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moon1234

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We have a Miele W4840 and T9800 27" washer/dryer pair that have both died after about 10 years of heavy service. The washer had 15,800 hours on it and I am pretty sure a strut is gone as the drum is bouncing all over the place and I am pretty sure it is hitting the sides when it tries to spin out.

The dryer was starting to overheat and we had a small poly shirt catch fire when it landed on the aluminum exhaust tube. The sensor dry stopped working last year.

SOOOO, it is time for new units. We run a business and I have been able to get quotes on Miele Professional units PW6080 and PT7186. Cost is list minus 20%, plus shipping (~475 for the pair) and tax. Out the door the two units come to roughly $8700.

We are also looking at the SMALLER residential W1 washer for 2k. It is less than half the price of the PW6080 and the drum is only marginally smaller. We will NOT be buying the heat pump dryer.

Family size:
13 people soon to be 14. We will have 12 kids (one is done with school, but still living at home). We do (did) 5-6 loads a day for the last 10 or so years in the W4840.

I am really wrestling with buying the W1 or two W1's vs the one professional model. I can NOT afford downtime, but I really don't want to spend the money on the professional model until we get a new house built next year.

The rep at the local appliance place said with that many loads and domestic washer other than Miele will be dead in 1-2 years. He said my choice was Electrolux large capacity, but a five year extended warranty and plan on replacing the machine under warranty within 1.5-2 years. He said once they replace the unit then we are on our own. He guaranteed it would be dead with that amount of use.

The Miele residential he said is supposed to last 13-15k hours, but depends on how full you stuff it. He said commercial anything would be better, but couldn't recommend anything domestic that had an onboard heater.

So would you buy the Electrolux and burn it out, buy the W1 and just run it all day long or risk a coronary and buy the pro model?

I am leaning towards the W1 until we get the house built and then put the W1 in the girls jack/jill bathroom for an extra.

We have a bosch/siemens compact pair now that did nothing but cloth diaper duty. I have replaced the motor twice. The brushes wear out, but replacing them doesn't last long as the commutator is not smooth and the replacement brushes don't last long. We only got about 3000 hours on the motor. It now randomly wont drain. Water will flow, but after 5-6 seconds it complains drain fault. Service manual says drain pump sensor or computer. So cheap or expensive. The condenser dryer still works, but it is slow.

So friends. Which way would you go and why? I do NOT want a speed queen as they have no good way to sanitize clothes without bleach and we have ruined too many clothes in our house with bleach the way it is.
 
Your appliance dealer is correct.

Usage patterns are way too high for normal washing machines and dryers (at least most modern incarnations anyway), and even heavily tax Miele domestic units as well.

That being said you seem to have answered your own questions. Vetoing Speed Queen out of the box leaves you basically with only Miele for washers that can remotely take the sort of abuse (meant in a nice way) your household's usage will cause.

There is at least one thread here already about the W1 washing machines, with owners telling of their experiences.

Bottom line even going with a Miele high usage will likely cause machines to wear out sooner. This may mean simple repairs like shocks, springs, valves, pump, etc..., need replacing. But "simple" with Miele does not equal low cost. Their call out charges are dear and so are cost of parts.

For all their cost the warranty on Miele laundry appliances isn't that great either. So there's that to consider as well.

Finally as have said previously much of this going on about "sanitation" of laundry requiring heaters is a bit of stretch.

There has not been one single case of illness caused directly by a home washing machine that one is aware. In any event in order to obtain any really true "sanitation" (such as it is) you'd need to have water temps at or >140F or even 160F, raised quickly and held for at least ten minutes.

Were I in your shoes I'd look first for a washing machine designed to last the duration. That is something built to or near commercial standards designed to process several duty cycles of laundry per day for years.
 
The W1 is designed for about 10k hours, like your W4xxx was.

The OctoPlus range is designed for 30k hours. So if you have the possibility to hook them up electricity wise, go ahead and get them.

Further, while both have the same estimated capacity, in realistic terms, you can get about 3 pounds more clothing in the bigger machine and wash all that in a shorter amount of time.
 
Based on your family size and the associated very heavy usage, realistically the only way you should go is 'professional'.

I have a distinct feeling any modern domestic machine's guarantee/warranty will be rendered null and void in quick fashion under those conditions. And domestic customer care departments are liable to baulk at such usages.

Regarding the cost of any of the machines: could you claim a lower 'tax bracket' or tax refund, for business usage and the like?

The alternative is that you buy the cheaper W1, use it, wear it out, buy a new W1, wear it out, keep one for spare parts, etc. Having two functioning domestic machines is not a bad idea, but bear in mind they could both fail within a short period of each other.

Does your retailer offer a 'buy back' trade-in discount on newer models, a few years hence?

And does your retailer offer any annual 'service package' on the professional machines?
 
The washers would primarily be used for our family farm, which they all participate in except the little ones. We run a rather larger produce farm and generate a lot of dirty laundry. I think trying to deduct a portion of them on taxes would be a red flag for the IRS and might trigger a tax audit. I tend to only deduct things that we exclusively in the farm and don't really have a use anywhere else (Tractors, implements, buildings, fencing, etc.).

Miele professional is ONLY delivered directly by Miele. The "dealers" just get a small finders fee if they bring in a customer. I was told by Miele directly that all professional appliances are shipped directly to the customer by Miele and no reseller gets inventory. So I figured there was no point in working with a reseller. It's better anyway as then I don't need to hunt for a receipt if I have any problems.

The downside is that Miele offers only a one year warranty on the professional model. They don't sell extended service contracts on the professional machines. I was a little shocked by this as almost all companies offer extended warranties or a maintenance/service plan. The residential machines could be warrantied to five years.

With the W4840 we had a few service calls under warranty (we had a five year). The Miele technician said those machines had a design life of 15,000 hours. Meaning as long as it had under 15,000 hours they would repair it if it was still under some type of warranty plan. Over 15,000 hours and Miele considers it end of life and will no longer repair it.

It took us 10 years to get to 15,000+ hours, but our family has grown and our use has gone up. I am thinking for now I will just buy the W1 washer and possible the professional dryer, which is vented. The pro dyer is quite a bit cheaper than the washer.

I really hate appliance shopping. Especially since we have had Miele. We now compare them against the others and always come away feeling like other brands have really taken a quality nosedive.
 
I asked about this and the rep told me that Miele does not quote service contracts on their professional line. Maybe this rep is misinformed. I am used to just buying them online after I buy the equipment, but this rep stated they don't sell them? Maybe I am just not big enough or the cost is so expensive he didn't want to quote it?
 
Down Time

The professional units are kinda rare in the states. Could result in quite a bit of down time trying to find qualified technical staff to handle a repair. For my money, I would buy two sets of the W1 machines. You'll likely never have a repair on both at the same time.

Malcolm
 
I have a new Miele W1 and love it - came from a 1215 I loved as well.

If your situation Id put in 2 pair of electroluxes and split the work between them.

Id get 5 year warranties and just burn em down to nothing

UD
 
Unless things have changed Miele extends one year warranty on professional appliances for another year automatically. However the appliances must be installed by Miele technician. Thereafter no other warranty is offered.

https://content.abt.com/documents/20791/Miele_Warranty.pdf

Linked page above for Miele professional service contracts is from just that; their professional division/page. It may very well be that Miele makes (and seems so from above) a distinction between professional and domestic end users.
 
Good question Launderess. Curious as to the OP's reply.

My answer would be that investing any more money into a platform with 15K cycles on it is likely to achieve a negative ROI.

Its at the end of life for what would be a pw6065's life and 50% over what its home cycle count is rated for.

I replaced the pair of shocks - plus brushes, and water solenoid - then ditched the machine 1000 cycles later.
I would have been better off investing in a new machine vs repair.

UD
 
I'm with Launderess. replacing the struts is an easy job. If you can run a farm, you could probably replace the struts yourself. (Assuming most farmers are pretty handy, DIY types...)

Mieles are not disposable appliances, they are designed to be repaired over and over as required. To equate it to a car, the logic of replacing a Miele washer because it needs new struts is like replacing a car because it needs new brake pads. Jut replace the struts and enjoy giving your faithful Miele a new lease on life.

The dryer is probably repairable too. But I'm not knowledgeable about them. I'd buy a couple of clothes lines...

I picked up a Miele washer, W840 I think it was, which had been thrown away. It only needed motor brushes. That was over 10 years ago and I gave it to a friend who needed a washer. It is still going strong.
 
Where is the logic of not believing Miele themselves in terms of cycle lifespan?

If it's at 7500 cycles and you elect to throw it away because of shocks - that disposable

The OP' unit has 50% more cycles on it than it is rated for now- and teh 4840 was considered one of mieles worst product.

"Years" on appliances don't mean much - cycles do.

UD
 
My wife and I spoke and she said it is done with it’s life and she doesn’t want to put any more money in it. The drain pump periodically will give a drain fault during a cycle. The machine will hum as if the drain pump is on, but the impeller is not spinning. If you notice this and lift the machine an inch and let it fall the pump will kick in. So I am assuming with the impeller is spinning on the shaft or the drain pump has brushes that are worn out. So we would need a drain pump too.

Miele wants almost $300 for new shocks and springs. I have found used sets on eBay for $50 to $100, but no idea how many hours are on them.

My wife just said that this machine has lived its life. I would equate it to a Toyota with 350k miles on it. It might stil be going down the road, but it will need lots of small repair parts in the future. If the car is worth 2k and you need to dump 3-4K in it over a few years to keep it running does that make financial sense?

If the struts and springs from Miele were $100 I would just install them and push a purchase out one more year. Since they are $300 and a drain pump is over $100 we almost 1/4 of the way to a new machine. It’s sad since the rest of the machine seems to be ok for now, but I understand the logic.

The dryer she put her foot down. If there was a fire she doesn’t trust it any more. I have a feeling one of the coils in the heater is shorted. I replaced the thermister about a year ago because it was not reading properly with a multimeter. It was getting too warm then too. I figured it was due to the bad thermister. A new heater bank is not cheap and if it’s a shorted coil that is most likely what will need replacing.

We are just wrestling with what to buy. I think we will wind up with a w1 for now. Se really need to build a bigger house. When that happens I would put the pro units in a dedicated laundry room. At least that is what I am thinking. I am pretty sure my wife is concerned about the w1 capacity. If I compare what the 4840 and w1 are rated for they both say 8kg laundry max. Even though the w4840 could be stuffed with a lot more. Maybe that is why the shocks absorbers are shot. In any event the quick intense wash looks similar to the custom cycle on the w4840. It is about the same amount of time cycle wise. It is curious why they locked out some wash water temperatures in this mode. We normally did 50-60-70c cycles depending on what was being washed with 50c being the most used. Quick intense wash (power wash in Europe I think) is limited to 40c or 75c. This seems like a really odd choice. 104F isn’t warm enough to activate most oxygen bleach and 75c is usually too warm for colors and many synthetics.

The same limits don’t exit on the professional line. Cottons goes from 30c to 90c. Why is it so hard to just give the same choices in a residential washer. I also noticed there is no water plus option on the us washers and there is on the hi version. I am hoping this is a service menu adjustable option.
 
Please read this carefully and make sure you understand it

QuickIntense is either 104F/warm+ (perfect for colors) or 140F/hot+ (towels, bedding).
Keep in mind the machine only runs 1 or 2 rinses on that cycle.

The W1 can theoreticly hold 8kg as a verry max. That is tight though.
For an 8kg load to be washed quickly yet thouroghly, you'd want a drum size of 80l (about 2.8cuft). The W1 has 65l (2.3cuft), the Miele W4xxx had about 114l (4cuft).
Or, more comparativly: A full load on the QuickIntense cycle (more about that later on) in the W1 is equivalent to LOOSELY (each garment shaken out and loaded seperatly) filling the W4xxx HALF WAY.

You weren't really supposed to load the W4xxx series more than loosely to 3/4 or maximum a hand wide space above the laundry as their suspension system just wasn't designed to handle the 12-16kg dry laundry you could theoreticly pack into one of these.
The W1 is designed to handle 8kg plus overloading headroom, not that overloading is a thing one can easily do.

In the EU standard tests, machines like the W1 get loaded with 8kg of assorted laundry and they often get packed.
Getting 8kg of everyday mixed loads into them is often close to impossible. Everday mixed loads filled to the brim (not loosely filled but also not packed) are more like 6.5kg.
With loads like towels or other "fluffy" stuff, that get's even tighter.
That is the normal cycle though. Special cycles can slash load sizes down to 2kg.

The QuickIntense wash has a lower load limit too (5kg).
That would be the machine loaded to the point where you loosely fill the tub to the top. Loosely means here each item unfolded and loaded seperatly. Or alternativley just throw in the laundry until you have about 4 fingers between top of load and drum.
This cycle is mainly limited in load size to allow perfect cleaning and quick rinsing. This cycle reaches cleaning class "A" in Europe, which is far more than everyday loads with just minor stains and general soil need.
So you could pack the load full and tight if soil is mediocre, BUT the QuickIntense rinsing algorhythm is already quite mediocre for 5kg of laundry (it either does a spin and one rinse or 2 verry short rinses).
Don't know how long the normal cycle in the US takes, but depending on loading, it might be more time efficent.
Switching to "shorter" cycles without reducing loading will always impact performance. Most noticeably rinsing as cottons are - in comparison to most synthetics - hard to rinse, so just packing the machine and selecting a shorter cycle like a delicate cycle could drop results tremandously.

Overall I would highly DECOURAGE buying a compact machine.

If I remeber correctly you will soon be washing laundry for 14 people and given (I assume) you are awainting a newborn, you'll be washing tons of laundry for quite a few years to come.
Also assuming a few of your kids will hit puberty at some point during the next 10 years, the laundry amount will probably increase further.
We were 7 people, and even with 2 washers both at about 2cuft, were were running 10 loads or more per week in each plus some more.

If you only been loading the Miele W4xxx loosely 3/4ths of the way up every time, you might get away with it if your wife gets over the mental barrier of now literally packing the washer to the point you need some force to even close the door.

If you often have been doing loads bigger but also loads smaller than 3/4ths due to sorting of laundry, the W1 will increase the time it takes to do your laundry more than you think.
The smaller loads might be fine, but the loads 3/4ths full or larger will need 2 cycles to run.

If a lot or the majority of your loads exceeded 3/4ths loosely filling the W4xxx, this washer will NOT work for you.

Simply ask your wife how many loads she runs in a week and how full she loads them. If they are full a lot, for good measure, double the number of loads per week for the W1.

Calculate somewhere between 90min at least and over 2h per load.

If that seems undoable or to much, you will be way better of by getting a normal FL (something like the Electrlux 627) with an extended 5 year warranty.
Just read the terms of the warranty before you buy and check their exclusion policy.
Some just mention the machine has to be used by 1 household only (and not how 1 household is defined), some only pay back a partial amount of the cost of the machine in case of an economicaly unreasonable repair estimate (for example 80% in year 3, 60% year 4 and 40% year 5).
 
You can find *New* struts on eBay for nearly all Miele

Washing machines. You likely can find a pump as well.

Just insert part number(s) and open the search to "worldwide".

Myself and others have purchased parts from Europe for our Miele machines and either self installed or had that company do the repair.

Miele USA will install their parts customers have purchased long as they are *NEW* and in sealed boxes/bags. Warranty is same as if one purchased directly from Miele.

Miele techs will NOT install used parts, and cannot say that I blame them, but owners can do the job themselves.

IIRC changing struts on these newer Miele washers is vastly easier job than my older unit. On mines everything is done via front opening which means a tight fit. Believe on your unit sides and or back open to make repairs that much easier.

While the 4XXX washers were apparently not a shining example of Miele appliances on average, to be fair your usage is well and beyond what domestic washers are meant to cope.
 

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