Mile 1215 worth it in the end? Hello new W1

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Who knows

Miele had so much problems with that large gas dryer (that matched 4xxx washers), they probably simply said never again.... *LOL*

Keeping with theme of this thread, not offering a gas dryer likely will lose Miele some sales here in USA. No matter how great their heat pump dryers are, many simply are not going to switch over to electric when they have a gas connection already. This even with the Miele dryer using 120v power instead of 220v.

But then again maybe Miele has accepted they will be nothing more than a niche brand in USA and are happy.
 
Ok just to hijack this thread ......

What happens when there is no gas ?

I believe Foraloysius mentioned in the Netherlands they are stopping the instal of gas boilers.

We in this little island the UK have a lot of electric driers as they are the norm so anything that saves the darn elec bill has to be a bonus.

There are 3 adults and 3 dogs in my home I do a lot of washing and due to having no space for a washing line have used my heat pump dryer all year round. The cost is negligible compared to the old vented dryer I use for the dogs bedding.

I like my heat pump it may take longer than a vented or condenser but the no heating the room makes for a more comfortable surrounding and it takes maybe a 1/4-1/2 hour longer than the wash cycle so instead of washing everything in one day I spread it over the week.

Austin
 
Yes, that is right. Gas heating is being phased out here. My nephew and his wife have bought a new house that has yet to be built. The new residential area will have no gas connections at all. Heating will be done with a heat pump and they are going to cook on induction.

I am using a heat pump dryer (Siemens) for some months now. The big surprise is that it gets pretty much as hot as the Miele condenser dryer I had before the Siemens. I thought temperatures would be much lower, but I guess it just takes a bit more time to achieve the max. temperature.
 
speed vs money - Im kind of on the edge with one set speed wise as is, most colleagues have 2 pair of units.

This is why I put 11K cycles on in 13.8 years. Thats a bunch of laundry.

Although its true I can make energy from my roof - natural gas therms are dirt cheap and although not limitless in supply, abundant enough here in the Western US that they may as well be.

Having made the decision early to bias hedonism over frugality - I have very little space left for solar electric, having covered my roof with solar water heating for the pool and jacuzzi.

If I only laundered for myself and wife I could care less what time the units took if they saved money, but it isn't just us - its, us, the "kids", the dogs the guests, and a business. It kind of goes like this

business
guests
Us
Kids
Dogs

My personal conundrum in the speed/ cost scenario is that I have a mobile grooming business to support out of my home, and its 15lb 60C load per day and drying time takes precedence over all personal items. then the kids show up at random times during the week and always on weekends and then you add in the swimming towels, lounge covers and whatever washcloths get used during pre and post swim showers.

My back room has about 25% guest duty, more than most as a Sales VP at a global company I have lots of international and stateside guests and visitors, add its denizens also seem to love the pool and and associated endless supply of high end fluffy towels I supply them.

20 years ago I switched my gas appliances over to 220 to save money but it now becomes cost prohibitive as tiers and base costs have skyrocketed and tier 3 where I seem to land every month ends up at or above.21 As such at replace time -Not Germanic level, they have managed to make electricity unaffordable for nearly everyone in Germany. Same as Hawaii.

I am re-seeking gas alternatives at swap out time to attempt to get back into my respective tier 1,or 2., and about to finish off the roof with solar electric even though the positioning is sub optimal Ill be able to recoup something.

When the 1405 goes "a big Ole" gas dryer is going in its place.

UD
 
What happens when there is no gas ?

Not an issue for USA atm, nor for long in foreseeable future.

Had tons of the stuff, and now thanks to our friend Mr. Fracking the United States has so much natural gas we don't know what to do with it all.

Largest issue is bringing infrastructure online and or finding ways to move LNG or pipe natural gas to various parts of the country.

Some of you outside this nation may have heard about Donald Trump and his "helping" the coal industry. Well coal is dying off as the remaining market for thermal coal (electric power plants)are going over to natural gas.
 
Have wondered for some time now how many manage

To knacker a Miele washer in relatively short periods of time, now I know.

Not pointing fingers or anything, but that sort of heavy usage as outlined above is enough wear and tear on any washing machine, even those built to a higher standard such as Miele. Well they used to be anyway....

Don't think have saved the link, and have forgotten exact formula how Miele and other European washing machines arrive at lifespan estimates. IIRC however things went something like average household doing one or two loads per day multiplied by weeks and into years.

This being said it does seem that Miele's boilerplate "20 year lifespan....", might be a load of flannel these days.

Perhaps their old purely mechanical and or simpler electronic/mechanical washers lasted decades, but the newer pure electronic machines may be another matter. Often it is something like the motherboard or other electronics that fail after a few years. However while the machine technically otherwise is in good condition, cost of new parts and call out charges are dear (especially for Miele). So people often end up rubbishing the thing and buying new.

http://thinks.jamesbradbury.co.uk/life-span-of-a-miele-washing-machine/

https://www.repairaid.co.uk/washing-machine-lifespan/

https://conversation.which.co.uk/ho...-broken-lifespan-lifetime-warranty-guarantee/

Whatever claims Miele makes regarding longevity of their washing machines (or other appliances) warranties offered do not come anywhere near. While one believes things are a bit more generous in Europe, on this side of the pond for a washer that costs nearly two or three thousand, you get a barely two year warranty. Even then it is rather limited for what one is getting.
 
Weasel words

The twenty years is not a promise. Its marketing.

Here in New Zealand on the Miele website it says "Tested for 20 years equivalent usage". Whose usage? The small print at the bottom states " This equates to approximately 5 programmes per week with an average run time of 2 hours".

Not my usage. I think we ran the machine 4 times yesterday and thank GOD it is an older machine with shorter cycles.
Surely the shorter the cycle the shorter the period of strain on the mechanical and electrical parts. Less strain on clothes too perhaps?
 
Here in the EU the energy label is based on 220 loads a year. Not sure if Miele uses that as basis of calculation, but their 10000h claim is held up by most of their machines, even of the last design generation.

Short cycles do mean the machine is on less and thus does last more cycles, but equivalent hours.
Strain on clothes in shorter cycles delivering simmilar results to a long cycle will be equivalent or greater due to the shortend duration of chemical action and thus compensation by more intensive mechanical action. That is all assuming proper cycle design.
 
10000h

Is something worth remembering IMHO.

IIRC all sorts of appliances have rated "duty hours" and this includes commercial and domestic laundry equipment.

Thus years might not be the true measure of longevity, but how much usage a washing machine has had over a time period.
 
AFAIK Mieles commercial DW are rated 10k hours as well, their commercial laundry equipment 30k h and their home DW like 5k.

Most EU washers have designs layed out from anywhere between 1800 and 8000 running hours IIRC.
DW generally shorter due to the harsher enviroment.

The shortest lived appliance in that sense are vacuums, given the EU calculates only an hour of vacuming per week I think.
Longest lived are fridges as they can have compressor designs running up to 18h a day on new highest efficency fridges with ultra low power inverter compressors.
 
"Tested for 20 years equivalent usage..."

Didn't the Dyson Contrarotator also spew such bilge? And we saw how trouble-free they were...
 
Miele stuff genuinely does last a long time.
I have a Miele vacuum from 1995 that has been getting very heavy use and it's still going strong without any issues at all. You just change the HEPA filter once a year or so and that's it.

Their washers are great - one proviso though: don't install them outside of the specs on springy floors.
They will last decades if installed on a concrete floor.
 
Most Miele stuff lasts a long time.

Some don't.

My first blue moon vac was terrible, from cracked circuit boards to hoses with poorly integrated electronics.
The new miele vac has been great

Ovens have been great - only needing one repair in 15 years.

Dishwasher a g851 SC is about 15 years old now and so far has not needed a single repair.

Washer needed a few repairs in its 10K life but delivered excellent performance until the last 250 cycles or so.

The dryer is still kicking after 11K cycles with one brush upgrade that wasn't needed but making a chattering noise.

Its dam solid but not "bulletproof" or perfect stuff - good enough for me to pay the delta - so far.

UD
 
Are hours of operation claims connected to a certain range of wash cycles ?
I mean if someone favors short cotton cycles all the time but hates the permanent press and delicate cycles wouldn`t it mean a lot more stress from high speed spins on a machine compared to the "average" user ?
 
Washer Longevity

Is pretty much determined the number of hours its components are run and the length of time you keep it, after this the care it gets and the environment is installed in.

 

Miele makes a very high quality washer, but compared to a Speed Queen FL machine which is a true commercial based machine that is designed to go 25,000 loads average it is just not as rugged or repairable.

 

A Miele is just way too complicated and has way too many plastic fasteners holding it together, it is also much harder to service and parts are not as readily available and EXPENSIVE.

 

The SQ is much larger in capacity which adds to overall life because you will do up to 50% fewer loads, try stuffing an American sized comforter in a Miele.

 

John L.
 
Some items are cycle speed independent like controls and like the water fill solenoids - all they know is on and off, and I had two cold water fills fails in 11K cycles -mostly attributable to our hard water.

A slow turning spinning cycle is a "cycle" nonetheless to those components.

Speed Queen

I could have easily bought a speed queen last round and this round- I have the hookups and space.

As for speed queens and longevity, there are some factors being left out and some assumptions being made that don't pan out equally in every scenario.

If it had the same or equal features and performance as the Miele it would be a closed case and I'd be using one - - they don't.

One big diff being they don't have internal heaters.

They can skip using a whole lot of components by avoiding this complexity.

In terms of sanitizing - for me, I need 1 full germ killing load per day - A hot water fill will not sustain 60C if it can ever even get that temp to drum onceit wont hold. This means in order to truly sanitize anything you have to resort to bleach which reduces the life of fabrics considerably and results in added expense to buy use and deal with vs hitting the 60C button and walking away.

In terms of getting grease out of shop clothes sustained temps get the job done where the speed queen simply won't clean as well as a unit with an internal heater.

Soap+ agitation+ heat= cleaning power. Remove the heat from the equation and the cleaning power goes down.

Extra capacity doesn't always mean fewer loads - unless its so big I can put two beds in at once - it's not.
Id still have to run two separate cycles for the front and back beds.

I don't have any king beds in my house but 2 queens and can comfortably fit one whole beds worth in one load.
If the speed queen were so big it could take two loads (closer to 30LB dry) it would make a difference to me - but it inst that big.

I do a 4 bin sort - and the rest of my loads aren't full to capacity by the time I need to do them so the bigger drum doesn't buy me much if anything based on how I do laundry - If I dumped everything in one load and washed it all on cold then maybe I could see cutting a cycle or so week out but based on my sorts - the drum size increase below a 2 bed threshold buys me almost nothing.

Then let's talk about the drum itself - is speed queen still using plastic ladles?
Put 20 lb of dry laundry in there then get it all good and wet then drag an open zipper over that plastic a few hundred times and see if it scratches - if it does you then that scratch forever drags across your laundry.

25K cycles is a great lifespan. I don't know if they actually make it that far but if they do that's great.
Thing is those cycles aren't the equivalent of the Mieles cycles from a flexibility and feature standpoint.

UD
 
UD, thank you for your eloquent statements regarding the effectiveness and thoroughness of FLers with heaters.  The European approach to doing laundry is so far superior and civilized than the wham-bham thank you ma'am way Americans do laundry in 25 minutes.  I hope I never have to go back to a top loader of any kind, particularly any washer without a heater.  Since I acquired a washer with a heater, my laundry is far superior in cleanliness and significant dirt/stain removal vs. the American approach. 

 

I hope Meldew in Georgia is continuing to realize and experience the superiority of front loaders tackling horrible messes that she discovered once she got an LG washer with heater/sanitize that functioned cor4rectly and is adjusting to the longer cycle times when needed for those big messes. 
 
I no sooner opened my mouth about how my latest Miele vac was trouble free- and then discovered this morning - looks like the last person dropped it and broke the extension lock.....

abuse? vs just not stout enough? tough call, either way, it was 126 dollar replacement- that was in stock up the street at the vac store (lucky me)

UD

uncledave-2018082013502907545_1.jpg
 
Twindos update good and bad......

On the twindos front, I'm really surprised I like the system so much. I was very skeptical.

I tried Miele soap before and thought it sucked both in cleaning power and smell - it was a chore even to finish the box.

I'm a die-hard Persil fan and was figuring I'd just continue to use my powders I order online and liquid soap I can pick up at Wal Mart.

After a few weeks of use I've dialed back the detergent to 18 ML per dose which would give me 83 loads out of a 19 dollar cartridge (if it lets you go away the way to empty) A far cry from the 35-50 loads I've seen quoted

I find that's enough for almost everything but the stinkiest toughest loads and I can bump up to a heavy soil which adds a few more CC's (pretty sure) to the load. Loads are coming out clean and a bit whiter - that part is GREAT!

I dialed the phase 2 bleach cartridge back to 15 ML per dose giving me an even 100 "white" loads.

What's ANNOYING AF is that twindos cartridges simply aren't available or in stock anywhere!
Everyone is back ordered from LA to New Jersey and I can't find a thing on amazon.

Secondarily the empty user fillable cartridges don't seem to exist in the US- that was part of the program that sold me on the unit.

This is one of the biggest problems a manufacturer can have is when they create a system that uses their own consumables - and then can't manage to supply them.

Theoretically, I'll get my promotional units today long before I run out - but then what?

I'm in a position where I can't get the factory consumables, and I can't use my own consumables as was advertised and shown - what a bummer!

I hope Miele gets its act together on this.

UD
 
Thanks appnut,

I try to add value where I can, but don't multitask very well and often my posts aren't great.

In my head it makes sense but on the screen, it translates poorly - yeah sure the words are English and somewhat in the right order but don't always read well.

UD
 
Integrated circuits (chips) and transistors are by its nature parts that virtually don’t wear by use. By the way they can be easily damaged under many, unpredictable circumstances. The more functions they perform the more they are delicate. Surface mounted devices (smd) made things worst. Nowadays most electric gear contains electronic boards inside to perform tasks once made by electromechanical devices. Talking about washing machines, these now have very sophisticated functions , these can save water and energy, spin at tremendous spin speeds in almost absolute quiet but all this happens thanks to electronic biards that are found in modern machines. There are electronic board made with better components and designs but even in those cases a fault can easily happen. We can not always blame the manufacturer for that. There is a legal warranty time and we can’t demand the manufacturer to replace every electronic board that fails after years of use. Miele replaced the board after six years at the only labour cost, i would like to see how many manufacturers do the same. I bought a new vmw960wps the top of W1 miele machines but I was not satisfied with the product. After almost two years of use I wrote a note to Miele and they exchanged the machine with an older model (as requested by me) and they gave me 8 years of warranty on it. All domestic appliances i have are made by Miele and I can’t really complain on anything. They say their machines are made to last twenty years (i have several washing machines that went far beyond the twenty years) and i guess they refer to motors and drum-tub assembly. Electronic boards fails are mostly unpredictable. The more these are sophisticated the more they are prone to fail.
 
So you had a W1 for 2 years - sent it back and they gave you another older machine.

Do you have write ups/description of your issues someplace over your dissatisfaction I can read?
I'd love to see your letter to Miele if you saved a copy.
Normally after you own something two years - its yours regardless.

It isn't really the years that count in regards to age but the cycles - did any of your machines make it to or past 10K cycles?

Curious and thanks!

UD
 
Hi Dave,

Our W3933 had a bearing failure at the 8 year mark, under the quality guarantee, Miele attempted to replace the bearings and when it failed again they replaced the spider, backplate and outer tub all under warranty. The Machine is 10 years old now and still ticking along with no other service.

I do think the W3XXX series was the beginning of a decrease in Miele quality. Between multiple houses we have a fleet of W2XXX machines that are now all 10-14 years old and other than a shock absorber replacement on one of them, the rest have needed no service. I've purchased a few W3XXX machines online not working and they've all had bearing failures, plus the W3XXX series was the first one that allowed a cold wash on cottons which has resulted in most of them being crazy mould factories. There is probably a correlation between those things.

My experience has been that you need to remain firm but polite and in most cases they've helped me out. I've pursued them over rusty racks in the dishwasher and always I've ended up satisfied with the outcome. The challenge is when a wear and tear item actually fails then the cost of repair is greater than the value of the machine.

Cheers

Nathan
 
reply to Uncle Dave

Hello Uncle Dave,
it is not the first time I deal with Miele and every time i was very very pleased about how they solved my problems. Talking about the WMV960WPS the story is quite long. My aunt broke her Panasonic washing machine so i decided to give my fantastic W4446WPS to her and buy a new W1 Miele. I didn't do a good choice at all. I bought for 1900 euro the WMR960WPS. It started giving problems from the beginning throwing errors about water intake, jumping up and down when spinning and experiencing bad rinses most of the time with indication of soap overload etc. After several calls to the Miele service I decided they had to remove that thing and change it. Technicians directly from Miele Italia came to see the thing acting. They also upgraded it with a new firmware and changed a small pipe to prevent other problems. It continued to give problems so after another call I decided to upgraded to the top of the line model and go for the WMV960WPS. It costed about 2400euro. They came, installed it and left me with my pile of wash. I used it for about two years complaining with the service engineer how unsatisfied I was. They came several times and adjusted the water level to my needs but the machine continued to jump during spin. It had a peculiar way to wash and it left a lot of lint from the fabrics. The quick power wash delivered very good washing results but the only rinse always left foam and I ended with t shirts smelling detergent especially when sweating! I decided to write directly to the chief of Miele Italia to express my unsatisfaction about their new line of washing machines and dryers. A few months before the first W1 washer I bought a W1 dryer to replace an older model (I gave to my hubby and it still works perfectly) and it gave problems for the day one. The only good thing I can say about it is the power consumption is really much lower than my condensation one. It stopped in the middle of the cycle to warn the filters required cleaning so if I left it unattended i ended with clothes not dry and I had to start the cycle again after cleaning the filter (to clean the filter you had to remove it, wash it under water and then let it dry and reinstall. The other problem was drying bed sheets. The drums turns only in one direction making a ball of the sheets and then it starts to bump and bump like if there is a ball in the drum. Everything inside of the ball comes out wet, All this was very annoying. The result of my letter where I asked to downgrade to the older series. They decided to replace my 2 years old washing machine with an "old" XLevel 5000 series machine of similar price I am totally satisfied with. They also updated the firmware of the dryer so I decided to keep it. After a while I decided to replace the dryer too as it still didn't give me the results I was used to and I found a match for my washing machine. It is an early model of heath pump Level 8000 series. Along with the washing machine came a warranty of 8 years on parts and labour. What can I say more? Sure I have the letter I wrote to the Miele chef, I just have to translate it in english and then I'll post it.
 
Hello Brisnat - I had a few parts fail under warranty and repair was swift, professional - and expensive.
Not being under warranty I didn't bother to bring it up with Mile. It seems to be that they took some solidity out of the machines in the last couple generations.

Hello Bewitched, Thanks for the detailed response - I was thinking maybe you already posted this and you could get me a link - vs write the whole thing out but thank you.
Interesting -on aggressive factor/lint
I noticed the ladles on eth W1 machine are more aggressive than my 1215 in height and in profile- that said in delicate and handwash modes the old machine didn't turn the clothes as well and they slipped under the clothes vs lifting and dumping them a lot more. A profile analogy would be roller vs flat tappet cam profile comparison

Also interesting news on the dryer- I'm surprised the dryer only turned in one direction (?!??!?)
I would expect an overly aggressive filtration system on a heat pump or condenser dryer - couldn't you just have faked the washing part and reinstalled dry after cleaning the 2 outer filters?

As for the shaking that's an interesting problem -mine spins out like a turbine - better than my older unit even on top of an even taller pedestal.

Did you by any chance get a vid of this machine doing the shakes?

UD
 
" dryer only turned in one direction (?!??!?)"

This is a common occurrence these days. Bosch dryers apparently do the same. I too think it is utter madness.

Even so called 'reversing' models from the likes of Electrolux Group (Zanussi, AEG), only reverse for about 12 seconds. My twenty year old Zanussi dryer does this.

Gone are the days of equal bi-directional cycles.
 

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