Dishwasher - G2830 and I found your remarks about the normal cycle interesting since mine works completely different in this cycle. I think it must be software versions. On my Dw the Normal cycle is a dumb cycle so the cycle I usually use is the sensor cycle. By that I mean that Normal will make absolutely no adjustments to the cycle at all unless there are differences in incoming water temperature and then it will do a hold until the water reaches temp. I tested this by washing 1 clean dinner plate. It washed this clean plate for 65 minutes so mine is not using the soil sensor in this cycle at all. When it got to the rinse I canceled the cycle. With the sensor cycle it will adjust the one pre rinse from 13 minutes down to 8 for small loads, the main wash time will vary between 18 minutes for light soil to up to 76 for heavy and it may do 3 rinses for heavy soil. Today my total cycle time was 1 hour 41 minutes. Also Normal on my machine will take more water than any other cycle except rinse/hold. I can tell this because of the length of the water intake time and I also checked the water level in the machine. Normal brings the water almost up to the edge of the door and after the fill there is no other attempt to adjust the amount of water. Other cycles have the water only covering the filter screen and the water is no where near the door, and it will add a bit of water or not for the first 3 minutes of each fill if needed.

The other thing with mine is that the cycle named(I think it is economy) uses a lower temperature than the rest but will do 3 rinses if the dishes are dirty..but the manual never mentions this at all.

I got my machine in June of 2006 so I think your Dw has a newer version of the software than mine. I Wish my normal worked like yours, so my usual cycles are Sensor or water save.

I have a water hardness between 8 and 14 Grains per gallon, but I use different detergents each week. This week I used Finish powder - good results - next week I am using Miele tabs(the older ones with phosphates), and the next week I will use Finish Quantum, and next I will use Cascade Paks. All of these do a good job so I rotate each week.

I have the detergent adjustment but just leave it at Normal since I always want it to dispense rinse aid. I didn't know there might be changes in the amount of rinse water taken in so perhaps I will try the tab setting to see what happens.

Liked your pictures of loads - yes Miele Dw can be bob loaded!

I don't think you can go wrong with any Miele DW. Some of their new washers sold in N/A maybe be another story though.

 

[jerrod6]

rp2813

Great DW and I expect you will get many great years out of it. I've had mine for 7, cleans anything I throw at it and doesn't seem to matter what detergent I use.
Like others have mentioned I wouldn't put glasses in when you do a pots and pan load. My previous Miele Dw had the temperatures listed on the control panel and it stated that pots and pans was done at 170F, so I reckon that yours is using this same temp.

When I do pots and pans or other loads with high temps I first do a load of only glasses. I use the short wash and it works great for glasses and lasts about 25 minutes.

Have fun with your new machine!

 

[jerrod6]

rp2813

One more thing....try the china crystal cycle on lightly soiled or small loads. It uses the soil sensor takes less time than normal and It works very well even if you are not washing china!

 

[nmassman44]

One thing with my dishwasher, I went into the "settings" where one can change the type of detergent etc, there is a setting for the sensor to turn it on or off. I have it turned on so its on every cycle, not just sensor cycle. I went into the "service mode" and went into Water Plus and have the More setting on. Jerrod you might want to see if you have that option for the sensor, it adjust every cycle and ensures proper washing. Mine also adjust at every water intake for the water softener. Our water runs about 10d to 11d in the summer and up to 13d in the winter. But not more than that.

 

[nmassman44]

One more thing before I forget is to make sure you go online to miele.com and register your machine. It saves time if you ever need service and they stand behind what they make. I am quite impressed by them and the level of service I got. The service charge was $180 and since my issue was fixed, the dishwasher has been flawless.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the advice.  I'll take another look at the sequences for "short" and "light" cycles. 

 

I didn't think of registering my machine since I'm not the original owner and it's out of warranty.  I wonder whether they can tell me where it was before, at least the city or town -- if the previous owner registered it.

 

I don't think I have the same capability on my machine for sensor settings and more water.  If I do, it would be accomplished by pushing a series of buttons and counting flashing lights, but the only thing I saw in the owner's guide that could be changed that way was the rinse aid dosage.

 

I'll get the info off of my machine's tag and see about registering it on line.