My First Neptune Adventure-- The Smelly Washer
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This is front panel removed, dispenser door removed, top raised out of the way and supported. You can see the latch assembly which will be removed next with two screws and the wiring to the heater assembly. You can also see the drain tube assembly for the boot.
Here is where the issue begins to be revealed. After removing the latch, tub cover clips and wiring and pulling the tub cover here we see a crust that has formed in the areas where the water line is. The water heater is coated with this completely and the crust is rock hard on the metal surfaces. It can however be scraped off the plastic surface. You will see some residual amounts of lint in the bristle seal and in small clumps in various areas.
And now the stainless spinner basket removed. Note the very dry area above the water line and normal splash areas as opposed to the dark not quite dry areas below. This crust is thin but very hard. I was able to scrape most of it out of the plastic outer tub but it was stuck tough to the spider.
So in wrapping up this task I cleaned off all the crust that I was able to scrape from the plastic outer tub, the front tub cover, sump area, removed all debris and lint and cleaned the bristle seal. I could not adequately remove the sediment from the heater so I replaced the heater and its sensor with a spare I have here. But I plan to soak the original one to dissolve the sediment later and restore it as they are 120.00 for a new one and Ill save it for spare.
I have successfully eliminated slimey scum and stinky smelly washer over the past 6 years but now that I see this I wonder what I could do to prevent or reduce this hard sediment? Perhaps adding a water softner? Or just going back to using STPP to soften the water? I wish now that I hadnt waited 5+ years. I wish I had taken it apart after the 2 years I used STPP with Persil powder to have a comparison to now.
I questioned both my wife and daughter and they state they only use 1 scoop of HE detergent per load so I dont think it its overdosing that caused this. It would appear to be primarily hard water.
What do you think?
I know someone earlier in this thread suggested that all that moldy soap scum in my 4000 washer may have preserved the spider and internals from corrosion. There may be something to that! But of course the negatives of the odors that were present in that machine were obvious not to mention health hazards.
Im happy to have no more mold or smelly washer but I sure would like to know how to keep this from forming any worse. I am already making plans to purchase a new stainless drum when the major rebuild happens in another 5 years. I also have a couple spare spiders so that is not a problem.
But I would also like to do some preventative maintenance along the way.
I have successfully eliminated slimey scum and stinky smelly washer over the past 6 years but now that I see this I wonder what I could do to prevent or reduce this hard sediment? Perhaps adding a water softner? Or just going back to using STPP to soften the water? I wish now that I hadnt waited 5+ years. I wish I had taken it apart after the 2 years I used STPP with Persil powder to have a comparison to now.
I questioned both my wife and daughter and they state they only use 1 scoop of HE detergent per load so I dont think it its overdosing that caused this. It would appear to be primarily hard water.
What do you think?
I know someone earlier in this thread suggested that all that moldy soap scum in my 4000 washer may have preserved the spider and internals from corrosion. There may be something to that! But of course the negatives of the odors that were present in that machine were obvious not to mention health hazards.
Im happy to have no more mold or smelly washer but I sure would like to know how to keep this from forming any worse. I am already making plans to purchase a new stainless drum when the major rebuild happens in another 5 years. I also have a couple spare spiders so that is not a problem.
But I would also like to do some preventative maintenance along the way.
Current powder formulations are dense, compact
and so you use a much smaller dose,yes, you are using much less water. However powders unlike liquids depend heavily on buffering agents to soften the water so the surfactant can dissolve into the water and go to work. If the balance between hardness and softness is not just right then hard water will form solids with the builder/softener and also the surfactant used.
It is important to keep the water softened throughout the wash.
Also all soils in laundry drive up the acidity of the wash water, soils are acidic by nature. Clearly a regular dose of TIDE HE powder in your water is not enough to keep the wash liquor alkaline through the whole wash cycle. Since you have such hard water you need a booster in there. You can add STPP like you say but you can also add "washing soda" to keep the alkalinity up and plain old washing soda is a lot cheaper and better for the enviroment.
That is why I am formulating "SPLASH" to have a powerful, compact alkaline builder for hard water situations such as these.
In one recent batch I put too much builder in and got cotton clothes that came out of my Neptune looking like they had been buffed upagainst a sand wheel! So you can have too much alkalinity as well as too much acid. Alkalinity of around 11-14 is a good zone to be in for wash water.
Great Job on the Neptune, I love my 10 year old baby, but I also love my American made Speed Queen too!
and so you use a much smaller dose,yes, you are using much less water. However powders unlike liquids depend heavily on buffering agents to soften the water so the surfactant can dissolve into the water and go to work. If the balance between hardness and softness is not just right then hard water will form solids with the builder/softener and also the surfactant used.
It is important to keep the water softened throughout the wash.
Also all soils in laundry drive up the acidity of the wash water, soils are acidic by nature. Clearly a regular dose of TIDE HE powder in your water is not enough to keep the wash liquor alkaline through the whole wash cycle. Since you have such hard water you need a booster in there. You can add STPP like you say but you can also add "washing soda" to keep the alkalinity up and plain old washing soda is a lot cheaper and better for the enviroment.
That is why I am formulating "SPLASH" to have a powerful, compact alkaline builder for hard water situations such as these.
In one recent batch I put too much builder in and got cotton clothes that came out of my Neptune looking like they had been buffed upagainst a sand wheel! So you can have too much alkalinity as well as too much acid. Alkalinity of around 11-14 is a good zone to be in for wash water.
Great Job on the Neptune, I love my 10 year old baby, but I also love my American made Speed Queen too!
PS Fordtech
I bet if you soak the tub in CLR it should come clean again. Let us know how you make out!
I bet if you soak the tub in CLR it should come clean again. Let us know how you make out!
hoover1100
Well-known member
Interesting
It certainly seems that your detergent dosen't contain water softening agents, or not enough. Either that or not enough is being used.
I know many Americans on here recommend adding phosphates to detergent to soften water.
Our detergents do not contain phosphates anymore, but this has made no difference at all to their cleaning power or the way they look after machine parts. If you use Persil or something like that, despite not having phosphates, you won't need to add any.
So yeah, I guess the solution would be American detergent+phospate, or a European detergent.
Still can't work out why the removal of phospahtes has made no difference at all to our detergents, but seems to have had a huge effect on those accross the pond. Bizarre!
Matt
It certainly seems that your detergent dosen't contain water softening agents, or not enough. Either that or not enough is being used.
I know many Americans on here recommend adding phosphates to detergent to soften water.
Our detergents do not contain phosphates anymore, but this has made no difference at all to their cleaning power or the way they look after machine parts. If you use Persil or something like that, despite not having phosphates, you won't need to add any.
So yeah, I guess the solution would be American detergent+phospate, or a European detergent.
Still can't work out why the removal of phospahtes has made no difference at all to our detergents, but seems to have had a huge effect on those accross the pond. Bizarre!
Matt
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
In the USA Phosphates were banned in home laundry detergent eons ago; I think 1993. Today the quest is for drop it from dishwasher soap too.
In the Southwest USA gambit is to buy the washing machine soap in Mexico; since they have laxer standards.
In the Southwest USA gambit is to buy the washing machine soap in Mexico; since they have laxer standards.
hoover1100
Well-known member
3beltwesty
I know, same here, I just don't understand why removal of phosphates has had a negative affect on the performance of U.S. detergents, yet the removal of phosphates has made no differece to detergent performance over here.
Matt
I know, same here, I just don't understand why removal of phosphates has had a negative affect on the performance of U.S. detergents, yet the removal of phosphates has made no differece to detergent performance over here.
Matt
I think it is a lot more than just the phosphates. Lots of changes in environmental standards, the type machines we used when phosphates were legal, the difference in heater temperatures onboard from europe and their smaller high speed machines and water conditions,treatments etc.
Jetcone I am not sure how much good CLR would do on the spinner. I finally finished working over the heater element and it took about an hour and a half of scraping and a couple hours of soaking in CLR with scraping between soaks and wire brushing.
Jetcone I am not sure how much good CLR would do on the spinner. I finally finished working over the heater element and it took about an hour and a half of scraping and a couple hours of soaking in CLR with scraping between soaks and wire brushing.
Hard Water
I'm looking to purchase a Scalewatcher soon since I have extremely hard water too. It uses electronic frequencies to prevent magnesium and calcium from bonding, thus preventing build-up. Long term use actually descales hard water deposits overtime.
http://www.scalewatcher.com/en/
I'm looking to purchase a Scalewatcher soon since I have extremely hard water too. It uses electronic frequencies to prevent magnesium and calcium from bonding, thus preventing build-up. Long term use actually descales hard water deposits overtime.
http://www.scalewatcher.com/en/
Matt to answer your question
about the phosphates gone from EU detergents, what they did in EU is to replace them with zeolites to soften and added a chemical compound ( can't think of what it is right now) to protect machine parts from becoming coated. I'll have to dig out my Henkel formulation book from Germany and look it up, it has a loooonnnnngg name.
Thats why you are seeing good results in the new phosphate free detergents.
Fordtech that looks like a clean heater element to me, there was one other descaler I have used that was stronger than CLR, can't think of it right now , if I remember I'll put it up. I think it came in a yellow bottle?? Too much coffee today.
about the phosphates gone from EU detergents, what they did in EU is to replace them with zeolites to soften and added a chemical compound ( can't think of what it is right now) to protect machine parts from becoming coated. I'll have to dig out my Henkel formulation book from Germany and look it up, it has a loooonnnnngg name.
Thats why you are seeing good results in the new phosphate free detergents.
Fordtech that looks like a clean heater element to me, there was one other descaler I have used that was stronger than CLR, can't think of it right now , if I remember I'll put it up. I think it came in a yellow bottle?? Too much coffee today.
mrb627
Well-known member
Phosphates
I would be willing to bet that part of the reason the removal of phosphates has effected cleaning performance in the States is that the wash phase of our machines is kept short and sweet. In the UK, washing goes on and on which is where enzymes will perform their best. Long wash cycles like that in the States will never prevail unless the machine can do three load of clothes at one time, LOL! Americans are just not gonna do laundry everyday, if they can help it.
Malcolm
I would be willing to bet that part of the reason the removal of phosphates has effected cleaning performance in the States is that the wash phase of our machines is kept short and sweet. In the UK, washing goes on and on which is where enzymes will perform their best. Long wash cycles like that in the States will never prevail unless the machine can do three load of clothes at one time, LOL! Americans are just not gonna do laundry everyday, if they can help it.
Malcolm
hoover1100
Well-known member
Jetcone (Jon)
Thanks! I wasn't sure about that, but it makes sense now.
Still don't understand why zeolites and said chemical compund were not added to U.S. detergents when phosphates were dropped, seems a bit odd!
On the plus side, at least theres no signs of mould or detergent residue in your machine Fordtech!
Matt
Thanks! I wasn't sure about that, but it makes sense now.
Still don't understand why zeolites and said chemical compund were not added to U.S. detergents when phosphates were dropped, seems a bit odd!
On the plus side, at least theres no signs of mould or detergent residue in your machine Fordtech!
Matt
Great points Jetcone! If you think of that other cleaner LMK please.
LOL Malcolm, you know we Americans couldnt take 2 hour wash times!
Matt, you've got that right! No mold or detergent buildup is great after 5+ years in that machine!
LOL Malcolm, you know we Americans couldnt take 2 hour wash times!
Matt, you've got that right! No mold or detergent buildup is great after 5+ years in that machine!
