Miele Washer & Dryer

[brisnat81]

Hi Guys,

A month ago, we were driving through a Town north of brisbane and as we went past, something in a Salvage shop caught my eye. Michael kindly agreed to go back, and in the Window was a Miele Washer and Dryer from 1978-1981 vintage.

After exercising my negotiating skills with him, I paid a deposit, and tomorrow I get to pick them up

They're both 4.5kg machines, the washer has a 43L (1.5 cubic Foot) drum and the dryer has a 110L (4.2 Cubic Foot)drum. The washer spins at 1100RPM which for the day is blazingly fast.

The one I'm getting isnt, but this was the first range where fully electronic controls were available. MieleRod in Sydney has the Electronic washer from this series.

For a 95deg C cottons wash, with prewash, its supposed to take 120minutes and uses a whopping 157L of water. The washer and dryer are both rated to 3.2KW or 13amps, which requires a 15amp 240V Powerpoint.
That cycle time is comparable to my new machine on a 95deg wash.

It has 7 Cycles:
Cottons Heavy Soil
Cottons Light Soil
Synthetics Heavy Soil
Synthetics Light Soil
Delicates
Woolens (Woolmark Approved)
Extra Prewash.

You can freely select the temp from cold to 95 degrees. The Electronic model uses an NTC to measure the temp, much like a modern machine. This one uses multiple thermostats.

The machine also has what it calls a graduated spin. It happens on all machines now, but obviously was rarity back then. The machine will stop spinning and tumble to stop the clothes getting plasted to the drum. Then it will spin again, and repeat the process.

It does 5 rinses on a cottons cycle.

The dryer is a condensor sensor dryer, it uses 80L of water per load. It has auto reverse to help tangling, Electronic Sensor drying with:
Extra Dry
Ready to Put Away
Non Iron
Hand Iron
Machine Iron

It has an adjustable End of cycle buzzer, 2 heat settings, and timed dry. A full load is supposed to take 80 minutes.

This is a Stacked matched pair, and I'm pretty sure that these would've been machine from the first series on offer when Miele started in Australia in 1980.

I'll hopefully get them hooked up tomorrow and take some more pictures.

PS The stickers on the machine are operating instructions, as they've been in holiday apartments for 25 years.

 

[shanonabc]

whoa, lucky!

 

[lavamat_jon]

Woohoo!

That is one beautiful set of machines! Bet you can't wait to get them up and running! How much laundyr have you saved up for the maiden washday with the old Miele? .

Keep us updated with pics! I love older Miele's. Try and get some videos too ;-)

All the best,

Jon

 

[brisnat81]

I have a weeks worth of washing to do, so probably about 5 loads.

I'm thinking that if it has the different tumbling patterns of the newer machines, it could make for a quite an entertaining video. Especially when the water level is 1/2 way up the door.

Lots of bright coloured towels.

Work has a new video camera, I may just have to take it home to try it out

 

[lavamat_jon]

Woop :-D. Can't wait!

Is this one of the 900 or 1100rpm machines?

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

My mistake...

Saw that you typed it was an 1100 spin machine. Old age is setting in...

 

[brisnat81]

According to the brochure, they're all 1100RPM machines.

The speed seems to be set with the cycle.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The only thing about the older Mieles and the reason for the 5 high water level rinses is that they did not do much extracting until just before the final rinse. My W965 (not sure of number) was from the 90s and that's the way it worked on the normal wash. Miele was scared to death of suds lock during the spin, I guess. Now, the newer Mieles give good fast spins between the water changes. They must do a good job of rinsing. My admittedly less than full capacity loads do not cause my skin to itch or exhibit any signs of detergent allergy.

 

[foraloysius]

Tom,

The older Mieles have five rinses and they spin after the third, the fourth and (ofcourse) after the last rinse. The speed on the short spins after the third and fourth rinse is 800rpm. This was how a lot of the European frontloaders of that time worked albeit some had a lower speed. I guess fear of a sudslock could be the reason. I think the older Mieles do quite a good job at rinsing. Ofcourse a spin direct after the main wash and after all the rinses are more effective.

Nathan,

I love that washer. What model number is it? Is it a W423 or W431? Or even another number? Inquiring minds want to know. If this machines spins with 1100rpm then it must be one of the first Mieles to go over 1000rpm.

The dryer is interesting, but I'd rather not use a water cooled condenser dryer. That's a water guzzler! This was the last generation of those machines, the next line had air cooled condenser machines. Miele was actually one of the last to make the change from water cooled to air cooled. I guess they wanted to improve the performance of the air cooled dryers of that era. Even now Miele condenser dryers are better than other brands, in a recent consumer test Miele was the only condenser dryer that didn't leak moist air into the room where it was.

Question: There are two positions for whites/linens and also for perm. press. How are they called? Intensive? and? Hope to hear more about these machines!

Louis

 

[brisnat81]

W423

Hi Louis,

The Washer is a W423, The dryer is a T337K.

The 4 cottons/synthetic cycles are labeled as follows
Cottons Heavy Soil
Cottons Light Soil
Synthetics Heavy Soil
Synthetics Light Soil

I guess they figured that the world Intensive would scare away any woodbe Australian housewives trying to accept this new non TL technology

There are symbols that correspond to each cycle that you can match up with on the temperature dial.

With the amount of water it uses and the final spin speed, its rinsing performance would have to be at least acceptable.

That figure of 157, over 7 fills works out to 22 odd Litres per fill. Its amazing that the new one can manage to keep the consumption down to 47L.

The literature talks about the Ecconomy button being able to save 20% water, 15% soap, and 25% the time of the cycle. I'll be curious to see, if with modern detergent, the ecconomy cycle is all thats needed.

I'm curious to see if the different cycles have the different wash rythyms that the newer machines do, or whether they just tumble and soak for different amounts of time. It must be hard to use different wash rythyms without a computer.

I'm also curious to see if the Woolens cycle without the honeycomb drum does a high speed spin, like the new HC drum machines or wether it is a slow spin or even a rinse and hold.

I'm in a little bit of trouble about the dryer, as that was the reason that Michael agree'd that we could get both. I've been on a Water conserveration kick with BNE in the middle of the worst water shortages since reticulated water started.

It wont be a daily driver dryer, it'll be the when I feel like it dryer, and otherwise I'll use the non condensor dryer. Its all in the garge, so the hot air and humidity doesnt really matter.

We dont use the dryer very often, so it shouldnt be a problem.

As long as the rain lets up, we should pick them up this morning

Tom, I agree about the spins, I love how with 5 buckets of water, and high spins, I can get a full load of washing thats properly rinses. Its amazing what a high speed spin between rinses can do. I've found I tend to use a higher water level on the Minimum Iron cycle on the new machine, as without the interval spins, there tends to be some soap residue left.

Nathan

 

[spee_man]

Rinsing in new machines

Talking about water consumtion: It's not as good as it sounds. 47 Liters aren't enugh. Our Consumer report rated a Miele 1.8, that's nearly a B! If I pay 1800 Bugs, I'd like to have the best rinsing performance. The spin cycles between the wash and rinse cycles are just to save water. Miele always didn't spin between the main wash and the first rinse. They had the opinion that the dirt could be pressed back into the fibres!This was in the early days of miele automatics. They had the " Zwei Laugen Verfahren" two suds cycle. 1.prewash, 2. main wash., 4 or five rinses and at least the final spin!

 

[tomturbomatic]

Nathan, I know this is going to sound like heresy, but I prefer washing my perma-press shirts and slacks in my single belt Kenmore Dual Tumble washer (the last model based on the old Westinghouse FL). Of course, I did adjust the water level switch so that it fills to levels used in the old 3 belt Westinghouse washers, so I wash almost all loads on the low setting and then turn it to large for the DEEP rinses. Because of the DEEP rinses and the spins, it really gets rid of detergent by the time it buzzes to add the softener. I do not particularly like the no spins method of rinsing in the perma-press cycles of the Mieles, but I am not complaining, nor should I, with 8 washers to choose from when I get to the basement with laundry.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Minimum Iron Interim Spins

Strange Nathan that you mention your Minimum Iron cycle doesn't do interim spins. After the wash, and between every rinse, my Miele will do a short burst at about 600rpm, then a longer burst at 900rpm, the first lasting about a second and the latter lasting 5 seconds or so. Obviously not the best for heavier fabrics which should be washed on the standard cottons cycle, but for synthetic fibres it's all the spinning you need between the rinses, and I've found it to be perfectly fine. Does your Miele just drain rather than drain and spin between the minimum iron rinses? BTW mine also defaults to a high rinse level and also cools down the wash water on the minimum iron cycle, perhaps another difference between the AU and EU models .

I know for definite the older Miele's, such as the ones Tom own, don't spin after the rinses on the Minimum Iron/Permanent press cycles, this is only a feature that was brought in with the W900 series of the late 90's from what I have read.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Miele Interim Spins

For interest's sake thought I'd post the description of all the cycles on my European Miele - from my understanding they have tweaked these somewhat with the new 6 kilo models (the 5 kilo Miele's we all know and love are slowly but surely being phased out).

Cottons Universal
Main wash
Water level: low
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2 or 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - 1000rpm spin
Final spin: yes (1600rpm)

Minimum Iron
Main wash
Water level: low
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: high
No of rinses: 2 or 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - slow/short and fast/long bursts
Final spin: yes (900rpm)

Delicates
Main wash
Water level: high
Wash rhythm: Gentle action
Rinses
Water level: high
No of rinses: 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: no
Final spin: yes (600rpm)

Cottons Hygiene
Main wash
Water level: low
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2 or 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - 1000rpm spin
Final spin: yes (1600rpm)

Woollens Handwash<b>
Main wash
Water level: medium
Wash rhythm: Woollens
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - fast, long burst
Final spin: yes (1200rpm)

<b>Silks Handwash<b>
Main wash
Water level: medium
Wash rhythm: Silks
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: no
Final spin: yes (400rpm)

<b>Quick wash
Main wash
Water level: low
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - short/slow and fast/long bursts
Final spin: yes (1600rpm)

Automatic
Main wash
Water level: low
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: high
No of rinses: 2
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes - EITHER slow/short & fast/long bursts OR 900rpm spin (fabric dependent)
Final spin: yes (900rpm)

Denim
Main wash
Water level: medium
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: no
Final spin: yes (900rpm)

Outer wear
Main wash
Water level: medium
Wash rhythm: Gentle action
Rinses
Water level: high
No of rinses: 3
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes (short/slow burst after wash)
Final spin: yes (800rpm)

Shirts
Main wash
Water level: medium
Wash rhythm: normal
Rinses
Water level: medium
No of rinses: 2
Spinning
Rinse and interim spin: yes (short/slow and short/long spins)
Final spin: yes (600rpm)

You can of course programme the water plus option to deliver either an extra rinse, a high water level, or both. Whilst I tend to use the extra rinse for absorbent loads such as towels, I have found that along with proper detergent dosage (i.e. not shovelling it into the drawer) that the standard 2 rinses work perfectly fine on your average load - to the point where there are no suds at all in the first rinse! Just goes to show how powerful that 1000rpm interim spin is (it spins for about 4 mins at 1000rpm after the wash). As a poster mentioned above about dirt being driven back into the clothes on a wash spin, I can only say that in all the years I've owned washers that spin after the wash my whites have never been dingy from dirt allegedly being driven back into them.

Jon

 

[spee_man]

Dirt driven back into cloths

I only metioned that miele had that opinion in the early days.

 

[askomiele]

My washer is a miele and it spins after the mainwash! My washer washes and then cools down and dilutes the soapy water. Then it drains and spins. For towels and the sanitizing wash ( köchwasche 95°) I let her rinse 4 times. For other things I let her rinse 3 times (or 4 when I forgot to select the short option). No rinse worries and no overconsumption of water. And because of washing with rainwater, water is free, but it lets suds the detergent more.
( is my german oke or is it as bad as my english?)

 

[tomturbomatic]

Something that also makes the rinsing look adequate is the frigid cold water in the winter. Try a rinse in warm water and suds come out of the load even after the final spin.

 

[brisnat81]

I got them and I've played

I picked them up yesterday morning, and have done 5 or so loads on Cottons light soil. When I have filled it for Synthetic or Delicate, the fill comes halfway up the door.

The on Cottons the machine does a low level wash, and 5 high level rinses.

The machine drains at the end of wash
Fills for the first rinse
Drains
Fills for the second Rinse
Drains
Fills for the third rinse
Drains and spins
Drain pump stops and the machine starts filling for the fourth rinse while still spinning.
Drains and spins
Fills for the 5th rinse through the detergent dispensor first and then the fabric softener container.

It does balance the loads prior to spin, it tumbles backwards and forwards for longer periods until the spin motor kicks in without a pause and it seems to ramp up to about 900RPM. In the final spin, it does this for about 5 minutes and then ramps up to 1100RPM for another 5mins.

A graduated spin, is what I'd call a spin burst. It pulses the spins on and off and then tumbles inbetween.

Without graduated spin, the timer clicks past the incremements where it would otherwise pulse, and just goes into two spin increments at the end of the cycle, before defaulting to a creasguard tumble program.

The machine doesnt alter the tumble speeds, instead it just adjusts the tumble period. During heating in the washer, it has very short tumbles with long pauses. You can tell when the heating is finished, as it instantly starts to tumble longer harder and faster.

So far I've found 3 spin speeds, but as they're built into the timer, I'm not sure what they are, I'm just judging by sound.

The machine does the cooldown after wash in every cycle. (On my new machine, this is an option to protect pre 1974 compliant plumbing from 95degC water)

I did all our washing in the machine, and the suds levels were negligable. This morning, I put a load of Michael's mothers towels through, and by the end of wash, the suds were covering the door. There must've been lots of Coldpower residue left in the towels. I ended up putting it through a second lot of rinses to get rid of all the soap (10 rinses in total) I attempted to put the machine straight into spin from wash with this load to get rid of the suds. Tom was right, the machine sudslocked badly, tried for about 20seconds to spin, and when it didnt get any speed up, advanced through the increment and filled for the rinse.

The thing I like best about the machine is how I can control every part of the cycle, I can skip or repeat and do whatever I choose.

The machine could use a new rubber seal around the glass insert in the door, (Its hardened) but its not leaking anywhere.

The suspension could do with some greasing as well, it seems to twang slightly when reversing during tumbling.

All in all, I'm very impressed with the machine. The build quality and how it senses things without electronics is amazing. I'm hoping I never need to do a timer replacement, as there are fistfulls of wire everywhere on the back of the control panel.

The Dryer is another story

As with any device from a beachside appartment, the underneath of the dryer is full of sand. Every time we move it, more sand falls out.

I put a load of old towels in this morning, to see what happens.

The machine starts tumbling and gets hot very quickly. Once the machine reaches the temp (You open the door and condensation forms around the seals) the water inlet valve opens. This is however where things went wrong

The valve was cycling on and off, as expected. However the drain pump wasnt running, so after 5 minutes water started to run out of the condensor overflow at the back.

Next time we're up the coast I will investigate further.

The dryer needs its pump issue fixed, a new light globe, and a new set of door seals. Other than that it seems pretty good.

After the leak, I hung my steaming hot washing on the clothesline and it was dryed in no time.

I have photos on the camera and will post em later.

Hugs

Nathan

 

[brisnat81]

Washer Controls

The control panel up close