"Wow. It's going to be better than new!"
LOL! We'll have to wait and see, but I sure hope you're right.
LOL! We'll have to wait and see, but I sure hope you're right.
My Early Maytag A806 Rework Progress
- Thread starter d-jones
- Start date
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Anyone that's been following this thread is aware that progress has been blocked by a stuck agitator. I was unaware of the metal drive block issue until Dan mentioned it, and since then I've been trying to think of some way to remove the agitator that doesn't involve its destruction. John made an extremely generous offer of one he has if I should end up trashing mine, but I'm determined to make a serious attempt at removing it undamaged before I take him up on it. To that end I've come up with this idea seen below. I can't simply pull up from the bottom flange as it will just flex until it buckles or breaks. That leaves the barrel. Its inner diameter is almost exactly three inches, so I'm thinking when a three inch diameter rubber expansion plug is tightened up inside the barrel it should expand enough to get a really good grip on it. When coupled with a slide hammer I might then be able to tap it loose. That way the load applied by the hammer will transfer directly to the drive block with little room for flex. Dan's idea of drilling a hole in the top center to add some penetrating oil seems pretty solid to me, so if it still won't let go I may do that as well to help things along. Unfortunately I'm heading out of town for a couple weeks and won't be able to try this out until I get back. In the mean time, maybe Dan is willing to try it out on his and let us know how it goes.
I wish I took a picture of it 16 years ago, but I threaded clothes line up and down through the middle of the agitator, with the lint filter removed, and attached the web to the slide hammer. I don't think your expanding plug it going to do it.
I don't think your expanding plug it going to do it.
You may prove right, but I'm going to try it anyways. In the aircraft industry we use expanding rubber plugs to block off the wing tank vents so that we can pressurize the tank and perform leak checks. Once installed and tightened up so that the rubber is properly expanded you couldn't pull the darn things out if your life depended on it, so I'm still hopeful. Whether it works or fails I'll post the results here. The problem in this case is I'm not up against a hardened rubber stop ring, it's a rusted metal drive block that's causing the trouble, so I'm concerned about wrapping anything around the thin support flanges that could damage them.
You may prove right, but I'm going to try it anyways. In the aircraft industry we use expanding rubber plugs to block off the wing tank vents so that we can pressurize the tank and perform leak checks. Once installed and tightened up so that the rubber is properly expanded you couldn't pull the darn things out if your life depended on it, so I'm still hopeful. Whether it works or fails I'll post the results here. The problem in this case is I'm not up against a hardened rubber stop ring, it's a rusted metal drive block that's causing the trouble, so I'm concerned about wrapping anything around the thin support flanges that could damage them.
Removing A Stuck MT Agitator
I am going to bet your expanding rubber device will work, I would also consider Dans idea of drilling a small hole and putting penetrating oil in, we have done that trick and it has worked.
John L.
I am going to bet your expanding rubber device will work, I would also consider Dans idea of drilling a small hole and putting penetrating oil in, we have done that trick and it has worked.
John L.
Thanks, John!
Considering how much experience you have working on these things, that's encouraging.
Considering how much experience you have working on these things, that's encouraging.
Not that I am a betting man, but if I were to throw a wager out, regardless of the pulling method, my best bet would say that the agitator would pull up off the spline leaving that drat thing on the transmission shaft, rather than it coming off intact with the spline remaining in the agitator.
I've encountered this many times, albeit more on the Bakelite agitators than the poly, but I too have pulled an early poly agitator right off the spline. And when that happens it's time to get the Dremel out and often the shaft is toast. The rust bond between the pot metal spline and the steel shaft is almost always too strong to slip it off.
The methods of folks using massive amounts of heat/rope/etc. seem to be more successful on the integral spline agitators (made after Nov 1967).
Good luck to you in your quest! The restoration efforts you've put into this machine have been a flawless example of perfection.
Ben
I've encountered this many times, albeit more on the Bakelite agitators than the poly, but I too have pulled an early poly agitator right off the spline. And when that happens it's time to get the Dremel out and often the shaft is toast. The rust bond between the pot metal spline and the steel shaft is almost always too strong to slip it off.
The methods of folks using massive amounts of heat/rope/etc. seem to be more successful on the integral spline agitators (made after Nov 1967).
Good luck to you in your quest! The restoration efforts you've put into this machine have been a flawless example of perfection.
Ben
I salvaged a bakelite agitator off a 1964 A500 that hadnt been off in decades by drilling a hole in the center after removing the lint filter and soaking it a few days with Kroil. It gave me a fight but I was still able to wiggle it off with my hands. I J B Welded the hole after.
Good news and bad news
The good news is the expandable plug worked like a champ. The first photo shows my complete set up. For the slide hammer I used a rather large and heavy cast socket. Unfortunately, as I tightened up the expanding plug I went too far and blew out the the plastic barrel towards the top where I initially placed it. The damage is seen in the last photo. Trust me when I say this made me feel like an absolute blithering idiot. I believe there are adhesives specifically made for this type of plastic. If so I'll try to repair it. The break is pretty clean and closes up really tight, so I'm hopeful. It's also in an area that's under no stress during use so hopefully once a repair is made it'll last.
Photo 2 - The plug is installed down towards the bottom of the barrel (where it should have been in the first place) and nicely snugged up. Learn from my mistake and don't over tighten. As the rubber plug expands the outward pressure it exerts can be enormous.
Photo 3 - The rest of the assembly is attached. At this point about a half dozen medium blows with the socket popped the agitator off clean. In fact, once it was correctly placed and installed this otherwise immovable agitator was easily removed. This method is well worth considering for anyone else dealing with this problem as long as you don't over tighten the darn plug.
Photo 4 - As for the agitator shaft, I think many of us have seen far worse posted on this site. Now I can finally get on with the rest of the overhaul.
Photo 5 - The damage. Again, I'm really embarrassed by this totally preventable situation. I should have been more cautious as I tightened up that plug.
The good news is the expandable plug worked like a champ. The first photo shows my complete set up. For the slide hammer I used a rather large and heavy cast socket. Unfortunately, as I tightened up the expanding plug I went too far and blew out the the plastic barrel towards the top where I initially placed it. The damage is seen in the last photo. Trust me when I say this made me feel like an absolute blithering idiot. I believe there are adhesives specifically made for this type of plastic. If so I'll try to repair it. The break is pretty clean and closes up really tight, so I'm hopeful. It's also in an area that's under no stress during use so hopefully once a repair is made it'll last.
Photo 2 - The plug is installed down towards the bottom of the barrel (where it should have been in the first place) and nicely snugged up. Learn from my mistake and don't over tighten. As the rubber plug expands the outward pressure it exerts can be enormous.
Photo 3 - The rest of the assembly is attached. At this point about a half dozen medium blows with the socket popped the agitator off clean. In fact, once it was correctly placed and installed this otherwise immovable agitator was easily removed. This method is well worth considering for anyone else dealing with this problem as long as you don't over tighten the darn plug.
Photo 4 - As for the agitator shaft, I think many of us have seen far worse posted on this site. Now I can finally get on with the rest of the overhaul.
Photo 5 - The damage. Again, I'm really embarrassed by this totally preventable situation. I should have been more cautious as I tightened up that plug.
Outside of crack in the barrel I'm so glad the expandable plug worked AND pulled the spline off the shaft! With my head hanging in shame I'm ready to pay out for the bet 
The agitator shaft doesn't look too bad. Crossing fingers the seal surface is still nice and smooth.
Ben
The agitator shaft doesn't look too bad. Crossing fingers the seal surface is still nice and smooth.
Ben
The nut wouldn't budge yesterday,
So I soaked it in Mouse Milk overnight. (photo 1) This morning it started moving with the second tap of the hammer and came off easily.
Photo 2 - The inside surface of the outer tub has a little bit of rust to deal with, but is in pretty good shape overall, especially when one considers the age of this machine.
Photo 3 - Ready for a good cleaning. I plan to leave the outer tub installed the way you see it until I finish cleaning it up. The little wheeled platform makes moving it around a breeze.
Photo 4 - Initial cleaning of the outer tub inner surface completed. Now the rust is clearly visible. It's being treated with a rust remover now. We'll have to wait and see how that goes.
Ben - I was pleasantly surprised by how well and easily that expandable plug and slide hammer idea worked as well, so no payout is necessary, LOL. Hopefully the idea will prove useful to others as well.
[this post was last edited: 11/5/2021-14:01]
So I soaked it in Mouse Milk overnight. (photo 1) This morning it started moving with the second tap of the hammer and came off easily.
Photo 2 - The inside surface of the outer tub has a little bit of rust to deal with, but is in pretty good shape overall, especially when one considers the age of this machine.
Photo 3 - Ready for a good cleaning. I plan to leave the outer tub installed the way you see it until I finish cleaning it up. The little wheeled platform makes moving it around a breeze.
Photo 4 - Initial cleaning of the outer tub inner surface completed. Now the rust is clearly visible. It's being treated with a rust remover now. We'll have to wait and see how that goes.
Ben - I was pleasantly surprised by how well and easily that expandable plug and slide hammer idea worked as well, so no payout is necessary, LOL. Hopefully the idea will prove useful to others as well.
[this post was last edited: 11/5/2021-14:01]
I wonder if really cleaning those splines down shiny and brushing a thin coat of zinc chromate primer would keep rust and pitting at bay a while?
John
I have a new replacement for that shaft, but I won't use it unless the original looks bad. So far it looks decent and might get by with new zinc plating. We'll see how it goes when I get it apart a little further.
I have a new replacement for that shaft, but I won't use it unless the original looks bad. So far it looks decent and might get by with new zinc plating. We'll see how it goes when I get it apart a little further.
Will you send it out for plating or is it something you can do yourself with some basic stuff and a Youtube vid?
I’ve been considering home plating set ups like those sold by Caswell, but don’t have one yet. I’ve done a fair amount of plating at the aircraft service centers I’ve worked at, so I’m familiar with the process, but if this part is the only thing to plate it’s more cost effective to send it out.
A bit more progress to report.
Photo 1. With the transmission now finally separated from the tub, I made this little stand to hold it upright so I could work on it.
Photo 2. It took some effort, but the transmission halves were separated giving me my first look at the inner workings. The oil was really thick and sticky, so I placed the lower half in a large funnel atop a waste oil drum and let it sit for several hours to drain.
Photo 3. The oil is drained and it’s had an initial cleaning. The condition of the nylon gear surprised me. It’s covered in cracks and looks as though it was on the verge of failing.
Photo 4. A better view of the nylon gear. Based on this I’m now a bit concerned about the nylon gears in my other machines. Can anyone tell me if this cracking is unusual or rare?
Photo 5. Disassembled and cleaned up. I’m waiting for a few more parts to arrive so I can put it all back together.
Photo 1. With the transmission now finally separated from the tub, I made this little stand to hold it upright so I could work on it.
Photo 2. It took some effort, but the transmission halves were separated giving me my first look at the inner workings. The oil was really thick and sticky, so I placed the lower half in a large funnel atop a waste oil drum and let it sit for several hours to drain.
Photo 3. The oil is drained and it’s had an initial cleaning. The condition of the nylon gear surprised me. It’s covered in cracks and looks as though it was on the verge of failing.
Photo 4. A better view of the nylon gear. Based on this I’m now a bit concerned about the nylon gears in my other machines. Can anyone tell me if this cracking is unusual or rare?
Photo 5. Disassembled and cleaned up. I’m waiting for a few more parts to arrive so I can put it all back together.
Can anyone tell me if this cracking is unusual or rare?
For its age, no. I usually see this with transmissions where the top shaft/bearings are nearly or completely seized up. This is why I always strongly recommended replacing them back in the day, especially since they were available and cheap back then. Hard to locate a new one these days.
How is the upper shaft and bearings in your transmission?
For its age, no. I usually see this with transmissions where the top shaft/bearings are nearly or completely seized up. This is why I always strongly recommended replacing them back in the day, especially since they were available and cheap back then. Hard to locate a new one these days.
How is the upper shaft and bearings in your transmission?
Dan
Now that all the old sticky oil has been removed it rotates rather freely with no slop. At least it seems that way to me. Granted, I have no prior experience with these things so nothing to compare it to. I still haven’t removed the agitator shaft from the upper half of the transmission, so I can’t comment on the physical condition of those bearings either.
Now that all the old sticky oil has been removed it rotates rather freely with no slop. At least it seems that way to me. Granted, I have no prior experience with these things so nothing to compare it to. I still haven’t removed the agitator shaft from the upper half of the transmission, so I can’t comment on the physical condition of those bearings either.
MT Transmission Rebuild
Good progress David, Its looks like there was some water in this transmission from the rust on top of the gears, it would be ideal to find a better top half for this transmission rebuild to find one that never had any water in the agitate shaft area.
It is interesting that these nylon pinion gears are failing with time, back in time even through the 80s we never saw one of these gears fail, but all things [ especially plastic ] will fail in time and while all appliance makers have troubles with plastic and rubber parts deteriorating Maytag was particularly bad when it came to their quality of plastics and rubber parts.
John L.
Good progress David, Its looks like there was some water in this transmission from the rust on top of the gears, it would be ideal to find a better top half for this transmission rebuild to find one that never had any water in the agitate shaft area.
It is interesting that these nylon pinion gears are failing with time, back in time even through the 80s we never saw one of these gears fail, but all things [ especially plastic ] will fail in time and while all appliance makers have troubles with plastic and rubber parts deteriorating Maytag was particularly bad when it came to their quality of plastics and rubber parts.
John L.
>> Photo 4. A better view of the nylon gear. Based on this I’m now a bit concerned about the nylon gears in my other machines.
If it helps, I would think that the nylon gear should cause limited damage if it failed? There wouldn't be any metal debris floating around. If the nylon gear put up a fight (say a tooth sheared but the hub remained intact and pinned to the splines), it's at worst going to lock up when the comparatively soft nylon bits lodge between other gears or what is left of the nylon pinion. If it failed completely (gear split away from the splines, or teeth sheared and were ejected), it could end up just free-spinning.
I'm not saying there is no risk - just that it may not be worth worrying about (aka, going through the whole disassembly/replacement process) if the transmission is otherwise working fine.
This is all just speculation of course - it's hard to predict failure modes for long-life parts that don't fail often...
If it helps, I would think that the nylon gear should cause limited damage if it failed? There wouldn't be any metal debris floating around. If the nylon gear put up a fight (say a tooth sheared but the hub remained intact and pinned to the splines), it's at worst going to lock up when the comparatively soft nylon bits lodge between other gears or what is left of the nylon pinion. If it failed completely (gear split away from the splines, or teeth sheared and were ejected), it could end up just free-spinning.
I'm not saying there is no risk - just that it may not be worth worrying about (aka, going through the whole disassembly/replacement process) if the transmission is otherwise working fine.
This is all just speculation of course - it's hard to predict failure modes for long-life parts that don't fail often...
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