Most powerful motor

[panthera]

Well, some truth in all of that

I have no problem admitting that I do NOT like modern dishwashers, not even the current MIELE - which are the best of the best.

They all just act as if the logic is being used to compensate for marginal engineering.

 

As to the endless pre-rinsing discussions - if we didn't scrape ALL the potato remains off the plates/bowls in any KA EXCEPT the 15 (which is truly a brilliant piece of engineering) (and a pain to load) then we'd have finally distributed potato starch over everything.

 

 

 

[Chetlaham]

Not dissing, if one of you guys measured the water usage on a Whirlpool with an ultra dirty load, I have a feeling it won't be 3-5 gallons.

 

[washerdude]

Not trying to to hijack the thread...

Just thought i'd leave this here...

.
.
.
.
.

Now thats some fine BS at its best.

 

[panthera]

Very Impressive

As I've said before, dishwashers suffered from three really bad things happening to them all at once:

Low energy

Low water

No phosphates

 

After 10-15 years of bad performance, the manufacturers delivered machines that cleaned well beginning about six/seven years ago.

 

Now - how many hours did those machines run before the pizza/cake were gone? And how many equally dirty loads would a 1980's Potscrubber have gotten clean in that time - 3? 4?

 

 

http://https//www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/cooking-tips-techniques/cooking/bob-blumers-dishwasher-salmon-recipe

 

[henene4]

Probably 2-4 hours

The thing is: Do you have 3-4 loads of dishes you have to clean within 2-4 hours? Ever? And if ever, how often?

 

[panthera]

I'm so glad you asked that

The part of the US in which we live is even less well populated than Mac-Pom at it's most beautiful emptiness.

So - entertaining friends (at least once a week, roughly six times a month) means never less than four full loads in the dishwasher. Sometimes five or, when the 1953 Westinghouse Roaster is involved, six.

 

Now, I can run the modern energy-saving, water-saving dishwasher (which does clean well ) for over two hours per load (not counting dry time) for over eight hours, meaning a dirty kitchen for two days. Or, I can bang the stuff into each 1980's Potscrubber or a Potscrubber and a KA 15 and be done with the whole mess and in bed at one in the morning, waking up to a clean kitchen the next morning when we get up at 6.00 (yes, I sleep in, joy of owning your own business).

Wir berichten, Sie entscheiden! You've got the info, now you choose.

 

 

[johnb300m]

These conversations are futile.
They don't make Potacrbbers anymore nor do they make Powercleans.
This forum is for discussing modern appliances and constantly arguing how much
people think they suck is pointless.
What are outside visitors supposed to learn in this forum?
That anything on sale at their local stores is trash?

Not sure how that's helpful to anyone......

There are GE machines and WP machines that have quicker cycles.
Such as the 75min Nornal GE cycle or the WP 1hr. Wash.
And they're probably adequate since the majority of people STILL pre-rinse all their dishes.

 

[washman]

The reason modern junk is discounted.........is.............well...........because it is junk.

 

And it's not just appliances, but pretty much anything these days. The quality simply is not there. 

Remember when tube tvs used to last? Now if you can get your super duper TFT, Halo anointed 12w of electrical usage to outlast the warranty, well jolly good for you and boy were you ever lucky!

 

Remember when ice boxes used to come with a 5 year warranty on the sealed refrigeration system?

 

Hell, at least my 1999 era GE plastic fantastic washer had a lifetime warranty on the fantastic plastic tub!  Not anymore!

 

Some of us old fogies are old enough to fondly remember when there was a nuance of quality in most things.  For shits and giggles, go read up on the new lineup of Husquvarna riders.  Nearly all of them come with a plastic, that's right, plastic CVT made in Mexico or China by General Transmission.  Methinks it is not repairable and I've read plenty online about how unreliable it is.

 

Some perhaps might define this as progress. I don't. Personally I think it is a travesty at the state of things today.  Sure we have more choices than ever and every BIG BOX has some kind of buy now, no interest, pay later finance plan to extract that last dime from the hapless customer. But there's more to the story than that. There's landfills chock full of stuff that is simply tossed out because it cannot be repaired or it is not cost effective to do so. Some of the things are so chintzy it is an embarrassment to manufacturing. Eli Whitney would turn over in his grave if he saw the crap today.

 

No, I'm not at all impressed with NEW! IMPROVED! CHEAPER! EPA SANCTIONED! ALGORE BLESSED! anything today until I see first hand how it works and how it lasts.

 

And don't get me started on $250 Wi-fi capable thermostats that can be managed with yet another "killer app" on one's dumbphone.  Like it is sooooooooooo important and necessary to manage  your AC or furnace setting at 2:30 in the afternoon while in the office or at the mall.........................please.

 

[Chetlaham]

I say

We do a test. All said here is meaningless until we verify in the spirit of AW.org. Load a new machine up dirty and have it drain into buckets. My bet is it will use more than 5 gallons.

 

[johnb300m]

Great, washman.
You're 1 person.
Not the market.
And until sales and profits are impacted, appliance companies will stay the course.
Besides, all the current 3-5 star reviews they have online will bolster their positions.

So you hate modern stuff. Great.
Do something then, than clog up the forums with nostalgic feelings. And trying to prove to everyone that anything after 1980 is crap.
Go be an appliance journalist or EPA scientist (oh sorry, those jobs are being eliminated)
Or go work for Whirlpool or LG.
Make a difference.

I lived through the 80s. Some things were great and some were absolute crap.
Just like today. No different.

If my cousin needs a DW tomorrow, this is probably the last research source I'd send her.
Except for maybe Murando's stellar WP thread.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>Washman:  And don't get me started on $250 Wi-fi capable thermostats that can be managed with yet another "killer app" on one's dumbphone.  Like it is sooooooooooo important and necessary to manage  your AC or furnace setting at 2:30 in the afternoon while in the office or at the mall.........................please.</blockquote> Just to say, I thought at first that the WiFi thermostats at work were unnecessary but they've proved to be quite useful.

1)  I can lock-out the buttons on them so control is only via the app, which prevents customers from cranking the cooling down to 60°F or the heat to 85°F if someone breaks into the security cover, which has happened in the past.
 
2)  Monitoring the temperature has allowed me on several occasions to determine that there was a malfunction (such as 2nd stage cooling not working), which *no one* on the premises would have noted the problem as quickly.

 

[panthera]

This thread is for machines made in the last 20 years

GE is still selling brand new potscrubbers, I just ordered seven at our local Homeless Despot for an apartment complex.

So, what on earth is the point?

We all acknowledge that modern dishwashers and modern detergents do a good job of cleaning.

We all acknowledge that, unless one pre-rinses and pre-scrubs (in which case they 'only' need sixty-seventy-five minutes) they need more than two and often three or four hours to clean.

Yes, they use less water and less energy. Unless, of course, one pre-rinses, in which case they use MORE than a potscrubber which doesn't need things to be pre-rinsed.

As for the TSP arguments, sorry, but chemistry isn't subject to personal opinion. It does not cause eutrophication and no amount of screaming about it will change that.

 

So - don't bother reading threads which you don't care for. Le Poof! Problem solved.

 

 

 

[johnb300m]

Those aren't Potscrubbers.

 

[panthera]

Yes, they are

Most definitely Potscrubbers by any rational definition.

BOL or near BOL, but in every way Potscrubbers:

The tower of power is interchangeable with any non-orbital Potscrubber (and with minor effort with any)

Their sump, pump, 'soft-food disposer', drain system, filtration are identical and one-to-one replacements for virtually all BOL/MOL potscrubbers from the last 4 decades.

Their cutlery, lower rack and upper rack are interchangeable.

Their timer is interchangeable. The programs are identical to various BOL/MOL programs used since the late 1990's in Potscrubber III. Oh, and GE dropped the 'III' right quick, too.

Their heated water selection is identical to BOL/MOL systems used by GE for their Kenmore Potscrubber systems.

Their---Oh, come on - in what manner are they not Potscrubbers? A missing label? Because they say 'Hotpoint'?

 

[Chetlaham]

Potscrubber

Considering the main wash cycle time being 56 minutes, Its not far off from the original concept.

I understand people are satisfied and appreciate the current performance of modern machines and I myself do for the most part, but I can not live with something that could last less than 10 years. Whats that point? What is the point in making what is basically complete junk in terms of durability and reliability with replacement parts that cost half the purchase price? Whats the point of a machine jumping from $400 to $800 for just a few extra cycles enabled into the same control board?

"Not the market" Yes, because people 1. Need appliances no matter what (picture gas/diesel going to $20 a gallons, people would still keep buying it because we can't function without it), 2. Most do not know better, especially current millennials. 3. Those that do know, have no nothing to choose from. Yes washer and dryer folks can bypass the BS through Speed Queen, but what about other white goods? Sure that $5,000 commercial Hobart can last 30+ years, but it just won't work in a residential setting. In short consumers are being miss lead, lied to, and forced to spend more on glitz and glamour.

The blunt truth, and what no one will tell you is that if LG, Samsung, GE and Whirlpool sold their $1000 machines for only $500 they would still be making a profit. Today's machines cost next to nothing to make, built to become obsolete, yet are sold as though their makers invested lavishly in raw material with the anticipation the consumer would not buy another one for decades to come. Again, GE built appliances that costed next to nothing to make, yet lasted 30+ years under abuse conditions not found in typical homes all while doing a respectable job.

Case in point:

A person can purchase a $1,500 Speed Queen front load that not only lasts 30+ years, but uses little energy, cleans faster than traditional front loads and has leading warranty. No HE syndromes and proven reliability for decades in the commercial bossiness.

For the same money a person can purchase a glitzy LG signature or something similar from Samsung or Whirlpool. Looks great, sings songs, uses less energy, everyone gets impressed by it- could even be WIFI; but takes longer to wash, does not last more than 12 years- assuming your lucky and it makes it that far. Good luck with something breaking after one year, and hopefully you are not the guinea pig for the first model generation which more often that not does have bugs because its so cheaply engineered.

 

[johnb300m]

Haha Haha
Vindicated that this "new is junk" argument will never end.
You guys better pray every night a tornado doesn't hit the Speed Queen plant.
The tears would fill an old Norge 10x over.

It's sad. You guys will never ever be happy with anything unless it's old.
It's too bad so many are setting themselves up for a life of disappointment.

This thread was to discuss motors on the market.
And of course it's spiraled out of control into the realm of nostalgia and emotional arguments.

Every time a thread goes down this path, it whittles away more and more at the relevance of this Deluxe forum.

AND I've used those GE HP machines with Potscrubber ancestry.
I'll reiterate; they're not Potscrubbers.
Go ahead and use their donor parts to maybe keep your Potscrubbers alive.
Just because some components are similar does not make them the Potscrubbers of yesteryear.
They're set up to use and distribute less volumes of water.
Modified to maybe work with modern detergents. At best.
And they are usurped in performance by more modern architecture.

 

[Chetlaham]

"You guys will never ever be happy with anything unless it's old"

Nope, I think our (at least my) adoration for Speed Queen is proof of that not being so. Speed Queen is new, not old. Do I love vintage top loads? You bet! But if someone gave me a new in box Speed Queen front load to use as a daily driver would I jump for joy and take it? Heck yahhh!!!!!!!

Its not that I am stuck on age or ideology, I just want something without all the BS while being able to last 30+ years.

 

[panthera]

John,

If you are willing to use TSP and 145F water, they wash great. Especially with the newest detergents, even without TSP.

True, GE foolishly lowered the water consumption in a vain attempt to make a high-water system look 'efficient'.

Fortunately, though, they left more than enough water to work.

Now - do I wish for the multi-orbital arm? Yup. Do I wish for the old 900Watt element,Yup.

But, yes, you're quite right - I do regard them as donor-parts. Why not? With a bit of effort, one can turn a new potscrubber into a vintage one.

 

 

[washman]

Well John you missed the year. I say 1979 because that was the last year Mcgraw Edison owned Speed Queen and the last year GM made Frigidaire.

 

I do pray that the the SQ plant in Ripon survives another 100 years. Or at least until I pass on.

 

I did do something today. I dug up a few rocks in my yard, chucked them in the driveway.

Then I proceeded to use my ultramodern (2016) EPA and CPSC casterated mower, complete with a 24HP B&S motor that provided me nearly an hour of BS yard cutting because the effing thing can't handle slightly damp grass, won't discharge the stuff evenly (yes I shortened the asinine plastic deflector.........a whole bunch in fact), and I marvelled at how at 90's era Ariens with a 13 HP single cyl. Junkumesh OHV engine would outcut this overhyped super safe POS of a mower.  But hey, if I fall off the seat, it stops. If I have a coronary and croak whilst I mow, it will stop.  It even makes me turn the key so I can mow in reverse. How thoughtful. NEver mind I spent thousands of hours mowing on old school riders (long before  you were born cochise) and never had to contend with a ROS issue.

I could go on, but hopefully you are perceptive enough to get the point. And while we're at it, maybe YOU should go someplace and tout how wonderful all the modern stuff is. I'm sure you'll find an audience.

 

[johnb300m]

Yeah. THIS is supposed to be the audience.
This is the modern forum. 1997 to today.

But whenever anyone tries to have a meaningful conversation about machines of that timeframe it gets derailed by a select audience with totally irrelevant commentary.

I'm sorry to the OP that we're no longer discussing current market motors.