Need energy and water use stats for clothes washers

[MichaelBluejay]

Hello washer enthusiasts. I'm posting to ask if any of you can share energy and water use figures for any clothes washers you have or know about.

I run a website about saving electricity, where one of the popular pages is my Laundry Costs Calculator, which estimates the cost of energy and water for washers + dryers per loading per year. I'm in the middle of a major upgrade to the calculator, and I'm trying to find more specific energy and water use data to make the calculator more accurate. The kind of data I'm looking for isn't in the user guides or from customer support (I called every manufacturer), and the EPA's figures lump machine energy, energy for heating hot water, and energy to dry the clothes together, so it's impossible to see any of those individually.

The minimum I'm hoping to find is:

* Make, model, and manufacture year of machine
* kWh for machine energy for a standard load (excluding energy for heating the water or drying the clothes afterward), measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter.

I'd consider any of the following to be a bonus

* Whether the washer regulates the hot and warm temperatures, or whether it just takes the hot supply as the hot, and 50% hot and 50% cold for warm.
* If it regulates the hot and warm temperatures, what those temperatures are
* Gallons of water for a wash cycle
* Gallons of water for a rinse cycle
* Water extraction efficiency (by weighing the clothes before and after washing, to see how much water is retained)

Thank you very much for any help you're able to provide!

 

[henene4]

Seeing this, I just couldn't stop smiling and thinking, how many people on here will compare you to the devil (no offense).

Some people around here will defend their high usage machines with a lot of passion. A LOT of passion.

Anyway, you could try reviewed.com or Consumer Reports, they'll have a lot of data you could read through.

 

[johnb300m]

Reviewed.com is a good (free) start.

And no worries! I like conserving as well, as long as performance doesn't suffer.

 

[aquarius1984]

uhm????

"(excluding energy for heating the water or drying the clothes afterward), measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter."

Is that not that going to produce a very flawed set of results where a TL using gallons of hot water heated external to the machine compared to a low water FL heating/boosting its own water?

The ONLY time a TL high water use washer is ever likely goiung to be using less energy than a FL is when the controls are set to Cold/Cold and the wash timer is set to the shortest wash.

 

[murando531]

I, too, smiled at this. I love my HE appliances. My washer and dishwasher use little water and energy and perform SO much better than any machine I've ever used or had in the family. I love conserving resources too, and if I can use less water and detergent and electricity while getting just as good or better results, I'm all for it. That's the kicker though; equal or better results. That's where the big debate starts.

I concur with the others, Reviewed and CR are the safest bets for detailed information. I would test my machines myself, but I don't exactly have proper equipment for that, so I have to go by comparisons to the machines I've owned or used or witnessed working in person.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Hello and Welcome!

First, it seems you understand that there are rather more factors involved in cost-per-load calculation than most people might guess. Congrats and thanks for having that awareness.

A few points to consider:

-- There are 4 possible sources of hot water for a washer: a gas water heater, an electric one, a washer's own heater, and hot water drawn off a boiler producing heat for the home in which the washer is located. Assuming you have a washer that's equipped with its own heater, you have *5* different hot water cost figures because the washers heater could be on or off.

It gets more complicated because if the the washer's heater switch is 'on', it will not turn on if the incoming hot water is above the washer's own definition of "hot". I'm pretty sure that temperature is NOT standardized across the industry. So one needs to know BOTH the temperature of the incoming hot water AND the washer's own definition of "hot" in order for your 5 different figures to be accurate.

That's for a hot wash, with warm it's even more complicated because you have to know how the machine defines "warm" .... And is "warm" the same for each cycle?

-- AFAIK, after energy source (gas or electricity), the given washer's extraction efficiency is the largest single determinant of the cost to dry a given load of clothes.

-- Making a washer (or anything else) requires use of energy and resources. A new washer therefore arrives with its own Carbon Footprint which has to be paid off (by the increased efficiency of the new machine compared to the old) before the owner begins saving the planet by being more energy efficient. BTW, if the old washer is still working properly, the Carbon Footprint of its disposal is added to that of the new one.

-- You know those new, water efficient toilets you have to flush twice more often than not? The same phenomenon exists with washers (and dishwashers for that matter). This is my personal opinion but my belief is that the average person who finds stains on a 'clean' shirt (after laundering in a high efficiency machine) simply drops it into the hamper to be washed again and does not think about it any further, just as the average person does not think about flushing twice. The costs of washing that article twice must be factored into the equation just as the costs of flushing twice must be factored into real world water consumption of a high efficiency toilet.

I'm sure others here can add A LOT more on this topic. Stay tuned

Jim

 

[MichaelBluejay]

Thank you all for your help.

I'm not here to preach, just to collect data.

I'll look through Reviewed.com and Consumer Reports, but from a cursory look, they don't have most of the data I'm looking for.

"Is that not that going to produce a very flawed set of results where a TL using gallons of hot water heated external to the machine compared to a low water FL heating/boosting its own water?"

I'm calculating the energy for heating the water separately.

 

[gusherb]

I would have to use a Kill-A-Watt to see how much power my SQ uses, I'm sure it's a decent bit. Water use would be about 1,032 gallons per month based on 6 loads per week at the full level selection which is approx. 43 gallons per cycle (give or take depending on water level selected and wash options used). All cycles are hot or warm in my case, water heater is gas. Haven't run any numbers on that but I know it's cheap being NG for us was 29 cents per therm for January. My machine is a Speed Queen AWNE82.

I'm all for being efficient but not at the cost of results or in the case of laundry equipment, time.

 

[Brandon]

Oh how I wish we could collect the data in another way. Please ask of the people who visit your site how long their appliances lasted. All the water & energy savings are useless if appliances have to be replaced every five to seven years. One the "front" end of these appliances imagine the ENORMOUS amount of resources expended from mining to hammering out new sheet metal, trucking it, engineers involved in developing it, shipping overseas and to the final consumers. All to be restarted again because it breaks in five years and it's cheaper to buy it again then repair it. Mind boggling. My Maytag Neptune was aesthetically fine. But to replace the bearings a $40 part would have cost $900 in labor. Thus it goes to the landfill or metal recycling depot.

We need a different measure of "efficiency". Not just water & electricity.

 

[washman]

I'm a defender

1. I pay for my utilities. No one else does.
2. My waste water is cleaned and guess what? recycled back into the water supply.
3. We still live in a free market society despite the current administration's views
4. If the HE machines, esp TL were all that and a bag of chips, they would have been on the market years ago. Instead, they are here because the DOE says so, not the consumer.
5. I'd rather have old tech, crude perhaps, machines that last beyond the warranty.
6. Modern HE machines are, to put it mildly, pure overwrought junk.

I won't compare you to the devil. But I will compare algore to the devil.

At the end of the day, it is your money and you spend it as you see fit.

 

[MichaelBluejay]

This is all very interesting, but again, I'm just hoping to collect some data from those who are willing to share it. Thank you for your help.

 

[frigilux]

Very few of us have a Kill-A-Watt meter which is a critical component of the figures you're attempting to compile. Consumer Reports has that information, but they lump it together with the other factors you referenced for their subscribers. You might try e-mailing them, but I'm willing to bet the farm they won't share it with you.

This site will make more sense if you go in with the understanding that the words 'saving energy/electricity' are heard by many members as 'clubbing baby seals' LOL.

Best of luck in your quest, Michael!

 

[washman]

Hi frig!

 

[norgeway]

So called

Energy Efficiency is just a way for the industry to sell new appliances that don't perform as well  or last as long as appliances did in the 50s thru the 70s,..And NO WAY a dishwasher that runs 3 hours is more efficient than one that runs 45 minutes and actually works!I think my Kitchen Aid uses about 15 gallons of water per load.

 

[tolivac]

Yes,I am with another fellow here that uses a machine that uses water and power.Again I pay my energy and water bills.I don't like when other folks try to make it their business what water and power I use.Another resource overlooked here-----TIME!!!As far as I am concerned time is a more precious resource than water or power.You CAN'T get time back.Water is recycled.I have no interest in machine that takes twice to 3 times as long to get the job done.The device just isn't worth owning as far as its concerned to me.And yes the cost of "recycling" newer machines that have "died" since their may be more plastic in them-and mixed at that-its NOT recyclable.It goes to the landfill!When an older machine does finally die-its higher metal content makes it MORE recyclable!And in some machines the motor can be used for powering other things-like tools-or another appliance.

 

[murando531]

Again, to reiterate what the OP is requesting, this is a thread asking for any available information on any washers and dryers, for a website with the purpose of helping people save energy and water if they desire to. No one is asking any of you to give up your water and electricity hungry appliances.

@michael - I just took a brief look at your site and I've gotta say I love what I saw so far. I'm constantly looking out for ways for us to be more mindful of energy, and making our home more efficient, whether it's LED light bulbs or turning the air or heat down a bit or taking advantage of Eco mode in the car or on appliances that have it. We love our Nest thermostat and I adore our HE appliances. If I happen to find any of the information you're looking for on the machines I own, I'll be happy to post them!

 

[norgeway]

My concessions

ALL my lightbulbs are LED, All except our zillions of vintage Christmas lights,,LOL, Im not against energy saving, Im against cheaply made appliances that don't last and don't work all that well.

 

[foraloysius]

Now ladies, please don't get your panties in a bunch over a few modern appliances. What happened to some good old fashioned southern hospitality?

We have a guest here, Michael, who asked a question. If you can't help him out, just don't post in this thread. We already have a thread for ranting about modern appliances. It's here:

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?62164_181~1

Perhaps some of you shouldn't venture into the modern forum anyway. You need way too much smelling salt!

Now give the man some figures or sit silently batting your eyelashes.

Signed,

Your good old Dutch uncle

 

[norgeway]

You are right

And since im Southern..LOL.Im sorry for being rude about new appliances,..I really should keep my mouth shut on some subjects, especially anything newer than about 1970!!!!