Need help selecting a new front load W/D

[techietechie]

Hi,

I love all things vintage, but I'm going modern for my new Washer and/or Dryer.

I am moving into a c1928 Tudor with a 2nd floor laundry closet. Closet has hot and cold water lines with a both a 240 and 120 outlet.

I currently own a 12+ y.o. Bosch Axxis (24" Euro model) washer, but it's getting long in the tooth and I am thinking it may be better to get new. Though I love that it has very few electronics. Need new dryer.

It's just me. I probably wash 3 to 4 loads every 2 weeks...probably (by volume) 1/2 black cotton/synthetic pants, 1/4 synthetic tops (hang dry), and 1/4 everything else. Queen size comforters are max size (though I rarely wash them as they are down). Use only German Persil (color and universal powders and gentle liquid) for detergent.

I don't need wifi, pods, apps or perfumes. Combo must be stackable and 24" (due to closet width). Does NOT have to be a matched pair.

Would prefer heat pump dryer due to length/location of a potential vent (current dryer vent exceeds 30 feet!). Thinking of Miele TXD 160 WP (as I doubt I'll need steam). Thoughts?

If I'm going to buy a new washer, I want the best performing front loader on the market. Like the max temps and spin speeds of the Miele washers, but horrified by the software glitches and don't need the bells/whistles of the automatic dispensing. My current and past Bosch washers (max spin speed of 1000 rpm) have served me well for close to 20 years, but a bit concerned that their quality may have gone downhill after the 27" frontload disasters. Considering the Bosch TXD 160 WP, because of the quick wash and leak detection capabilities.

Or is my 12 y.o. Bosch a keeper?

Thanks for any/all recommendations you can provide.

 

[techietechie]

PS....90% of my washing is in cold water, but I do occasionally use Bosch's sanitary level washing (2 hour cycle, super extra hot) with an additional rinse for whites and/or sheets.

 

[whirlykenmore78]

If you need a good compact set:

The Miele Little Giant pair is the way to go. Far superior to any other Euro sized machines.
WK78

 

[techietechie]

I thought Little Giants were commercial machines and the warranties voided with residential installs? Plus, I don't live in a major metro area (NYC, LA, Twin Cities, Boston, Dallas, Chicago, etc) so I'd be a bit worried about service.

I love the thought (as I actually buy a lot of commercial small kitchen appliances) but given it's just me, I wonder if commercial machines are overkill.

I can see they have slightly higher wash temps, but what other differences are there?

 

[chachp]

My experience BOSCH vs. Miele

 

I had the Bosch Axxis+ pair from 2002 to 2014.  The only reason I replaced them was because my husband convinced me we needed some massive sized front load washer.  We bought a Samsung pair and I hated them.  They did not clean as well and in four years I had three repairs one was a hose came loose underneath and threw water everywhere.  When we bought this house, I sold the Samsung pair and replaced them with a Miele set.  I have the 24” wide set that you can stack or put side by side.  I have them stacked with the drawer in between which is really handy for folding and storing things.

 

I have never had a washer that cleans as well as this washer does.  I have the heat pump dryer and I think it’s just fine.  Nothing really special about it.  Moving from a vented dry to a heat pump was different but it does the job.  I just happened to want a matched set because I’m anal that way.  I don’t experience these hours long drying times that some complain about but it’s just the two of us and my loads are not massive.

 

I also do not live in a major metropolitan area with many service options but there is a dealer here certified to sell and service Miele appliances, so I took the chance.  The only issue I have had with my pair is the reported issue with the WiFi app being buggy since the latest upgrade but I don't use it that much to control the washer.  I like the notifications when it's done so I don't have to babysit them.  The washer does text me when it adjusts the time of the cycle based on whatever criteria it uses.  Nice touch but I don't really give a rip about that.  I haven’t had any of the other issues reported by some except once when the washer was first installed.  I had some error on the screen and honestly I don’t remember now what it was.  That’s the only time.

 

I do not do many cold water washes.  Personally, I don’t think clothes get as clean in cold water but that’s just my thing.  Some feel cold water washes are fine.  I know all cold water washes can be troublesome for washers but if you are doing a weekly sanitary cycle you should be fine.  I’ve never had a mold issue or a smell in any of my front loaders but it’s because I do a sanitary cycle at least once a week and I leave the drawers and doors cracked a little on both my washer and dryer.

 

What I really liked about my BOSCH washer was a separate heated soak cycle.  The washer shut off afterwards and then I could wash or do whatever I wanted to do.  I used this every week to soak kitchen towels and things like that.  The Miele has a soak cycle but it moves into the wash cycle using the same detergent from what I can tell when adding detergent to the drawers.  There is nothing in the drawer designated for the Soak cycle but there is one for the Prewash.  When using the Autodos I’m not sure if it uses new detergent or not.  Maybe someone here can validate.  I didn’t think I would like or use the Autodos but in fact it’s about all I have used lately.  I really like their detergent and how well it cleans.  And ironically, just the other day my husband asked what I was doing with the T-shirts.  He said they just feel so much softer than they used to and they are so white.  Well, I use the Extra White cycle with Autodos and an extra rinse.  Nothing else special about how I wash them but the differences are noticeable.  

 

So, sorry this post was so long but I hope it helps in your decision.  You are going to get as many opinions as you will replies.  Good luck in your decision.

 

[henene4]

10k $

Yeah that certainly seems overkill for 1 person.

But they are tested for 3 times the operation time of the household model.
Way higher heating power, so running them just off of cold would still give quick operations.
Running off of hot gives you US wash times with EU temp accuracy.
And they are extremely flexible for programming.
They have a slight larger drum. More cycles.

For the house hold models, I don't think the WiFi module actually interferes with operations should it ever break down in any case.
Updating the machine firmware and the WiFi module are 2 different things in the app.

I personally like WiFi connectivity just for the updates.
I had an issue with the cool down function causing cycles to abort, and an over the air update fixed that.
So while there are glitches on some models in some situations, Miele at least is working on resolving them!

I'm personally a sucker for MTouch.
I only got the simpler version because I didn't want TwinDos yet.

I do however highly recommend IntenseWash. Having a recirculation system really makes a difference.
And for the US models, that sadly means going quite up the line.
And if you are spending that already, might as well go with the MTouch model.

For the dryer the only reason to really upgrade IMO is getting the additional drying levels.
Cupboard Dry plus is really nice to have and missing on mine.
One can up the drying degree in the settings, but resetting that each and every time when one desires more or less drying for a particular load gets annoying.

 

[henene4]

Forgot to mention

No, using professional machines in a home setting does not void warranty.

The other way around yes, but putting machines in a less demanding environment does not.

However, machines higher in the line than the Little Giants sometimes aren't sold to people for home use.

Certain safety requirements for home use don't apply in the same way to commercial units.
Thus for example the OctoPlus range has a free swinging tub unit without a door seal. The door is attached directly to the tub unit and moves with the tub thus theoretically creating a pinch hazard.

In the US that apparently is enough to keep them out of people's hands.

 

[techietechie]

I prefer as few electronics as possible.

It looks like the only difference between the WXI 860 and WXR 860 is an acoustic signal and the touchpad v. rotary selection.

Does the lesser model:

1. Actually 'ding' (not the app) when a load is finished?
2. Have fewer washing selections (or is it simply the manner in which you select the type of wash)?

Also, anyone know what the tested wash hours are for the residential machines? If I recall correctly, I can get an extended warranty to 5 years, correct?

The logical old school part of me wants the better build quality of the Little Giants. But $8k for a W/D set for a single person seems like overkill

The other option is to get a LiGi washer and one of the residential heat pump dryers.

 

[techietechie]

Also, in reading the LiGi washer manuals, can you clarify my understanding:

Functionality Questions:
1. Can add an additional rinse to any cycle (love it)
2. Does NOT have a soak cycle
3. Do the prewash cycles allow for powered detergent (as opposed to the residential liquid only)?
4a. WetCare...is this their name for a dryclean type cycle?
4b. If so, what type of 'detergent' is used?

Install questions:
5. Needs two US 240v, 30a breakers...without a transformer
6. Does the appliance work with standard diameter residential plumbing (supply and drain)?
7. It does NOT have to be bolted to the floor...I just need to make sure my plywood (over HWF, I think) is screwed into multiple joists
8. Any concerns about a 2nd floor install? (1920s brick house, closet is 5 feet from an external wall, but is supported by a 1st floor wall)

Thanks

 

[pierreandreply4]

maytag

there always this Maytag frontload https://www.maytag.ca/fr_ca/washers....-ft.mhw8630hw.html?originVariantsOrder=M1,WH with the matching dryer https://www.maytag.ca/fr_ca/washers...-ft.ymed6630hc.html?originVariantsOrder=M1,WH

 

[henene4]

Your questions

1) It should, but knowing what Miele is doing to the US, might not.
2) You can check the manual on the Miele website, but it should.

The household machines are supposedly tested for 10k operating hours, and that seems realistic.
The professional line is usually tested for 30k, so 3 times that.

Second post:

1) Not any cycle. For the main Cotton's cycles (Whites and Cotton's Plus) you can set 2-5 rinses. For Minimum Iron you can set 2-4 rinses.
On certain other cycles you can select the rinse plus option.
2) The EU programming does have a 10min soak option, the US does not.
3) Yes, that is mostly because the household machines have a siphon attached to the prewash for the bleaching option. Either way, even on the household machines, you could just add it to the drum directly.
4) WetCare is a process that can be used for certain dry clean only items. Suitable items are marked with a W instead of a P or such on the dry clean label. It still uses water (thus Wet clean) but is very gentle to protect items.
Certain items cannot be wet cleaned as water causes fibres to swell - compared to dry cleaning solvents.
There are a wide range of stain treatments, wash and finishing agents for professional wet clean institutions.
For household use, I would recommend a wool detergent and only using it on items that you are certain you can treat with water (and that you might not care about).

5) Well, kinda.
With full heating power, the washer can pull in the order of 22A.
The dryer pulls on the order of 7A.
That would just about fit in a 30A constraint.
However, in the US, my understanding is that you are only allowed to pull 80% of the 30A continuously, so 24A.
But what constitutes continuously? The washer will barely ever heat for more than 15min at a time.
So in my opinion, there should be no issue connecting both to one 30A circuit.
If your electrician disagrees, these machines should have the option to be converted to a lower heating power by a service technician. The machine has 2 2kW heaters and one can just be removed. That would half the power requirements and thus certainly fit the 30A requirements.
6) Can't really say. The drain pipe is 22mm diameter, so just shy of an inch. Water supply is listed as 1/2" hose with 3/4" union.
7)They say you are supposed to fix the machine to the floor with supplied brackets.
However that is more of a safety thing. It isn't needed for proper operation.
8) Vibrations will be about the same with both residential and commercial options.