Need advice: How is the performance on a vintage dishwasher?

[francy]

hi all,
i'm restoring an old kitchen, and have started looking at vintage appliances. i came across a ge dishwasher from 1953. apparently it has never been used (owner's manuel and receipt still tucked inside). my husband insists that dishwasher performance has improved dramatically in the past 50 years (e.g. they heat water to a higher temperature and thus sanitze better). is he right? will it clean the dishes as well as a new kenmore? exactly how have diswashers changed in the past 50 years? thanks so much for your help!

 

[SactoTeddyBear]

Re: My Opinion:

Hi! Francy, it is my opinion, that as long as you have the proper Water Temp at the Kitchen for a Dishwasher and use the best Detergent{s} you should be able to get great Washing of your Dishes, Glasses and Cutlery, etc from the "Vintage" GE Dishwasher. Proper Water Temp as far as I'm concerned, should be at least 120-Degrees/F and I've found that using Cascade, Electrosol or Wal-Mart's {Consumer's Reports "Best-Buy"} Great Value Dishwashing Detergent's you should get best results. I would suggest however to not use any Tablet-Type Detergent's though.

I assume that others might have some other opinions, but this is mine and I'm also always up for hearing from others, so I can learn something new as well...

Good Luck and Happy Vintage GE Dishwasher Fun, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

 

[kenmore1978]

vintage dishwashing

This is probably an imipeller=type machine, and in my exprience, they clean just fine especailly with hot enough water & current detergents. The 2 main drawbacks about vintage dishwashers is the lack of the food waste disposer, which is why things had to be pre-rinsed, a habit a lot of people still haven't broken even for current machines. This also often necessitated cleaning filters. The other thing are the short washing times a lot of the machines of that era had. Most of those machines would've gotten better results and ratings if manufacturers hadn't put such an emphasis on the "speediness" of the washing.

 

[gyrafoam]

Pre-rinse all right!

Most of those old machines did a poor job of filtering the wash water ------if at all----and none I can think of would back-wash the filter between cycles. So any accumulation in the filter would have ALL the rinse water (gross!) drawn through it and would remain after the cycle for the operator to remove manually----yech! The bottoms of cups almost always contain fine particles of unfiltered food debris after the cycle is through.

Plenty of hot water is also an issue. Few of the old machines would boost water temperatures. Any type of "sanitary" cycle that boosts the water temperature is a good thing in my opinion. The hotter the water the better the cleaning! (Of course, the MAJOR improvements in the detergents we now use, make a big difference in the performance of the older machines!)

As mentioned previously speed was an issue. They usually only had one main wash with one tiny screen mesh type detergent cup. Nothing like a double wash to insure good cleaning. The only machines I EVER saw do a single wash well were some (rare)speciality KitchenAid machines. I think a full cycle in THREE minutes!

The other thing that comes to mind---especially with a GE is sound insulation. GE's were LOUD! I would invest in a insulation blanket to wrap the machine with before it is installed----unless it is the old "drawer" type and pulls out to load from the top. Not sure how you could go about insulating that.

In my opinion the old KitchenAid machines were the best performing of the vintage machines. (AND they also needed that blanket of insulation to reduce noise!)The early "Superba" models were great! AND they seem to surface on "E-Bay" and "Craiglist" fairly often!

 

[maytagbear]

Another issue--

Impeller machines need to be loaded very precisely, to avoid blocking the water to the upper rack.

Most spray-arm machines have at least 2 wash levels, either with a tower, or an arm on the ceiling of the machine.

For a daily use dishwasher, I would not really want a machine from before 1967-1970. KitchenAid is a good choice for a vintage dishwasher. So would a (RCA) Whirlpool, or an early Maytag. The early Maytag dishwashers had a distinctive loading pattern, plates on the upper rack.

Yes, modern dishwasher detergents are amazingly effective, if they are enzyme formula, like Cascade Pure Rinse powder or either version of Cascade Complete.

Cascade Pure Rinse gel does not have enzymes, and is much less effective.

Good luck.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[rinso]

A 1953 GE is most likely an impeller machine. Having had experiece with our built-in 1954 GE pull-out dishwasher, I have to agree with others that the machine will probably work well if you have very hot water on tap and are careful to pre-rinse and remove all food particles before loading. Load carefully to ensure that water reaches top rack items. Our impeller machines really did a good job on the glasses. IMHO the sheets of water they created, tended to not spot like sprays from spray arms.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Many early dishwashers featured very rigid loading patterns which could lead to frustration if you have been used to using a modern machine with a more versatile loading pattern to load items like food processor parts and cookware. The capacity is usually on the small side, which is not that bad when you consider that their short wash cycles work best on dishes just off the dining table. I believe that 1953 was a transition year for GE, so I do not know if you are talking about the top loading machine or the under-counter roll out. By this time, GE was using a heating element to help keep the water hot, but did not heat water to a higher temperature in the short wash like today's machines can. One of the drawbacks of these machines was that most of them used a Bakelite impeller. These were often not molded properly or finished properly after the molding which could lead to dull edges, something that could also occur after years of use. The less than optimum plastic surface on the edges that pick up and sling the water could lead to very poor washing. GE dishwashers' performance improved greatly after they went to a stainless steel impeller. I do not know the amount of room you have in your kitchen, but I would install a good standard capacity Whirlpool dishwasher (one where the door does not go all the way down to the floor). Pick a model with a wash arm under each rack. I believe that there will be mention made of it having a "POWER CLEAN" system or module. Then have the GE for a fun machine for glasses and lightly soiled items. It would be great for dessert dishes, cups and saucers and other lightly soiled dishes. If you entertain, it would easily handle the table service while the larger, modern machine takes care of large serving pieces and some of the preparation utensils. I often used my vintage dishwashers that way and it worked. The 1953 will need very hot water though. The manufacturers always specified water between 140 and 160F. The new enzyme detergents usually take much longer than the short wash cycles on older machines to do their special type of cleaning, but you can find what works for you. Also, if the water is not hot enough, the dishes will not dry as well as they should. If you have any water hardness situations, I think that you can still find the little baskets of solid Jet Dry to make the rinse water sheet off the dishes so you won't have spots when they dry. They hang under the top rack.

Best wishes for your project.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Francy, I have two vintage dishwashers installed in my kitchen and four in the basement. I use all of them an love them. No they are not going to clean quite as well as a modern dishwasher, but they are so much more fun to have, its worth the SLIGHT extra work. Just let the any baking dishes or pots with baked on food soak in hot water for a bit before you run them through the dishwasher and you will have no problem. You don't need to pre-rinse, but do make sure you scrape most of the food off the plates into the sink.

Go for the vintage dishwasher, sometimes its more fun and you feel better to go for fashion over comfort.

 

[frontaloadotmy]

Hello Francy

Welcome to AW.O . That's exciting that you have a
"light use" vintage GE. I think you will have very acceptable results with it. Those impellers fling a powerful
surge of water. The down side is that until the metal impellers there wasn't good small particle grinding and
expulsion. You could always put one of those "scalding" water
on demand heaters close to it. Not very engery efficient,
but fun! I would love to see your restortion, hopefully you are in "Northern" California.
Darrel

 

[francy]

thank you so much for your helpful replies. it sounds like it probably wouldn't be a good choice for us. with our 2 small children, we try to keep the water heater at a lower setting (safety issues). i also tend to go through a lot of large-type cookware most days (big pots, long cookie sheets), which might be hard to fit. *sigh* i do love the look though. we'll probably hide a modern dishwasher behind a panel. (the kitchen is teeny tiny, so no option of having one vintage, and one modern dishwasher.) it is so nifty looking though....here is a link to the dishwasher (not sure if it is still available). since i highly doubt we'll get it, i'm no longer afraid to share it! hee! thanks again! (just checked link to make sure it works. oh, i do like that look! and never used! i hope it gets a deserving home.)

http://www.craigslist.org/nby/clt/106367929.html

 

[Cybrvanr]

I don't know if you've seen my saga with the Kitchenaid here, but I have been very well pleased with it's performance. I have found that an older high-end model will perform better than a newer bottom line model. That's what I was dealing with in my case.

I had a contractor grade Frigidaire unit in my home. It cleaned fairly well, and was quiet. The cycle times were a little long though. This dishwasher did not heat the water, and it also used a rather basic filter screen in the bottom that all the water went through for both washing, rinsing and draining. Like Gyrafoam mentioned, if food gets trapped on the filter, it will sit there until the end of the cycle, when the operator can clean it out. This dishwasher too, did not have a direct connection to the upper spray arm, and it only received water from an indirect tube that squirted it into the rack from above. Again, top-rack cleaning is a problem with vintage machines that Tom Turobomatic brought up, that still manifests itself in bottom line newer units.

There are a few big things I dind't like about the Fridigaire DW. One is the reversing motor. It only has enough kick to provide either the top or the bottom with washing power, so it switches back and forth during the cycle. This can not only be annoying, but it also makes for lengthy cycles...this DW took over an hour to wash a load. The worst part about this machine is that it is built like a child's toy, with plastic parts all over it. if the impeller, impeller seal, or the motor gets damaged in any way, you cannot replace the parts individually, you MUST replace the entire $150 unit as a whole!

I just recently acquired a Hobart Kitchenaid KD-18 that is about 30 years old or so. My "new" Hobart Kitchenaid however has seveal features above the new/old fridigaire doesn't have. The nicest thing I like is that it has direct plumbing to the upper spray arm, so the top shelf gets washed much better. The cycle time is only 22 minutes too, which is especially nice, since the machine is a bit noisier than the newer units, and you don't need to listen to it longer. The build quality is superb, and it is easy for an average person to repair... (just don't get the parts mixed up!) This dishwasher really does a good job on greasy, caked on grime too!

The advantage I see of modern higher end DW are many like:
Much less noise
Built-in water heating
Self-cleaning filters and garbage disposers
Electronic controls

The DISadvantages are:
Poor build quality and servicability
You must pay over $500 to get features that set them apart from the older machines.

 

[rinso]

This GE dishwasher is identical to our first one we had when I was young. It didn't do too badly, but for your needs, it may not be up to the task. The racks of early machines, especially impeller machines do not lend themselves to random loading, nor were they really designed for odd shaped items like one encounters in today's kitchen chores. One interesting thing about this machine is that its timer was really just a cam driven from the main motor. It was located inside the machine, and not user accessible.

 

[frigilux]

Uni sez...

...you feel better to go for fashion over comfort.

Sage advice if I ever heard it!

BTW, how are plans for your Mad Scientest brand dishwasher coming along? Even though I've railed against such madness in other threads, I'm still very curious about it, especially since today is Halloween and all, LOL

 

[kenmore1978]

vintage upper rack cleaning

was an issue with the older machines. GE and Kenmore adressed this issue fairly early with "Power Tower" and "Roto Rack" respectively intorduced in the early 60's