MOVING A MAYTAG E2L

[e2l-arry]

THE MOTOR

Just might be the problem after all. I did some checking on line today and from what I can tell these use a split phase motor. At least that's what I suspected since there's no evidence of a capacitor anywhere on the outside of the motor. The site said they're very common in under 1 HP applications. I'm no electrician but from what I understand, larger motors need a capacitor to provide power at start up and capacitors retain charge like a battery to provide it. Split phase use some other method to get them up to speed. Something about a start up winding separate from the main winding. Now this makes sense to be because mine fails shortly after start up. I plugged it in this afternoon and it quit in the first couple of minutes. Once I got it running like I did Friday it ran fine. so I suspect something is failing between the start up winding and transitioning to the main winding. Anyway, I'm going to remove it from the machine tonight and see what information, if any, I can get from the motor casing itself. I also read that these a simple enough to replace with like motors from W.W Granger or the like. They said it's more cost effective to replace vs. repair so if I can find a good match replacement match I'll likely just go for that.If not I'll find a shop in Denver that reworks small motors. Then of course replace with a 3 pronged grounded plug. I do remember as a kid with wet hands getting a good shock unplugging Grandma's washer

As far as the replacement pulley fro the pump, it looks like mine would already accommodate one. It's flat on the one side but had a 1/2" lip on the other. Here's a picture. Geoff, is that what it looks like or would I still have to trade this out for a pulley with an even bigger lip for the pump?

FUN! FUN! FUN!!

Larry

 

[qsd-dan]

I wonder if it's a lubrication problem?

On earlier model units, the original motors had 2 oiling ports at each end of the shaft and could be oiled without removing the motor.

Later model motors needed to be completely disassembled in order to oil them. IIRC, Maytag recommended a dealer to disassemble and oil the motor every 5 years for these style motors.

I purchased an older model motor with oil ports on Ebay last year to replace the original newer style motor that's currently in my E2LPS. This will allow me to periodically (over) oil the motor without having to remove it. It'll get fully disassembled, cleaned, shimmed, oiled, and assembled before I swap it in.

 

[stan]

Larry

if your going to pull that baby out, I'd try what Dan suggested first.
Again, nothing lost by trying the least path of resistance!
Once your in (disassembled) you may spot the problem yourself, and "fingers crossed" it be something simple,
Still feel your doing it a world of good just running it, and getting things moving!

Thanks Geoff for the info! I plug mine into a power strip and turn on and off the the switch there, instead of plugging, and un plugging from this 100 year old outlet! LOL.
But glad to know it's possible, and that there may be a third neutral screw.

 

[e2l-arry]

It's out!

But there's not a whole lot to disassemble from what I can see. It would take a professional to get it out of it's casing so I won't go there. I do see where the 2 oiling ports are so maybe a few drops of 3 in 1? I can try that and give it a good cleaning while I'm at it I might as well replace the power cord. I had second thoughts about just replacing the motor. It would have to be dimensionaly the same or I may never get it hooked back into the Maytag brace. It's running now, quiet as a mouse. I'll see if it shuts off here in a minute but not being hooked up to anything lightens the load so won't really simulate real use. So I'll oil it up, re-install tomorrow and see it that cures it. I'm all for an easy fix when at all possible.

 

[qsd-dan]

so maybe a few drops of 3 in 1?

Just make sure you're using the blue 3 in 1 bottle and NOT the red one!

 

[e2l-arry]

UH OH,

I already used the red one. What's the difference?

 

[qsd-dan]

Blue Can = 20 weight turbine oil that lacks detergents, paraffins, and naptha.

Red Can = 10 weight oil that contains detergents and paraffins. It also contains naptha which gets dirt into suspension, then evaporates and leaves dirt on the bearing surface. Dirt being ground into the bearing while operating will quickly wear out the bearings.

 

[e2l-arry]

Oh well,

I already used a few drops in each port. So I put the thing in the dishwasher and ran it on pots n' pans cycle to remove it all. Just kidding! Should I try to flush it out with some WD-40 or leave bad enough alone? It spins quite freely anyway. I found a metal shaving under the cover where the plug connects to the motor. Maybe that did something, shorting between terminals and then maybe not. Tomorrow I'm going to put on a new grounded cord and try it again. If it still has issues I found a small electric motor repair shop locally. Says they've been in business over 40 years and can handle all repair or replacement needs.

 

[qsd-dan]

It'll probably be ok. You may want to pick up a blue 3 in 1 bottle and squirt some turbine oil in the ports to dilute the other oil. It's also the proper lubricant to use.

Most people way back when used anything that remotely resembled oil in these applications, especially vintage fans with oil ports. Those fans are still running decades later, so you should be fine.

 

[e2l-arry]

Well, the motor is fine!

But the transmission is most likely hosed! DAMN! I took out the motor and cleaned, oiled and replaced the power cord with a new grounded one. That cord! It looked fine but where it connected to the motor was a mess. All brittle and cracked. The black wire was all electrical tape and the white one was brittle and cracked in about 5 places. So, I put it back in the machine hoping all world be well. And it was. For about 4 minutes. Then it froze but now instead of the motor just humming it continued to run slipping the belt. So I unplug and the PU pulley is frozen. I can't turn it in the direction it's supposed to go. I can back it up a a few revolutions freeing it, then go forward and it loosens up. Plug her back in and it'll run 5 or 6 minutes and it happens all over again. It's done it about 4 times now in about 25 minutes. So . . . she may look good, . . . but she no run so good! Now I'm stumped. Anyone want to buy some newly painted E2L parts! LOL!

 

[geoffdelp]

Now, now, now Larry ... here comes your chance to learn about the transmission! Don't give up yet! You can have the chance now to really clean up the machine and once you're done, you will have a machine that will run and run.

Did you get a service manual for these machines yet? I think I still see them on eBay or doesn't Phil have one that is on CD? Double-check and it's time to start reading it.

REMOVE THAT TUB. Start there. Doesn't Phil have a reasonably priced used tub to sell you? Take out that transmission. Remove the center plate and look inside. Clean it well and get that pulley moving again. It's bound somehow. Maybe it just needs a good clean out and thrust adjustment. Could be as simple as that!

Replace all of those gaskets; the service manual will show you how. Once you're done with everything, spray those parts underneath with primer and then white paint; that machine will look and run like new!!

Just try it; you might like it!! It can be pretty rewarding and you will probably be surprised at how simple it really is!!

 

[e2l-arry]

Thanks Geoff

I'm up for that challenge but my only obstacle it that tub. It's practically welded/glued/cemented to the center plate. I'm sure with enough time and effort I can get it out. How difficult is it to get a "normal" tub out? The Service Manual says something like "You'll probably need help removing the tub." Once this one is out, it will be toast. Phil did say he still has a few so I'll be checking with him tomorrow. This can't be as difficult as getting that stuck agitator spline off.

I do already have a Service and Parts manual so I've been reading up. On the re-assembly of the power unit they mention the final adjustment of the thrust bearing? A few notches until the pulley gets stiff then back off a notch or 2 and lock it in place. Is that something I should try or could I end up making things worse? It's funny but after the 3 stalls in 15 minutes, it ran for over an hour and 1/2 with no issues. The occasional weird noise but that's normal on this machine.

So not to worry. I've invested too much time and got her too pretty to give up now. Truth is, I've discovered over the last month that I like having a project. And this Maytag is the project that just keeps giving!!

 

[geoffdelp]

Larry ... Don't mess with the thrust unless you have to. Try cleaning out the transmission first. Parts cleaner works best and you don't have to disassemble all the transmission parts. I've had them feel "frozen" before and after emptying the old fluid (some has even jelled because of water getting into it)and thoroughly cleaning with liquid parts cleaner ... soaking if necessary ... I've gotten the transmission to free up nicely. These machines just need TLC.

The reason why they say you might need help removing the tub is: original cast aluminum tub were HEAVY and/or secondly, the spun aluminum tubs need to be slowly removed ... 2 sides first then the other 2 sides, next 2 sides ... you sort of "shimmy" it out of there. It's easier with one person on one side and another on the other side and both pulling up at the same time. The spun aluminum tubs are super light.

Once you get that tub out of there, you'll feel better that you can get to the center plate/transmission. Don't forget to utilize Phil; he's a WEALTH of information and has the parts to boot!!

Be prepared for a lot of dripping oil/transmission fluid. Take it apart over something like an old blanket or drop cloth or plastic; it's easier to clean up!

Have fun! I sure like playing around with those machines.

 

[stan]

I'm soo

butt hurt! LOL
after all Larrys work you'd think he would have been rewarded with a working machine! I guess no good deed... Damn it!

Think we should all admire his tenacity on this!
I'd have pushed the SOB into the river, if I'd gone to this trouble. (but I digress)

Chin up dude, we are with you, keep going!

 

[wringer]

Larry,

I was sad to read of your latest situation with your baby this AM. Thank goodness Geoff is on board here for his expertise and knowledge. He is right about Phil. I worked with Phil on info and parts for a few years prior to my finding the Amish shop here. I am wondering if maybe a dremel (spelling?) may be helpful in removing the cement around the tub bolts without damaging the notches on them? Just a thought. New ones are available if you do ruin them when removing them. Geoff can correct me on this but I think the later models may have had hex bolts in them????? Not so certain that a screen would fit down over them tho ???? There is one thing for certain, and that is the fact that you have not given up on this good ole gal. Please do keep us informed on your progress !! I think that between Phil and Geoff you will do OK here and she will run for years and years. Good Luck !

Jim

 

[wringer]

Note to Mr. Mickeyd,

Well, I went to Lowe's yesterday and found an aluminum plain ends goose neck that is 1" in dia. My 5/8" fill hose fits right through it and now I have things going in the right direction for filling tubs not having to worry about the hose coming out of the tub. Of course, it was made in China. Just thought I would let you know that I have accomplished my project and am wondering how you are doing on the lawn sprinkler system????????? LOL. Best to all !

Jim

 

[mickeyd]

HI Jim

I'll get on it right away today, or first thing in the morning, LOL.

 

Glad you found it. There's always a way to rig automatic, valve-like filling on a conventional, YAY !

 

LARRY: If I'm reading right, your motor stalling has stopped. So it's all good, I presume. My Norge did the same thing 4 or 5 times at the beginning of summer after a year and a half of hibernation, but now it's fine and hasn't stalled since the end of June. Her skirt goes to the floor, so I had to lay her down to get at the belt, which was a real pain in the banana, but I kept at it, patiently attending to her demands, and she finally healed.

[this post was last edited: 9/19/2012-11:57]

 

[geoffdelp]

Jim is right; the hex head bolts are available and are SO MUCH BETTER than the gulmite system with the bolt, washer cap, rubber washer. The hex head are 1/2 drive on your socket set and with an extension on, are super easy to get on/off. Once you swap those out, you won't hesitate to remove the tub any time. Phil's got them and you buy them by the set ... 2 long bolts and 4 short bolts. You will need 2 additional bolts for securing the center plate to the transmission.

Phil also has the gasket sets you need and the lubrication. I buy a few things at a time ... basic clean-up of transmission "might" need: replacement of gulmite bolts with hex heads; gasket set for transmission/center plate; gasket set for right angle-drive and wringer post; correct lubrication to refill transmission; correct lubrication (grease) to refill wringer post. While you're at it, I'd replace that center seal on the center plate; it's easy and comes as a kit. Don't forget to replace the stop ring on the agitator shaft; it will keep your agitator held in place for a long time! Also, don't forget to purchase the tub to center plate rubber gasket; it's a narrow rubber gasket that goes in the groove of the center plate ... you'll see it when you remove the tub (if it's still there).

Make a list and just start with the transmission and tub.

Good luck and let us know how you're doing.

 

[e2l-arry]

Well today

after work I plugged in the washer and the motor went along fine. Fine enough that I decided to roll it over to the laundry room and do a load. She behaved like a perfect lady. So on one good note, at least, for now anyway, I can still use it until I start operating. And that just depends on when I can get the tub and the rest of the stuff I need. Even though some days it runs fine, I don't like the uncertainty that it will work, or even walk away for a bit. Plus something obviously needs attention "under the hood" I'm curious now as to what's in there? I'm betting on some real funky oil, or no oil practically at all. But I can use it as is for, hopefully as long as it takes to get all the parts.

So Stan, this is Colorado and I don't live near a river. The best I could do here is I'd have to push it off a mountain. And I can't say I didn't think about that!

 

[stan]

Larry

I was just so disappointed for you, guess I got too emotional! LOL
I'm near a river... so ... my first thought was...

I'll be curious to know what you find too! Maybe only needs oil??
What kinds of sounds did you hear coming from the P.U before this happened?

Think Jim may be on to something with the dremel idea! You have the gulmite wrench don't you?