New appliances

[favorit]

Domotics is the future

Appliances are linked to a pc board via usb or wlan. By this board one can select priorities. clean dishes a.s.a.p. are needed ? Diswasher has 1st priority, so washer and oven heaters are switched off until the dishwasher has heated, then they are allowed again.

This can be an advantage even for electric companies as load demands will have less "peaks"

 

[dj-gabriele]

MIELABOR: I have no idea! But also my Indesit machine has a self cleaning filter, I need to take it off only something like once a month, I think that during rinse the pump drains while the wash arms turn at the same time passing water in it on the opposite way!

FAVORIT: I guess it should clean better, it was praised on Altroconsumo as washing better than Miele and costing 500€ less. I can scan the article for you if you want!

 

[toggleswitch2]

oooh Gabriele, nice appliances! Any way I can convince you to go after the pyrolytic self-cleaner instead of the catalytic self-cleaner (shown, with liners)?

My fuse box

110v 30a cpacacity. Should have 2 x 15 a fuses. I have in there one that is a 20a.....

 

[toggleswitch2]

Left 2 boxes of fuses ($4.29 per box of 4)
Center: Screw-in adapters
Right: New style screw-in circuit breaker to replace standard Edison-base scew-in fuses. Just push the button to reset when blown.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Green: 30a screw-in time-delay fuse. Standard Edison base (Style "T"). Main fuse for basement.

Blue 20a screw-in time-delay fuse. "Safety" base-- fits in adapter. prevents greater amperatge fuse fomr being inserted.

Fuse + safety adapter /base = standard Edsion base size.

Buss is the brand name of the manufacturer.

 

[toggleswitch2]

On the right, above, we have a screw-in (mimics fuse) 15a circuit breaker.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Close-up of Green 30a Edison-base fuse [ the main fuse in my apartmens] and 15a safety-type fuse shown inserted in adapter.

The adapter stays in the fuse box "permanently".

I had to get the adapters out of there to fit in Edison base screw-in circuit breakers.

Fuses have been outlawed in new installations for decades.

 

[mielabor]

Mr. Toggleswitch what material are your fuses made from? Your pictures are a bit fuzzy (well, its an exciting subject).

 

[toggleswitch2]

Let's try another picture.

Plastic base, metal top with a glass window.

(I could swear these were ceramic at one time).

Edison-base type have a metal (conductive) thread
Blown fuses are distiguishable by a blackened window and loose metal fragments (i.e. the fusible link).

Above 30a there would be cartridge-type fuses.

 

[toggleswitch2]

my tiny tight little box.

.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Hello my name is Lisa Douglas.....

The mini screw-in circuit-breakers are a godsend. I have a 30a min-breaker in the basment for the main service.
There is supposed to be 2 x 15a up here. I have a 15a and a 20 a mini-breaker. The 20a mini-breaker on the kitchen line.

The fuses and adaptors are for when I move out. (to go back to the way it was). Can't be scrambling last second to find these things; not so common anymore.

Ref= 6.50a
M-wave= 13.20a
dryer= 13.25a @120v* = 1,590w
washer=12.00a
toaster= 11.25a
coffee= 8.3

So the abosolute limit is dryer + ref = <20a in the kitchen.

A/C#1= 8.0a
A/C#2= 5.0a

Let me just say I have FUN in the summer making sure I stay at 28a or below!

*Actual measured voltage.

 

[cadman]

Toggles, I was not aware fuses were outlawed for new installations? I know cartridge style disconnects are still popular outside the residential market. Was this put into the NEC? [genuinely curious]

Cory

 

[toggleswitch2]

Buss is the brand name.

Time-delay feature allows for temporary surges such as motors starting.

 

[toggleswitch2]

The fuse base is 2.54cm wide (1 inch)...I acutally never knew that.

The top of the screw-in mini-breaker is 1.25 inches wide, being 3cm.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Cory,

Sorry my NEC (National Elecric Code) book has been packed away and is in storage from the time I went from the house to thissmall apt. Maybe someone here can say for sure.

Methinks the code dislikes fuses in that they can easily be changed to a higher rating thereby no longer protecting the circuit.

Best regards,
Steve

 

[toggleswitch2]

NYC (perhaps like Los Angeles and Chicago) have local electrical ordinances (laws) that are stricter than the NEC.
So I my be spewing forth NYC rules, and not even be realizing it.

Romex (Plastic sheathed) cable was only recently allowed in NYC; BX (metal sheathed was the rule). IIRC this has something to do with the NEC now requiring a separte grounding conductor in cables; one may not rely upon the metal sheath alone for grounding/earthing. Of course without a separate grounding conductor METAL junction boxes were mandatory to ensure contnuity.

I see in 220v lands that a MAIN GFI/residual-current detector is employed in the fuse-box ("consumer unit="> UK). I am wondering if arc-fault interruptors are common across the pond. The NEC now requires them here for bedroom circuits, in new construction.

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/afcifac8.PDF

 

[dj-gabriele]

230V Land and AFCI

I think that devices as stand alone breakers are virtually unheard of here!

I have read the paper you posted and their purpose is interesting but since by law all the circuits must be double insulated, it isn't necessay as there isn't any possibility for a cable enclosed in an insulator tube buired in plaster to get fire.

You have the line, neutral and ground PVC coated wires, then a plastic cable tube that contains them and, in masonry or reinforced concrete buildings, like 99% of what happens here, everything is buired in plaster.

Typical installation have, at least since 1968, because it became mandatory (but it was used even earlier) the "salvavita", "lifesaver" a combination of magnetic thermal breaker and GFI.

So as I said I have never seen a fusebox in all my life!

Anyway, returning to the AFCI, I think that with the double insulation it is unecessary, also thermal magnetic circuit breaker serve the same purpose at it as should a sourge happen beteen two cables the magnetic part of the breaker would swich and if there was an over current sustained in a longer time the thermal part would cut off. Anyway, I have to add that it says AFCI prevents fire due to deteriorated live to live insulation. Since here there is only one live cable, the GFI is enough as every fault, even a 30mA or 10mA leak will be detected and the circuit cut off. Should the live cable be punctured, say by a drill, or by hanging a picture, the GFI would trip immediately as there would be a current leakage. Either via the drill needle, ground cord and wall or via the picture holder and needle in the wall.
Maybe that devices are famous in the USA because of the variety of services you can get in a house like live to live 220V or 208V phase to neutral, 120V and the lack of standard double insulation?

I'd like the pyrolitic self cleaning oven istead of the catalytic one but it isn't available in black and besides, it would be too expensive at more than 1100 euros! This onven is already on the expensive side at 756€ even if we're getting the 15% discount as we're getting 5 appliances there.
The former oven was the catalytic kind and we never had problems in 30 years, so I guess this one will do too.

Here's the link to the pyrolitic oven in glass and stainless steel:
http://www.smeg.it/Catalogo/Product/SCP112-2.aspx?Req=14810801

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it.wikipedia.org

 

[mielabor]

@steve: from your first (fuzzy) pictures I already suspected that your fuses were made from some plastic material. That is why I asked: our fuses are porcelain and filled with sand to extinguish the arc when the fuse blows. I know from experience that fuses can get quite hot (impossible to touch with bare hands in fact) so it seems strange to use plastic for fuses.

@Gabriele: is the pyrolitic oven also "A" rated for energy efficiency? I have always been told that the pyrolitic cleaning cycle uses a lot of energy.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Yes, it's A class too, the pyro cleaning isn't counted on the energy label as it is supposed to be run only once every one or two months. The ECO pryolitic cycle uses 2,8KWh while I don't know about the intensive 3 hour cycle, but I suppose it might be even double!

 

[MrX]

Our older installations also use the same beer-bottle-shaped 'Diazed' fuses described in the posts above by Mielabor.

However, they stopped being installed in the 1970s sometime. Only some hard-core luddite electricians who refused to trust breakers continued using them until they were actually phased out of the wiring regulations.

We still use a single switch-fuse which looks like a fat breaker, but contains a fuse as the main switch on every distribution panel to prevent the system from blowing the service fuse in the event of an overload.

Typically an Irish house supply is 63amp (very old), 80amp (small house/apartment) or 100A (larger house).

This is usually plenty of power for a typical home as we don't have air conditioning or heating loads. Electric heating is very unpopular and air conditioning is simply not necessary in Ireland. It never gets much above 25C.

The majority of homes are heated by hydronic (water-filled radiators) heated usually by natural gas, LPG or pressure-jet oil. Increasingly we're seeing some biomass (wood pellets) arriving into the fuel mix too.

Peak demand is rarely a problem in Irish homes, except where someone has installed several instantaneous showers (these draw up to 14kW)

Usually, a system can support one of these, but if someone installs two and operates them simultaneously they can over load the panel and cause the main fuse or master-breaker to trip or blow.

There's certainly enough power available for all the usual kitchen appliances, normal water heaters, washer, dryer etc etc

Although, you do get 'cowboys' or DIY enthusiasts who will decide to retrofit a new kitchen to a home wired in the 1950s or earlier. That can get very expensive as all the decor has to be ripped out to rewire the house after the fancy kitchen has already gone in.

There's absolutely no risk of ever tripping the supply fuse (power company fuse) at the meter, as the main fuse / master breaker on the customer's distribution panel will always activate first.

This has always been a requirement here, going right back to the 1920s.