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dj-gabriele

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Finally! It was about time my parents decided to fit new appliances in their kitchen (but why force them, the original SMEG ones lasted 30 years without a fault!)
But as now they have methane piped in they must change the stove as a conversion kit from propane is NLA and also the oven begins to not work as it used to, the thermostat might be faulty or the bottom coil doesn't heat all the time.
So big change!

Tomorrow I'm goin to the SMEG show room in Reggio Emilia, near Bologna and take some photos of the appliances I choose for my parents, with the suggestion of being "price-wise".


This is the oven we're going to get.

And this are the hobs:
but with black caps, grills and pan stands.

Here's the dishwasher, a new addition to the kitchen as my mother never had one.

And finally... the washing machine is going to be replaced too as the current one is some 15 years old and with a 400rpm spin the clothes are way too wet:


I wish that they're going for this washer-dryer, also from SMEG... btw, who said that modern washing machine didn't have stainless steel drum and outer tub anymore? Even if only for high end models, SMEG still does, I hope it will last like the older models it's going to replace! Anyway at 1100 euros the washer-dryes is a steal and I'm not sure if they're going to put it integrated or keep a free standing machine in the upstairs laundry room... in this case there is the free standing model WDF16BAX1 (UK market numer) or LSE1602 (Italian market model number) at 350 euros less!

What do you think?

 
Just wondering

Who is it that makes SMEG appliances? I was flicking through the pictures of the dryers and ones looks just like my own siemens dryer, then the next looks like a gorenje.

I get so confused LOL
 
Ovens, fridges, dishwashers and stoves are built in house, washing machines come from Gorenjie (midrange), BSH (top line) and Beko (low end) but the washer dryers I've been told are made in house too
 
Interesting!

I see the oven is a plug-and-play type with only a 13a requirement.

One thing that confuses me, since electricity is so expensive in Europe, why are the ovens used so often electric? ye sI understand performance and suche, but still the cost of running it.............

In the USA, I'd say most stoves are free-standing and include hobs over an oven. Of course in upper-end kithcens here the hobs and ovens are separate. Why are so many there separate ovens and hobs?
 
Mainly it's a matter of style, even if there are many producers of one-piece hobs and ovens like LOFRA or the same SMEG, but usually, in a kitchen, one wants to disguise the appliances as much as possible. The black dishwasher, as an example, is a compromise as it's there only because my parents are using the wood panels from the old kitchen as they want to keep the same look as the former room but a 60cm wide panel wasn't available to disguise the machine.
Even BOL brands like Indesit mosty have separated appliaces, that's just a matter of taste I believe and personally I wouldn't get a kitchen where the white goods wouldn't integrate with the counters.
Even my kitchen, a very BOL one, with Indesit appliances, has completely concealed fridge and dishwasher and integrated oven and hobs.

As for the ovens, the maximum power rating you're going to find (at least in Italy) is 3,3KW as that is the standard power one house gets. Even German brands like AEG or BSH have a maximum power or 3 KW, even on pyrolitic ovens.
It is expensive to run electric appliances but that's the norm as you can't do otherwise and gas simply doesn't cook as better as an electric multifunction oven. If Italy didn't vote out nuclear in 1987 we'd have cheap electricity as in France!

Think that even with our electricity prices there is a flourishing market for induction hobs as they're regarded as "fashionable" and "super cool" to the extent that we have producers like SMEG, AEG and Hotpoint-Ariston that came up with models that only draw no more than 2,8 KW at a time to cope with a standard 3,3KW installation

 
Say it isn't so!

~As for the ovens, the maximum power rating you're going to find (at least in Italy) is 3,3KW as that is the standard power one house gets.

Are you saying that is the size of a typical branch-circuit? I do hope you don't mean that is the incoming service limit!

I don't know. That cooktop in the above link at 3,000 watts max sounds like it is awfully slow.........
 
Yup, the incoming service is 3,3 KW as as standard!

By paying a one time fee of 300€ and a bi-monthly fee of around 50€ you can have an uprating to 6,6KW and that is the most you can get with a residential contract, otherwise, for electric cookers and ovens there is the possibiliy of 400V 3phase but that IS expensive!

On those hobs the electronics play an important role as one most of the time isn't using the full power on all (say) 4 burners so, throttling power on the ones currently in use, one can have satisfactory performance yet not risk a power cut off.

Have a look at this (it's really interesting):

This is model P662-1 for the international market: 30Amps power at 6,8KW max

This is model PI662-1 for the Italian market, that's the same model, but with a rating of 2,8KW at 15 Amps

Say, I'm boiling pasta on the biggest burner at (9/9 power setting) 2,4KW and at the same time I'm simmering the sauce on the small burner at 1,2KW of max power, using, say, setting 3/9 I'm using only 0,4KW.
Here, both models work the same.

If I add another burner, on the medium 2 KW burner, at half power, effectively using one KW, the international version still gives 2,4KW for the bigger burner at max power, 0,4KW for the small one and 1KW for the medium.

The Italian version would give 1,8KW to the biggest burner; 0,3 to the smaller one and 0,7KW to the medium one. Still practical for normal cooking but not convenient if you have to boil or fry in big quantities.

BTW, each branch in an averange Italian home can withstand the full 16 amps of the service but they limit you so that you can't use more than a single big appliance at a time.

Oven SC112NE2 also has (like most electronic ones) a "low power" mode that makes it work on a 10Amps line drawing no more than 2,3KW istead of 3,3KW deactivating the rapid (4 minutes from cold to 200°C) heating so one can use a electric water heater (rated at around 1000 to 1500 watts) at the same time on a normal service.
As my parents have the 6,6Kw service this isn't an issue, also because they have solar and methane heating, but in the summer this could be as the A/C is able to draw 4KW alone when at max power (and it always is at max power!) Plus with the dishwasher and washing machine (both with inbuilt heater rated at 2KW) power cuts are likely and indeed happen some 2-3 times per week (yes, we aren't that good at managing electrical loads at home!)
 
...are you getting a visual? LOL

OMG!

I cant complain, then, about my 110v 30a (he he he he 3.3 kw) service in my 3-room apartment.

The landlord provides heat and hot water, and the cooker/stove is gas... and I can't run "ANYTHING" at once.
Not even my "massager" and an electric toothbrush at the same time.
 
There is a solution...

I have a rechargeable toothbrush so I can use warm water (electrically heated) while brushing my teeth :)

Our standard power supply is 230V/20A (well, that is the rating of the master fuse) equivalent to 4.6 kW.

PS
In the morning I use a hand brush to save energy!
 
I have two 16A circuits. Many years ago (we still had the two phase 220V system) I thought that I had a clever idea for washing and drying at the same time. So I connected the washer to one circuit and the dryer to the other. At first all was ok, but within the hour the main fuse(s) blew and I had to call the electricity company to replace it (them). Only then I became aware of the fact that the maximum current for both circuits together was 20A.

At the time, the installation was well designed as it dates from the 1930's, a time when electricity was almost exclusively used for lighting: one lamp per room, maybe two in the living room, probably seven or eight bulbs for the whole apartment and yet a supply of more than 4 kW capacity.
 
That makes sense! If the building was made in the 30s and had a light electric use but here in Italy, even if each branch is able to withstand the full 16A power, plugging in two energy intensive appliances would trip the meter in almost no time! Everyone has one of the electronic "smart" meters and they're very strict on load as we regulary buy electricity from aboard.
They're programmed to trip after 10 minutes if the load is between 3,3 and 3,6 KW and after 3 minutes if the load is more than 3,6KW. Getting a power uprating is done remotely and only a software update is needed. It would be a dream to be able to use the dishwasher at the same time as the oven or washing machine at my place!
 
Ok yes my 30a service is from 1945+/- at a time when all you had was:

lighting
fan
vacuum cleaner
toaster
radio
(television?)
refrigerator.

But I'm hoping in Italy and in the Netherlands MODERN service is more than 3 to 6 kw.

Now NYC requires 40a 110/220v MINIMUM in an apt where heat and hot water and cooking are non-electric. "Better" wiring in apts is at least 60a. The reason for this is if a gas pipe cracks or leaks [they are nearly or over 100 year old in some buildings] they just seal it off and put in an electric stove/cooker (40a requirement).

Many, many, MANY apts still have gas in every room for the old gas lights. Capped off, but still the pipes are "gassy"
 
In the UK...

Hey Guys

Most houses over here have a sealed "Service fuse" of between 80-100A, flats/apartments are typically 60A.

My best mate lives in Spain and his flat has a maximum load capacity of approx 16A(3.5KW)- so no washing and dishwasher etc at the same time there!.

Seamus
 
*WOW* I never realized peak demand was such a factor in other countries.

I'd seriously think about a small natural-gas powered permanently installed and permanently vented generator. *LOL*

In Cyprus you pay every month based on the size of your incoming service,a s one portion of yoru montly bill. Friend of mane built her new house and the electrician skimped on the power; thought he was doing her a favor. She had the air-conditioning mini-splits put in before they were popular and was constantly blowing out the service.

I was so fed-up with having inadequate service in my rental apts in my youth that I put in 200a 110/220 service in my house. Way overkill; but that was fine by me.

I suppose if the main fuse were in my unit, I'd be OK with it blowing, but running to the buildng manager ever few weeks is nuts.
 
In AU, it's usually 60-80amp main feed.

Once you get above there, the trend is to go to a 60amp 3 phase feed.

We've never managed to trip the main breaker where we are now, but the 3 phase AC in the house I grew up in (Country area) could knock out power for the 5km stretch of our road. It took them 10 years to upgrade the street, to prevent it happening.
 

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