Modern makes of vintage Washers and Dryers

[Chetlaham]

With China making imitations and knock offs of everything, including entire EU and US cities, do you think someone will ever make a copy of the filter flo, WP belt drive, WP direct drive, Newton Maytag or even a Frigidaire?

I mean at some point someone must have at least tried?

 

[ryner1988]

You know, I've wondered this very thing many times. You'd think with all the dissatisfaction out there with modern products, some manufacturer would try to duplicate what worked for many years, even if it isn't a US company. Come to think of it, it would almost have to be foreign-made if this was ever attempted, because the regulations here are now so strict that Whirlpool and other such companies aren't permitted to try anything like that. It's a cool idea though.

 

[ryner1988]

Adding to that, let's say China produced a duplicate of the GE filter flow. That machine uses a ton of water, so while it's a great performer, they probably wouldn't be allowed to sell it here legally. Once again with the regulations keeping that from happening.

It's not to say I wouldn't love to see machines like that around again. The Department of Energy has ensured though that we have to make machines differently now.

 

[Chetlaham]

Sadly I have to agree. Energy regulations are ultimately the barrier to sales in the US.

I would imagine the cost of over seas shipping would play a role too. FFs were one the heaviest washers ever made, so I guess that would add significant cost to the price tag.

Regarding the patents and rights to these designs, how do they stand in the US?

I am tempted to think that if a Chinese company successfully began selling BDs or DD in the US Whirlpool would come out and say "hey, thats our design"

However, now that Haier owns GE appliances, there is some hope that FFs could be sold in at least some parts of the world.

 

[potatochips]

No, these old styles of washers will never come back. We have to stop speculating if they will, because they won't. I bet it has nothing to do with regulatory reasons or patent validity as to why, and has everything to do with the cost to make these machines. The margins on old machines would not make financial sense at all. The materials used to make a helical drive Maytag, the thickness of the cabinet, the gauge of the wiring, the motor, pump, transmission materials, etc these would eat in to any margin at an astronomical rate. It's not worth it, and that's without even considering the cost to make and maintain the factories to build these materials. 

 

And while it is sad new machines are disposable goods now, no one is in the streets protesting outside WP or LGs headquarters to make better machines, and no one is emailing their political reps to legislate quality. 

 

[Chetlaham]

Wire Guage

18 AWG and 16 AWG was and is used extensively in both modern and vintage appliances.

If anything in modern appliances you've got a separate neutral from each component going back up to the control board, vs one neutral wire going down the harness jumping from each component in older machines.

 

[maytag85]

The only way to make appliances like they did many years would be to have full automation of the stamping process of various panels and such and possibly assembly. That’s what they do with cars to make them more affordable for the consumer. It’s usually the stamping process of various panels and the labor it takes to put them together more so than anything else.

Reply #4, I think if the Maytag helical washers were to be made today it wouldn’t cost much more than a Speed Queen since they both have a similar-ish design in terms of how they wash and spin. Frankly, if Speed Queen were to use Maytag’s design they literally used from 1956 to 2006, probably would cost about the same maybe even a little less since Maytag’s design was simpler than Speed Queen’s current top load design despite both having a removable front access panel. Definitely would get Speed Queen a better reputation since they would be more reliable, and for sure easier to work on if you had to replace the belts, pump, or any other minor part if Speed Queen were to use Maytag’s design from many years ago.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Makes me wonder, has anybody converted a modern style drive

Washing machine, such as going from an inverter drive to a multispeed motor drive, the kind found in older style laundromat washing machines as well as some Hoover branded machinesWhere it’s literally just for speeds, Back and where it’s literally just for speeds, back and forth, distribute and spin, although you could add a fifth speed for delicate but 800 rpm should be good enough for everything,

 

[Chetlaham]

Reply #6 - Agree

100% agree. Newton style Maytags were made until 2006 and at the time did not cost all that much when compared to DDs. Newtons are simpler than Speed Queens, and use roughly, if not slightly less, the same amount of and type of of raw material.

If Whirlpool wanted to, they could have mass produced the Newtons (a dream come true) but chose not to in part because of the reduced capacity and they did not want to overhaul the Maytag factory. That and I think they knew DD production would cease in 5 years for their splutch drive designs.

The fact Reply #4 has already received 3 like I think speaks to the overall pessimistic view of how vintage appliances are viewed on this forum and the optimistic faith placed in modern appliances.

But, I think we can both agree on this: Most people today don't care or want to care about how modern appliances are made. They just approve of anything that has gangster bling-bling attached to it, appears featured, cheap and can do 2 weeks worth of laundry at once vs something simple and durable.

Ultimately its not so much the corporations, but the people's apathy and aloofness.

However, I hope to think that on the international level someone, somewhere would be yearning for an old fashioned North American machine.

 

[angus]

I think the other truth here is that while it is believed people are not happy with today's quality, outside of people on this forum and few others, most don't really care about laundry appliances, only price. In fact, I am continually surprised at how many people don't even remember what brand of laundry appliances they have. They know their cooktops, ranges, ovens, refrigerators and dishwashers but it is like it is almost taboo to know too much about your own laundry...

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

I know for a reference point, my mum doesn’t really care

As long as it actually does what she wants it to do, Even if something older does a better job, because I’ve shown her with my ringer washer that has a Center post agitatorWhenever I ask her to come and have a look at the water she’s quite surprised but yet she won’t admit that my machine the ringer washer does a better job compare to her thousand dollar LG Toploader

 

[qsd-dan]

There are ways around the system. If parts could be reproduced, then they could be legally sold anywhere. Sort of like building a 60's Mustang or Model A from the frame up suing aftermarket parts. Whole machines probably wouldn't fly under the radar except in the black market but even then, one could sell them locally as a "used" appliance even if it isn't. I think the "system" has bigger issues to deal with than cracking down on a small handful of people wanting to purchase and use an old school type appliance. Last time I checked, nobody goes to jail for owning, buying, selling, or using a wringer washer or even dumping the wash water in their own yard.

The biggest obstacle is quality and durability of materials and parts.

Trust me, I ponder about things like this a bit too much these days. If there wasn't a huge backlog of materials due to COVID, I'd be working on reproducing some Maytag parts right now.

 

[launderess]

No, modern incarnations of vintage laundry appliances

Are not coming back, at least not to previous standard of quality or whatever anytime soon.

There were many good reasons why GM and others saw writing on wall and got out of laundry appliance business by 1980's or so.

Huge pent up demand for laundry and other white goods began evaporating by 1970's as post war boom began to fizzle. Nearly all those who wanted a washing machine had one, and thus market became more and more reliant upon new home sales. Something that still holds true today.

Keep in mind that was all when USA white good manufacturers had nearly total captive market. By 1970's onwards arrival of cheaper foreign imports put pressure on prices. Makers found they couldn't build (including R&D and other associated costs) appliances and charge whatever they liked because same was with automobiles, Americans began looking at cheaper imports which put lid on prices.

But this is true for European appliance makers as well. My older Miele W1070 like many other washers of same vintage is built like a tank. Newer offerings are still up there, but Miele has been taking money out of their products for past few years now. If that's happening at top end, imagine what's going on at MOL and BOL.

Consumers at least in North America and Europe just won't pay adjusted prices for appliances built like vintage.

 

[Chetlaham]

Qsd-Dan, you're not pondering it to much these days my friend. You're heart, soul and mind are in the right place. With 3-D printed technology becoming accessible for everyone perhaps one day any one of us can build a vintage appliance from the ground up. You've got developing nations churning out semi descent washers from sheet metal presses, a signal that anyone can build a complete washer.

We already have the blueprints. All that is required is to scan each individual part, convert it to CAD, then either print it or print the molds that will cast it.

 

[bazzybtec]

I think largely The idea of building an appliance that will last 50+ years stifles future sales. if you build a junk washer that lasts the bare minimum you will end up having to sell another one down the track.

Having said that i have wondered about the 3d printing parts option. that will likely work for the likes of agitators and lint filters etc however metal parts such as basket drive assemblies are going to be harder.

I doubt it would be impossible however. Why don't we set up a section on the forum where cad blueprints can be placed for components that are no longer available so they can be fabricated?

 

[launderess]

Sea change for North American domestic laundry (and some OPL along with coin-op) has been move to H-axis washing machines.

Now that North America has joined most of civilized and industrialized western world, there's no going back. Indeed federal government has virtually made this so; that is by "vintage" laundry appliances one means top loaders, they are going way of Dodo.

Have said this before, and am doing so again; there are many reasons why commercial/industrial laundries went with h-axis washing machines from the start, and now general public is catching on.

As Angus and other posters have mentioned we here in the group are sort of special. Average American consumer just wants clean laundry without tons of bother, but he or she also is mindful (to various degrees) of energy and other costs.

Vintage top loaders like GE Filter Flow used ungodly amounts of water. If that was heated water in any way for washing (warm or hot) things only got better or worse depending upon one's view.





All but youngest members were around when major appliances meant just that; serious bit of kit that was meant to last ten or twenty years. For prices charged things had better last or companies heard about it.

Interestingly, but something those in industry likely know, prices for laundry and other major appliances actually have paced *below* inflation since 1970's.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/Laundry-equipment/price-inflation

By taking some of the money out of major appliances they became more affordable to larger share of households. Prices for washing machines in USA have ticked up lately largely due to introduction of front loaders which always cost more than top loading machines with central beaters.

 

[bazzybtec]

I would happily pay more for one of these BD whirlpools new. I also would argue at least the ones i own seem to actually use less water to my daily driver. My daily driver is an LG top loader. its only 12 months old and i am already noticing issues.
for example i have come to it and it has had quarter of a tub of water in it when it is off. (this will be a fault) however when it is running it fills the tub up washes for ages then drains spins fills up again then runs drains spins then fills up again then drains and spins. it uses way more water.

it takes an hour and 20 min to do a standard wash and it doesn't do as good a job in my opinion.

I have had a front loader washing machine again by LG and it only lasted 3 years before the board failed and i was told it was not worth fixing. it was also not a cheap one. ironically that machine was bought for me by mum because she felt bad that the washer i had at the time was grandmas Malleys whirlpool that seemingly had a faulty wig wag coil. a fault that i have since fixed when the LG died

 

[ozzie908]

Watching that filter Flo video

Until I noticed he was washing sheets in cold water...... GROSS

 

[Chetlaham]

Resource Saver

Perhaps a resource saver system would may modern belt drives more feasible? I can believe you on the BD being better than the LG.

Remember that modern Speed Queens show that a residential market does exist for quality machines.