You can give the EZ out a try, I've tried it several times myself and have never been successful with that device. That only thing that has consistently worked for me has been the slow process of careful drilling and pounding.
My next project, a WO-65 Unimatic!
- Thread starter joelippard
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I once broke off an E-Z Out while trying to remove a broken exhaust manifold bolt on a 1977 Pontiac 400 head. It is almost impossible to drill out an EZ Out as they are made of black carbide steel and I now avoid them like the plague.
Greg's tip (a fantastic idea, BTW!) sounds like a great idea. If the wax doesn't work, it sounds like you are comfortable drilling it out.
Ben
Greg's tip (a fantastic idea, BTW!) sounds like a great idea. If the wax doesn't work, it sounds like you are comfortable drilling it out.
Ben
Today's Update
I got that @#$! screw drilled out, the candle and heat method didn't stand a chance against this thing. That screw was literally welded with rust inside the shaft. I had a few screws that I picked up today that I thought may work to help finish cleaning the hole out but they quickly sacrificed their threads. It seems I may need to run a self tapping screw up in there first or a thread tap.
In other news I removed the impeller seal and cleaned it up. I've looked it over thoroughly twice and can't see anything wrong with it. Here are some pictures of it so you guys can give me opinions of it. Thanks!
I got that @#$! screw drilled out, the candle and heat method didn't stand a chance against this thing. That screw was literally welded with rust inside the shaft. I had a few screws that I picked up today that I thought may work to help finish cleaning the hole out but they quickly sacrificed their threads. It seems I may need to run a self tapping screw up in there first or a thread tap.
In other news I removed the impeller seal and cleaned it up. I've looked it over thoroughly twice and can't see anything wrong with it. Here are some pictures of it so you guys can give me opinions of it. Thanks!
Good job! The seal bellows looks fine to me - seal it in place on the impeller, then when you get the screw replacement worked out, you're washing with Live Water Action again!
Joe that is just great, I agree with Greg, the bellows seal does like good, I don't see any rips. Do put some silicone down in the channel of the impeller where the rubber bellows sits and do turn over the carbon face part of the seal.
If you have to re-tap the threads be sure to use a fine thread, this screw needs to be extremely tight, otherwise the fan will rattle.
If you have to re-tap the threads be sure to use a fine thread, this screw needs to be extremely tight, otherwise the fan will rattle.
Thanks again guys
for checking up on me. I need it right now... I admit I had some nerves going when I was drilling that old screw out. I remember thinking I was going to need a drink afterward!
for checking up on me. I need it right now... I admit I had some nerves going when I was drilling that old screw out. I remember thinking I was going to need a drink afterward!
Today
Picked up some self cutting screws at ACE today of the appropriate size. Got one up in there and wouldn't you know, it broke off too! It seems I need better drill bits also so I am finished for today -- off to dinner then by Home Depot for supplies. I'm really ready to finish this, I have everything else on the bottom end ready to go back together.
More questions. Is there any benefit gained by putting a felt washer on each side of that fan upon re-assembly? Typically I have used hi-temp gasket sealer on pumps, is that the correct method for a Unimatic?
I'm still concerned about oil. I drained 15 oz out and put that amount back, but the manual states a capacity of 23-25? What should I do?
Picked up some self cutting screws at ACE today of the appropriate size. Got one up in there and wouldn't you know, it broke off too! It seems I need better drill bits also so I am finished for today -- off to dinner then by Home Depot for supplies. I'm really ready to finish this, I have everything else on the bottom end ready to go back together.
More questions. Is there any benefit gained by putting a felt washer on each side of that fan upon re-assembly? Typically I have used hi-temp gasket sealer on pumps, is that the correct method for a Unimatic?
I'm still concerned about oil. I drained 15 oz out and put that amount back, but the manual states a capacity of 23-25? What should I do?
I would try seating the pump and fan assembly as originally designed first, see if that works, it should if you get the screw issue resolved. I would think felt washers would tend to disintegrate over time, leaving you right back where you are now.
The mechanism should be charged with 28 ounces of oil, air compressor oil works best. Sorry we didn't answer that before, we had our heads in the pump!
Keep us posted, persistence will pay off.
The mechanism should be charged with 28 ounces of oil, air compressor oil works best. Sorry we didn't answer that before, we had our heads in the pump!
Keep us posted, persistence will pay off.
Lunchtime update!
Here is a shout out to Dewalt titanium drill bits -- bought a set last night that they sliced up that broken cut screw like warm butter. Followed that up with carefully working in a Irwin 1/4 in. tap and I'm happy to announce that a 1/4 in. screw went all the way up succesfully and tightened solidly. Now on to some re-assembly this afternoon.
I'm planning to use medium strength threadlocker, do you guys think that's sufficent?
Here is a shout out to Dewalt titanium drill bits -- bought a set last night that they sliced up that broken cut screw like warm butter. Followed that up with carefully working in a Irwin 1/4 in. tap and I'm happy to announce that a 1/4 in. screw went all the way up succesfully and tightened solidly. Now on to some re-assembly this afternoon.
I'm planning to use medium strength threadlocker, do you guys think that's sufficent?
More Progress
Fan, pump assembly and snubber plate/gasket are all back together now and the gasket sealer is drying
Off to get new hose material... Now we're getting somewhere.
Fan, pump assembly and snubber plate/gasket are all back together now and the gasket sealer is drying
Off to get new hose material... Now we're getting somewhere.
toploader55
Well-known member
Excellent !!!
Nothing like a Unimatic.
Can't beat the Drama. Eddie.
Nothing like a Unimatic.
Can't beat the Drama. Eddie.
Hey, good to hear you are making progress. One hose that can be frustrating is the pump outlet hose. I ended up finding a heater hose from Advanced Auto that fits the bill perfectly.
IIRC, the 303775 is their internal stock number for the hose, not a cross reference hose. The one of the right is the one I cut too much off.
The second from the right was cut correctly.
Crossing my fingers for a leak free first test!
Ben
IIRC, the 303775 is their internal stock number for the hose, not a cross reference hose. The one of the right is the one I cut too much off.
The second from the right was cut correctly.Crossing my fingers for a leak free first test!
Ben
What Joy!
Got everything clean, all put back together and it wouldn't run. Something is binding in the pump -- now I get to take all that stuff back off again and find out what's wrong
Got everything clean, all put back together and it wouldn't run. Something is binding in the pump -- now I get to take all that stuff back off again and find out what's wrong
I'm sorry Joe, I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me with every single brand of washer out there. Especially if I've had to retro-fit something.
Can you turn the fan with you finger manually (machine unplugged of course)?
Can you turn the fan with you finger manually (machine unplugged of course)?
Nope, you can't turn the fan with your finger but you can turn the tub in both directions and can hear the solenoid click when you turn it, and in one direction the pulsator will move up and down so that tells me the transmission is ok. Got to be something too tight in that pump assembly
Out of sheer curiosity did you try to run the motor? I have run the motor with the machine turned on its side to test it for a few seconds. You might try this as you are putting it back together before you put the bottom plate back on.
Be sure to support the mechanism with the machine turned on its side with a 2 x 4 piece of wood or a small box or some thing so it doesn't just hang there as you working on it.
Be sure to support the mechanism with the machine turned on its side with a 2 x 4 piece of wood or a small box or some thing so it doesn't just hang there as you working on it.
By the way, thank you again Robert for checking on me. I did not try to turn it on while it was on it's side, only after everything was fully assembled. I've been putting a paint can under the mechanism to keep it supported.
I can't think there would have been anything about changing the oil that would have caused an issue, or installing new hoses.
When I re installed the pump I used the same type screw, with a countersink style head except that the new screw is an allen head, rather than a flat head like the original. I made sure that I got everything good and tight (I guess too tight). I lubed the inner pump impeller seal and made sure the carbon disc seated correctly, then made my outer cork gasket and sealed it with hi-temp gasket sealer that I had on hand, also tightened the plate screws very tight. It will be interesting to disect the issue but I think I may need to take a day or two away from it. I've been at it hard as I can go every evening so this evening I felt like I'd had a punch in the gut. But in the end, I will win
I can't think there would have been anything about changing the oil that would have caused an issue, or installing new hoses.
When I re installed the pump I used the same type screw, with a countersink style head except that the new screw is an allen head, rather than a flat head like the original. I made sure that I got everything good and tight (I guess too tight). I lubed the inner pump impeller seal and made sure the carbon disc seated correctly, then made my outer cork gasket and sealed it with hi-temp gasket sealer that I had on hand, also tightened the plate screws very tight. It will be interesting to disect the issue but I think I may need to take a day or two away from it. I've been at it hard as I can go every evening so this evening I felt like I'd had a punch in the gut. But in the end, I will win
You will win, sometimes the bottom plate of pump is up touching the impeller, you might need to add a couple of layers of cork gasket to move it down slightly. Try taking the pump bottom off first and seeing if that frees it up, it just might so, it could be an easy fix.
Do take a few days off first, I know how frustrating it can be having to take the same thing apart over and over again until you get it right.
Do take a few days off first, I know how frustrating it can be having to take the same thing apart over and over again until you get it right.
I've cooled off
So I went inspecting today. Here is what I found. The gasket that I cut had expanded with the sealer and locked against the bottom of the impeller. I had everything put together really tight. I'm not sure how tight things are supposed to be???
I'm assuming that I put the carbon disc back on the seal correctly with the knotches being aligned as shown in the picture below. Two thinga I notice when I put the impeller back on and tighten it down good is that you simply cannot get it tight enough to tighten up the fan. I'm attaching some pics of the fan where it slides on the shaft, please tell me how it looks, is it normal for it to fit up on there so loosely?
So I went inspecting today. Here is what I found. The gasket that I cut had expanded with the sealer and locked against the bottom of the impeller. I had everything put together really tight. I'm not sure how tight things are supposed to be???
I'm assuming that I put the carbon disc back on the seal correctly with the knotches being aligned as shown in the picture below. Two thinga I notice when I put the impeller back on and tighten it down good is that you simply cannot get it tight enough to tighten up the fan. I'm attaching some pics of the fan where it slides on the shaft, please tell me how it looks, is it normal for it to fit up on there so loosely?
It sounds to me like the notches were not lined up Joe, you are lucky the notches didn't break.
When I install the pump I put the impeller with the seal in place into the housing, then holding the assembly I apply inward pressure on the impeller, you should feel the impeller move in and out slightly if the notches are properly lined up when you do this. Then holding the parts together with the impeller pushed in I place it on the motor rotor and hold it until I have the impeller screw all the way down. I let go and then really tighten it good.
Its not normal for the fan to be loose at all, it should be very tight against the top of the impeller where the impeller sticks out of the pump.
When I install the pump I put the impeller with the seal in place into the housing, then holding the assembly I apply inward pressure on the impeller, you should feel the impeller move in and out slightly if the notches are properly lined up when you do this. Then holding the parts together with the impeller pushed in I place it on the motor rotor and hold it until I have the impeller screw all the way down. I let go and then really tighten it good.
Its not normal for the fan to be loose at all, it should be very tight against the top of the impeller where the impeller sticks out of the pump.
LOOSE UNIMATIC MOTOR COOLING FAN
Joe the fan blade you pictured looks really worn when I compare it to a new one, it may be best to replace the fan. If you don't have one Email me I have several new ones that I hope I don't need for any of the three UMs that we have.
Joe the fan blade you pictured looks really worn when I compare it to a new one, it may be best to replace the fan. If you don't have one Email me I have several new ones that I hope I don't need for any of the three UMs that we have.
Ok
That tells me that I did have the pump impeller on correctly because I did have the carbon disc falling into the knotches on the impeller. I did not install it however in the way you told me you do Robert. I had the upper portion of the pump already on the motor, holding it on with one of the plate screws.
John, I sent you a message, I'm wondering if that fan has succumbed to rust
That tells me that I did have the pump impeller on correctly because I did have the carbon disc falling into the knotches on the impeller. I did not install it however in the way you told me you do Robert. I had the upper portion of the pump already on the motor, holding it on with one of the plate screws.
John, I sent you a message, I'm wondering if that fan has succumbed to rust
More Questions
I did a little sub-assembly this evening, and have closely reviewed the attached picture from the Unimatic repair manual. When I install the pump impeller, press the assembly into place and tighten down the impeller screw the pump impeller scrapes against the pump housing on the back side. The machine did this before I ever started working on it, and that along with the loose fan made a terrible sound. My question is as I look at this drawing from the manual it appears that there is supposed to be some sort of washer that goes between the face of the carbon disc (seal) and the impeller housing -- in the photo it references to it as water pump seal washer. There was no such part (if there is an additional part) in place when I dis-assembled the pump. Is there in fact a special washer that goes between these two parts? This could attribute to the scraping I assume...
I did a little sub-assembly this evening, and have closely reviewed the attached picture from the Unimatic repair manual. When I install the pump impeller, press the assembly into place and tighten down the impeller screw the pump impeller scrapes against the pump housing on the back side. The machine did this before I ever started working on it, and that along with the loose fan made a terrible sound. My question is as I look at this drawing from the manual it appears that there is supposed to be some sort of washer that goes between the face of the carbon disc (seal) and the impeller housing -- in the photo it references to it as water pump seal washer. There was no such part (if there is an additional part) in place when I dis-assembled the pump. Is there in fact a special washer that goes between these two parts? This could attribute to the scraping I assume...
Is there in fact a special washer that goes between these two parts?
Absolutely there is a bronze washer, probably 1/8" thick and a rubber gasket that it sits on. The rubber gasket should be replaced with silicone because of the age of the pump housing. Are you sure there was no bronze washer anywhere, maybe someone repaired the pump years ago and forgot to reinstall the bronze washer?
Still that doesn't explain why the fan would be tight, I would think it would be even tighter without that washer there.
Absolutely there is a bronze washer, probably 1/8" thick and a rubber gasket that it sits on. The rubber gasket should be replaced with silicone because of the age of the pump housing. Are you sure there was no bronze washer anywhere, maybe someone repaired the pump years ago and forgot to reinstall the bronze washer?
Still that doesn't explain why the fan would be tight, I would think it would be even tighter without that washer there.
Great, that explains the problem with the scraping and fortunately I do have a new bronze washer and and a very thin rubber gasket that is with it.
Robert, I'm thinking that originally before I started working on the pump that the reason the fan was loose was because all that rust had eaten away part of the fan splines where it slides up on the shaft. Fortunately, John is going to help with a replacement fan.
It would seem that whomever worked on this machine last (many long years ago) did not get everything back together as it should have been, and as a result it did a had a small leak at the pump, enough for the fan to sling water all around the sides of the bottom of the cabinet.
I'm getting my "Unimatic Certification" as I keep learning more all the time.
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