More fun with coffee makers

[sudsmaster]

Live and learn.

Have a Cuisinart Thermal Burr Grind 'n Brew machine that I really like.

No problems, really, with it. I even stopped using a Keurig machine in favor the the CTBGNB.

However I learned something today.

I had assumed that at the various brew strength settings, the machine simply bypassed the grounds and shunted hot water directly into the pot for the milder brew setting. Like on lesser coffee makers. To avoid this I would add less water to the machine for the same brew cup setting, thinking this would result in a stronger brew. And it did. But it turned out I didn't have to do that.

I had switched from "mild" to "medium" and noticed the machine was going through grounds quicker. Hmmm. Could it be the machine is smart enough to grind more beans at the stronger setting?

To test this, I timed the grinding at "mild" and "strong" settings. Sure enough on the 4 cup setting, the time for grinding on mild was 15 seconds. The time for strong, 20 seconds. That's a 33% increase. Not too shabby. Kudos to Cuisinart for getting that right.

Anyway, my discomfiture over having made an incorrect assumption about this machine, is more or less ameliorated by the fact that from now on I don't have to fuss around with different water levels but rather simply set the brew strength to what I want.

Of course for REALLY strong brew I could set it to "strong" and then add less water than indicated on the dial. Or set the dial to more cups than the water level.

Whatever.

Right now I'm happy with "medium".

 

[rp2813]

Rich, I noticed longer grinding with my CBGNB based on strength settings as well.  You're correct about tweaking the amount of water if a particular setting isn't to your liking.

 

For daily use, I have the number of cups set to 4, brew strength on "strong" and I fill the carafe with 6 cups worth of water.

 

I've tried 6 cups at medium strength and it doesn't turn out the same.  If I bump it up to "strong" it's too strong.  When set for 2 or 4 cups, the machine brews more slowly to extract maximum flavor from the small amount of grounds, so I prefer to work with the 4-cup setting. 

 

When guests are over, all bets are off.  I'll usually increase everything proportionally.  Since 6 cups is half a pot, to make a full pot of 12 cups, I bump up the number of cups to 8 and leave the strength on "strong."  It usually turns out decent that way.

 

I'm don't remember the settings you used when you brewed up a pot here back on St. Patrick's Day, but it turned out fine!

 

[tomturbomatic]

This is not about grinding, but even back in the 1950s, CU said that with automatic perks, the best way to brew coffee was to set the control at STRONG and adjust the ratio of ground coffee to water. STRONG was just a higher thermostat setting so go for maximum extraction of what you use. The Coffeemaster vacuum brewer had a fixed brewing time no matter the quantity so varying the ratio of coffee to water was the only way to vary the strength and most economical.

 

[rp2813]

Bleccch!  I don't think I could stomach perked coffee out of a metal pot that had been set to "strong."  The recycling through the grounds is bad enough on a "mild" setting.  If I were stuck with one of those, I'd use more coffee and the mildest setting to inflict the least amount of damage during the brewing process.

 

Like the Coffeemaster, with the Corning Electromatic the ratio of coffee to water was left up to the user, since those percolators had no option for brew strength.

 

[danemodsandy]

Ralph:

I don't think I could stomach perked coffee out of a metal pot that had been set to "strong."

Funny how tastes vary - I have a hard time with anything else.

And I have been through every other fancy-schmantzy kind of coffee maker there is - Krups, Bosch, Toshiba Mill 'n Drip, Cuisinart Grind and Brew, you name it.

I am back to a plain Farberware Superfast stainless perc, and it makes the coffee of my dreams.

I think one of the problems with percs is that they're a bit tricky to clean thoroughly, and stale coffee oil is death to coffee quality. A stainless perc is easiest to clean, bypassing that problem.

Now, if I could only get Eight o'Clock (formerly A&P) Bokar without a joint Act of Congress. Eight o'Clock coffee is everywhere - except Bokar. That you have to special-order through the company's Website, and it's a PITA. Make that an expensive PITA.

 

[philr]

Sandy,

Funny you say that, 

 

Paul gets a bag for me (and a few for him!) at Food Basics when he goes to Ontario, I don't thing we get any kind of Eight o'Clock coffee anywhere around here either!

 

Paul also uses his Faberware Superfast often and I recently got one at a thrift store and I also like it!

 

 

 

 

http://www.foodbasics.ca/en/index.html

 

[danemodsandy]

Phil:

If you're about to join the exclusive club of Farberware Superfast owners, I may as well tell you the secret to a squeaky-clean stainless perc - without hassle.

Oven cleaner.

Yep, spray it inside the old girl, and spray all her parts (basket, spreader, lid and stem) with it. Be sure and get some down inside the stem. If your lid has a Bakelite knob instead of a glass perc dome, keep the oven cleaner off the knob, because it will dull it. The knob unscrews.

You will also need a perc tube brush (get the Rubbermaid one if you can find it; the Quickie brand is evidently named for how fast it wears out). A perc tube brush lets you scrub the inside of the perc tube. WARNING: The first time you clean an older perc's tube with a tube brush, prepare to be disgusted! After that, it's no different than cleaning anything else with a brush, but the first time is always spectacularly nasty.

Let the oven cleaner sit for 15 minutes or so, rinse well, then wash very well with hot soapy water and rinse well again.

Sparkling, clean-as-new, and easy to keep that way with daily soap-and-water washing and the use of the tube brush. After a long time, a golden tint of coffee oil will build up again; just repeat with the oven cleaner.

 

[philr]

Mine is a newer model with the Bakelite knob... I wouldn't have thought about using oven cleaner in a coffee maker! I guess that's something you don't want to use on one that's made of anodized aluminum! 

 

[danemodsandy]

Right You Are!

Oven cleaner is very injurious to aluminum of all kinds; it becomes cloudy from the alkali.

BTW, if you have a self-cleaning oven and don't ordinarily use oven cleaner, the cheap kind from the discount or dollar store does the job just fine.

 

[danemodsandy]

Oh, and P.S.:

Searching out a lid with the glass perc top to substitute for the Bakelite-knobbed version is not a bad idea. The Achilles heel of the Bakelite-knobbed version is that the knob's threads strip eventually; the strain of pulling the top off the perc is what does it. You'll notice that the edge of the lid has detents on it, to keep the lid in place while pouring; these create resistance when removing the lid, and that's what puts strain on the knob's threads.

The perc-top lid uses a standard Fitz-All glass replacement perc top, readily available in hardware stores.

 

[sudsmaster]

Coffee maker thermostats

The simplest automatic drip coffee maker simply boils the water in a heating coil at the bottom of the reservoir, and the boiling sends the water up a tub that sprays on top of the grounds in the filter holder. Since the brewing is dependent up on the water boiling, there doesn't seem to me to be much way to alter the temperature of the water. Machines with pumps, of course, might be able to alter the temperature, but not your typical drip maker.

This is why I figure the way that brew strength is altered on various auto drop units with fancy names like "Flavor Master" simply direct some of the boiled water to bypass the grounds, resulting in a milder brew. The strongest setting would be like a no frills drip maker: all the hot water goes through the grounds.

The beauty of a grind and brew coffee maker is that if designed right, it can vary the amount of coffee, keeping the water volume that meets the grounds constant, which is really the best way to adjust brew strength.

I may be wrong about this...

 

[rp2813]

Back in the early 70's, our first generation Norelco automatic drip machine had a simple pre-Dial-a-Brew basket with a hole in the center of the lid.  I noticed that it would sometimes pump out more water than the shallow lid could hold, and it would overflow through the center hole straight into the carafe, never having made contact with any of the grounds. 

 

I don't know what the logic was behind such a design.  If over time things became sluggish due to scale build-up, I would think the brew the machine rendered would get stronger.  Why they designed a lid that couldn't hold all the water that was pouring onto it, I don't know.  I always thought that was kind of strange.  Maybe Dial-a-Brew did away with this particular issue, but that is not to say the first generation system didn't turn out a stellar cup of coffee.

 

Regardless, the first pot of coffee brewed up in the Norelco was a revelation.  It was so far superior to what the Corning Electromatic had been perking out up until then.  I remember it tasting like the coffee grounds smelled prior to brewing.  Back then my sister worked for Ten Speed Press, which at the time was a small operation that had its offices in an old apartment building she and her husband managed in Berkeley.  They had a Norelco there in which they brewed Peets.  She was so impressed with it that she gave my parents one for Christmas.  The rest is history, as we all swore off percolators from that point forward.

 

From an aesthetic/industrial design perspective, even a 70s percolator is more pleasing to the eye than an automatic drip machine, but in this case the product rendered seals the deal for me, and function wins big over form.

 

[ovrphil]

Sandy, you got me going now. I need a perc tube brush for Superfast. Our is w/o the percolator glass..looking to replace the bakelight top. When I bought our Superfast, the perc tube was stuck in place. I couldn't get it out. Over a few times, it finally loosened. No one ever mentioned using oven cleaner- will be trying that, as that hole is still cruddy looking.

Just curious ...does your Superfast basket have a lid? My Goodwill Superfast has no metal lid that would cover the paper coffee filter.

thanks!

 

[rp2813]

Just curious.  Don't products such as "Dip It" clean the tube/stem or is a brush required in addition to that treatment?

 

With regard to Corning Electromatics, Robert's advice to dump about a teaspoon of powdered dishwasher detergent into the basket (no phosphates required) and brew up a full pot is an easy way to get one of those percolators sparkling clean.  I keep one around to provide hot water for guests who prefer tea.

 

[philr]

I have a few Philips/Norelco 12 cup coffee makers with both the early style basket and the Dial-A-Brew (also the early style, narrower Dial-A-Brew basket) and I prefer the regular basket to the Dial-A-Brew because it's easier to clean and I don't see much of a difference between both!  I'm wondering what's the principle of the Dial-A-Brew. Is it that water gets cooled down more or less time in it's path to the coffee grinds depending of the adjustment on the dial?

 

I have also been wondering about the tube that lets water pass through at the center of the basket and it's purpose. 

[this post was last edited: 9/28/2013-04:25]

 

[ovrphil]

rp2813 - Right! Dip It , an old standby, will work.(as their site recommends: " Use DIP-IT® Food & Beverage Stain Remover to clean your tea pot. Fill the pot with boiling water. Stir in 2 Tablespoons of DIP-IT® per quart of water. Let stand for 20 minutes. Rinse thoroughly and dry.") Maybe Sandy's idea of oven-cleaner is economy - works if you don't want to buy a specialized product?

Our Regal Easy-Flow Percolator brews a very hot batch. Over time, some percolators may weaken in the heating element, perhaps? That'll always impact your brew quality. Aw.org members like Bunn, Percolators, and drip. Fresh water, clean machine, filter types,heating degrees before brew, and coffee type and grind....and taste. It's interesting what people prefer.

PhilR: I have to say, that's a classy looking Phillips-Norelco 12(daily driver?)

 

[polkanut]

My wife just came back from visiting her girlfriend for 1 ½ weeks, and the first thing she said was how happy she was to have coffee made in her 1st generation Norelco Dial-A-Brew.  Her gf has a cheapie Black & Decker drip machine.  Bev said that compared to the Norelco, the B & D took forever, and the flavor was barely tolerable.  We have 2 Dial-A-Brew's in daily use here because she likes flavored coffee, and I don't.  One thing I've learned is that we can't plug both machines into plugs on the same circuit.  It will blow the breaker every time because the current draw is 1500 volts per machine.  We picked up both machines at estate sales for $5 apiece, and we have a spare in storage too. 

 

[danemodsandy]

Oven Cleaner vs. Dip-It

ovrphil has it right - Dip-It is a one-trick pony, while oven cleaner does a lot of jobs. I use it frequently for de-gunking kitchenware of many kinds; it makes nasty Corning Ware and Pyrex sparkle again, and it's aces for anything stainless.

Philr: Your basket is definitely supposed to have a top - it's called a "spreader." Its purpose is to distribute hot water evenly over the entire surface of the grounds in the basket. Here is a photo of one that's for sale on eBay; the spreader is on the right. It's stainless, just like the basket. I would not make superhuman efforts to find a lid with the perc top, because "having" to have one means you'll spend a lot of money; perc-top lids are much rarer than knobbed ones. Just keep your eyes peeled (I will too), and one will turn up.

Here's a link to the eBay auction where that basket and spreader are for sale:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B1290-Vinta...544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a83429b18

 

[danemodsandy]

Norelco Dial-A-Brew:

One of those was my first "quality" drip maker.

While it did a very decent job of brewing, the brew basket was a monumental PITA. It sat atop the carafe, and that meant you had to remove it to get at the coffee, finding a stain-resistant, waterproof place to put it.

I have never seen such great physical quality wasted on such a dunderheaded design.

 

[polkanut]

We're lucky that both of ours on each side of the kitchen sink.  So when it's done we just put the basket in the dish drainer, and empty it when it has cooled down enough to handle.  We've gotten used to it and don't even think about it anymore.