"mini split"A/Cs

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Pricing?

The salesman in the above video sites $2300 for a 9k unit installed. Really? Can't be that expensive or they would have gone out of business by now, right?

Malcolm
 
Mini-Split A/Cs and Window A/Cs

Hi Malcolm, I was not talking about W A/Cs, yes they are much worse than MSs, they are noisy and Ugly, only good thing they are cheap and you throw them away when they break. A/Cs of all kinds are now much quieter than when we were kids, LOL.

MSs are very expensive for basically throw away unserviceable equipment. My partner Jason got a bid to install them in his little 2 BR frame Town House of around $10,000, Instead we put two GE through the wall heat-pumps in for a cost of about $800.00 each, with the GEs you can just pull them out for cleaning repairs or possible replacement. GE has built the same size units since the early 1960s, so they are cheap and easy to replace.

There are very few buildings old or new that can not have a properly installed ducted heating cooling system installed, and once installed the duct system will last the life of the building. The actual mechanical equipment can be up dated every 20-40 years or so without major disruption to the home.
 
Noticed A Few

I have noticed a few of these split units installed in my neighborhood. Some of the homes had the bonus room built in over the garage but neglected to opt for an a/c upgrade. Our covenants have banned window a/c units as unsightly which explains the adoption of the splits here.

Guess I always assumed they were cost comparable to window units...

Malcolm
 
My neighbor has one

My next door neighbor installed one of these Mitsubishi split heat-pump systems about 5 years ago. His system has dual evaporators. I was talking over the fence to him just the other day and I asked him about it. He has nothing but praise for it, he is very pleased. From a neighbors standpoint I have never heard it run until I walked up to it once.

My neighborhood was built in the mid to late '60's and 98% of the homes have hot water baseboard heat making central AC a problem. From walking the neighborhood I see a few of these mini-splits. Others (like us) installed a conventional system with a high velocity duct system. There are still a few window or wall mount systems and apparently even some people that don't mind sweating!

If its true that the evaporator fan runs constantly I'd rate that as a serious design defect, its surely hurts efficiency and dehumidification performance. The condensing unit should always be switched on first to get the evaporator cold before the indoor circulating fan is started. It would likely be fairly simple to integrate an external wall thermostat to fix this issue if the owner is handy.

I'd like to add one of these systems as a bedroom system for night time zoning. They tend to be a bit large though with 10k BTU being about the smallest I have seen. I will admit the internal wall mount evaporator isn't as lovely as something fully hidden, but I am a form-follows-function person.
 
thanks for all the replies guys-got the Mr Slim all straigtened out and no broken parts or crimped pipes or anything found.Good to hear these are decently effective in heat pump mode.I had thought the compressor was a 3-phase induction motor driven by inverter,but it is actually a big DC "ECM"motor as is the fan.The compressor is wrapped in sound absorbing padding and the fan runs at a max of 810 RPM,explaning the very quiet operation noted upthread.A variable,electronic controlled expansion valve is also featured.Now time to get a suitable evaporator...
 
Concealing mini-splits

In Japan the indoor unit is often built into cabinetry and concealed with louvers (such as in an above cabinet soffit space). Some now are meant to be concealed with short ducts too, though not a traditional central system spread of ductwork.

I don't really consider AC, even central, to be ventilation unless they have exhaust and fresh air intakes, like say via a heat exchanger.
 
I personally don't care for them, anywhere I have ever seen them installed wasn't comfortably cool, but cold and clammy with obviously high humidity levels. I have experienced the same with our central unit (ducted), so we use a couple small window units in addition to the central unit. Helps even out the temperature as well as humidity, and I can keep my bedroom like an icebox if I so desire. If I had my choice I would use window units and completely abandon the aging central system. With window units, they are removed in the fall, out of sight, out of mind. Repairs/replacement is cheaper and easier as well, instead of several hundred dollars for a service call, a window unit can be replaced for $100-300 or so depending on size.
 
We're Installing Mitsus.

All of us here have decided the Window Units have to go. 3 years ago, the owners of the house and myself bought Friedrich window units.

First disappointment was they "are a American Company". Yeah, look at the box... Made in China. Now I know they have a High End unit called the "Kuhl". But they are asking ridiculous prices like around $600+ for a 8,000 BTU unit.. That A/C better make me a cup of tea and sing me to sleep for that price.

But none the less, over 3 years, they have gradually produced more noise and vibration. Also, they are rusting out. Both of them. One is a 12,000 and mine is a 8,000. They are removed from the windows in the fall, and stored properly (not like you see on CL where people store them on their sides, upside down etc.) in a heated store room.

They may as well sell window units these days in a pop up dispenser box like Kleenex. My 1971 Chrysler Airtemp still runs, but my window in my studio cannot accommodate the size of the unit.

A restaurant down the street just installed Mr. Slims with Heat Pumps, and they are whisper quiet and blow Ice Cold Air.

I'll post pics when the installation begins.
 
Well...

I certainly hope those work out for you!*

 

*Particularly regarding the system cycling the condenser off and leaving the indoor fan on. I'll be interested to see if my passed judgement can still stand in 2014 or not... 
 
project underway

obtained a damaged lennox A-coil with one side about the right size to modify into attic-mounted,ducted evaporator-have several Nidec 48v DC variable speed 415 CFM squirrel cage blowers,will use 2 or 3 of these for the airflow.The outdoor unit model is MUZ GE12NA-not totally sure of the control signal used to control the outdoor unit,but seems to be 12-24v positive for one mode,negative for the other.
 
I think the downside to split systems is being over stated here. I've never lived in a house with Central AC and don't notice any real difference in comfort between a house that has split systems and a house that has Central Air.

The House I was born in, had a 1970's era Carrier Split system, with a compressor the size of a large Fridge. In cooling mode the Fan continuously ran at the speed you selected and the compressor cycled on and off. Everything was always cool and comfortable, and due to its second vent (Hole through the wall behind it) it cooled a 4 bedroom house for over 30 years.

Every house since then has had more modern split system, and generally when the compressor stops, the blower fan slows to low, just to keep air moving past the thermostat. Its never humid or clammy inside, as long as the units are sized appropriately for the space they're cooling. If the units are undersized, then yes it stays very humid.

We live in a 3 story townhouse and prior to Christmas, we fully air-conditioned the Top level (Finally) with a 3 head single compressor Fujitsu unit. The upside for us, is we can now just cool two bedrooms (That are in use) are we can cool the entire floor. We couldn't find an installer that would do Central Air for the Top level as the Air return would've been at the top of 2 flights of stairs, and the system would've had to have been oversized for the rooms that needed cooling due to the hot air that would rise up the stair well. We had some pilot holes drilled in the floor to see if it would be possible to retrofit ducting to the main level, and short of Ending up with an obtrusive bulkhead or losing a chunk of Storage space, there was no way to get from the roof to the lower levels.

If you size them right, the Split systems work without issue.

Nathan
 
+1 Brisnat!

The biggest key with any A/C is the correct sizing. Bodge that up and you'll have all sorts of problems. 

 

From what I understood, I thought it was always the undersized system that would keep the humidity at a minimum, due to the long running cycles. The oversized machines, being in a state of cycling frequently, would be less likely to keep the humidity down (especially in mild weather). 

 

Maybe I'm overly sensitive, or just unlucky in the experiences I've had. I am hot-natured, so that probably doesn't help much at all. 

 

All the houses comparable to mine that use splits instead of the original central air have always been "muggy," but that might be conservative set points more than anything else. 

We keep ours at about 27ºC (80ºF) in the Summer, Auto Fan (Cycles with system). If we leave the fan on at night - humidity will reach about 70%, compared to 35-45% with it cycling. The joys of an oversized unit during cooler nights... 

During the day - Fan-On isn't so much of a problem, provided its hot and dry. If its cooler and humid, the problem crops up again. 
 

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