New Garbage Disposer

[sudsmaster]

Why would the motor freeze up if the disposer is uninstalled and not being used?

FWIW, this disposer has been performing poorly for about a year now. If it was due to a bad seal/bearing, I would think that it would have frozen long ago.

Personally I think it performs poorly because the cutters are so worn and rounded, they knead the garbage instead of shred it.

 

[hoover1060]

well..

I had an 8000 rpm GE that was working fine when I swapped it out for something else, it sat for a while, and the motor froze up. I also have a 1976 ISE that did the same thing, installed two days and its frozen.
I am hoping its not the case with the WK.
I suspect the worn parts on your WK would be the hammers, and maybe the upper teeth. WK had the "lifetime grind size control slots" which basically would not let the garbage drop below the disk until it was ground small enough to go thru the slots. With the upper teeth and hammers worn, that would make it slow, although I have never known any older WK to be what I would call fast...
That Titan is probably lightening fast compared to the WK?

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, the Titan is, as I think I've said, much much faster than the old WK. Infinitely faster, because the WK simply couldn't handle chopping rubbery things like cartilage at the end of chicken thigh bones. The stuff would just bounce off the rounded cutters and pretty much stay in the disposer until one added a lot of other stuff, like maybe citrus peels, which could be massaged through the slots and take some of the cartilage with them. I think it needs to be renamed "Worry King", because it worries rather than shreds garbage ;-)

One of these days when I have too much time on my hands I'll see if I can tear down the WK and put a new edge on the impellers. I might even be able to do that with a Dremel tool extension with a small grinder wheel on the end, with the impellers/cutters in place.

BTW, I visited Home Depot today and looked at their line of Insinkerators. The top of the line was their something Excel (similar to the Pro Excel in the ISE brochure I have), and that was $299. I could get four Titans for that price! It looked nice, with very sturdy cutters, not as nice as the Pro line, but I'm not thrilled with the non-removable waste guard on the ISE line. They also had the Badger series, for the same price as the Titan, but which I would avoid. The Feb 2004 CR reviews gave them very poor ratings... plus they aren't stainless, but rather galvanized steel.

In any case, the cutting plate on the old WK turned as easily as that on the new ISE's.

 

[hoover1060]

Definitely keep us posted on the WK overhaul. That is worth the time and effort to put the new edges on.

As to ISE models, the only one I would have is the Excel model, with both the fixed and movable hammers. ISE now uses a removable guard too, supposed to be quieter. I would rather have no disposal at all than a Badger, had one in an apartment, and it was dreadful. I currently have my ISE PRO77 installed in my sink, it ate a small steak bone tonight without too much fuss, but I did have some shrapnel!!

 

[sudsmaster]

So far the only problem I've noticed with the Titan is that it tends to spit somethings back atcha. Like chicken leg bones. I guess I'll have to start using the strainer as a pusher to keep the shrapnel down to a manageable level when shredding chicken parts.

 

[sudsmaster]

Was back in Orchard Supply Hardware today, and saw that they carry the full Waste King line (used to be they carred the Kenmore line). The WK3300 seems to be pretty much the same thing as the Titan T-960 I got. $99 at OSH; $69 at Costco. Picked up a spare guard and stopper, and also a dejamming tool. Wish I had had the dejamming tool when I was running the vintage WK ;-). Titan has yet to jam.

 

[hoover1060]

The Titan probably won't ever jam, those things turn at 1000 rpm faster than the old WK...you're going to have to try really hard to jam it!
I have the Whirlaway version of your Titan, nice machine but I don't like the noise.
I do think they grind better than ISE too!

 

[luxflairguy]

But which one to buy?

Jeff--this is probably on your list. I have a year old ISE Evolution Excel in my sink. Hate it! Louder than my old 777ss and leaves lots of things unground-imho. Looking to replace. Suggestions? I want lots of power, quietness and good grinding.
Are the new Kitchenaids the same as my ISE? Kenmore? Or should is go completely different and do a WK? What about GE--Consumer Reports says the GE is made by WK.
Luxflairguy--Greg in Seattle

 

[hoover1060]

well my 2 cents would be...

First a dumb question: Why would you replace the 777SS with an Excel, did it die?
I have not tried the new ISE models(yet) but from what I have seen of the Excel model, it would be slower than an older model because of its setup. The Excel has both fixed and swivel hammers, and the under cutters as well, so its chewing the garbage down finer than previous models, which will take longer.
I have no explanation as to why it could be so noisy, save for maybe is it mounted correctly? If its not hanging level, the hammers will not be able to balance, and it will vibrate and be noisy.
Today there are basically only 3 companies left that make disposers. ISE, Anaheim, and White Rock. White Rock models are cheapie made in China things under the name of SinkGuard, Dura-Pro, and Monarch.
ISE makes for Sears, Kitchenaid, Maytag, Whirlpool, Emerson, Home Depot(Maintenance Warehouse) and some other private brands.
Anaheim is Waste King, GE, and formerly Sinkmaster and Whirlaway.

I guess if I were to suggest a disposer thats different than the ISE it would be the following one, a Whirlaway. This is Anaheim made, 3/4HP, well made, and powerful. I prefer this over the GE and WK models becuase it has the metal 3-bolt mount instead of the plastic mount of the others. This is a good disposal, I have one that I rotate in now and again. It will eat almost anything(including steak and pork chop bones!) The only downside is its a little louder than an ISE.
I have a youtube video of my Whirlaway in action, I will attach it to the next post.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Garbage-Disposa...ryZ42022QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[hoover1060]

Whirlaway Pro in action

Here is the Whirlaway in action. I like the performance, but it is a bit louder than an ISE.
The splash guard used with the 3-bolt mount models is light years better than ISE's
Here at least you can see how fast this chews up some typical stuff from a Saturday night dinner at my place.

I also must confess I have never been kind to my garbage disposal. If I can fit it down the opening, it goes. I have yet to have one jam on me, and only once did I have a clogged sink from one...I put onion peelings down a Badger in an apartment I lived in. The mess from the clogged pipe was horrific!!

 

[luxflairguy]

A badger!!

I confess, the Excel is in a different house than the 777ss. Sold that one (Palm Desert), bought a townhouse in Seattle with original Whirlpool disposal--31 years old- rusted through--house hadn't been lived in for 3 years! Have gone through a 3/4 hp Kenmore and on to the Excel. Never thought about bringing the 777 with me!
My former Seattle house had a Badger for quite a while...until a friend said "oh! I put mussel shells down mine all the time!" WRONG!!! Dead grinder and the biggest mess I'd ever seen!
Now I think I'll have to decide again!

Thanks for the advice!
Greg

 

[sudsmaster]

Mussel shells down a disposer??? Probably a sure way to blunt the cutting edges and put a cement like mud down the drain pipes. Yeeech. On the other hand, torturing the Badger with mussel shells is probably fitting punishment for apparently one of the worst excuses for a disposer on the market.

If I'm not mistaken, the reason why the Anaheim-made disposers tend not to jam much is because they use permanent magnet motors, which have full torque on startup - as opposed to the ISE which is an induction motor, requires a primary winding for startup that has far less torque than develops once it gets up to speed.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the only difference between the Whirlaway that Hoover has and the Titan that I have is the mounting system. Both motors are 3/4 HP permanent magnet and I assume the cutters and grinding chambers are identical. The Titan is also identical, save for the exernal shell, to the WasteKing 3300; both have 10 year warranties.

I'm also surprised that the ISE performs so poorly. That model is the top of the line, with all sorts of nifty features, including as Hoover mentioned, the three stage grinding, plus exclusive anti-jam circuitry, reversing motor, closed cell sound insulation, and a splash guard that directs water into a flowing sheet to help cut down on emitted noise.

 

[hoover1060]

Greg,
Watch ebay for an ISE777, there are still some around to be had, as well as the PRO77(which I am currently using) or even a PRO-SS
Good Luck, and pleae let us know what you decide on.

Rich,
You are correct, the Titan is identical to the WK SS3300 and the Whirlaway as far as mechanicals go, the only real difference is the mounting. The Whirlaway uses WK's old three bolt mounting system, which is also available on the WK Custom Series, and Franke brand, as well as the Mountain Plumbing models showing up on ebay here and there.

Mussel shells in a Badger, fitting end for one of those. The worst I have ever seen any disposal fed was when I was a kid, my mom put the bones from a spare rib dinner down our old Hotpoint Disposall...the noise was unbelievable, but it ate the bones without jamming!

 

[mattl]

Disposer memories...

When I was a kid we had our first disposer in the new home my folks built. It was a builders special ISE, pretty poor from the start, but what did we know... Anyway a few years after we used it everyday it was getting pretty raggedy and my mother dropped a peach pit in it, turned it on, and whoosh the peach pit went flying out the side of the unit. Made a lot of noise when it hit the cupboard door.

It was replaced with the first of two Maytag/Jenair disposals. What a difference.

 

[sudsmaster]

Not really sure why it was necessary to put a peach pit down a disposer... these will sit in the garbage can very quietly until trash day without making a stink or a fuss... but that it spelled the end of the bottom feeding Badger probably made it all worthwhile...

Badgers have only galvanized steel grinding chambers and disks, so probably the poor thing finally was held together with no more than a thin layer of rust, and the peach pit was the last proverbial straw.

 

[tolivac]

Badger and the 828 tube

In an apartment I used to live inA friend and I fed the "Badger" an 828 transmitting tube we pulled from a stations transmitter-the tube was shorted so we wanted to get rid of it in an unusual and final way--FEED IT TO THE BADGER-that little guy at the whole thing!!And it wanted more!There are better machines for cheap disposers the Badgers are the mostr common.

 

[hoover1060]

Peach pits

are actually good for disposers, they will scour out all the sludge that builds up...

Plus you gotta love the sound they make too!

 

[sudsmaster]

Anaheim sells a nice stiff brush twisted into the shape of a grinding chamber for getting rid of the grunge that builds up.

I'd rather use one of those than wear down the cutters unnecessarily.

 

[hoover1060]

one sad part

About having an SS cutter vs the old cast ones... they wear faster..

 

[sudsmaster]

There's always a trade-off between hardness and brittleness. Stainless steel is inherently tougher than regular steel, but softer. It can be hardened (as those who have stainless chef's knives know), but it becomes more brittle as well. The stamped steel swivel impellers can thrash around quite a bit and therefore are probably unsuited to a high degree of hardness, because they might shatter with all the impacts. A cast stainless impeller might not be any harder than a stamped one, depending on the alloy composition and heat treatment it received in manufacture. But since it might be "beefier", perhaps it could be harder without risk of shattering on expected impacts.

For what it's worth, the impellers in the old WK are stamped stainless, and appear not to be particularly hard (as their rounded edges indicate). The impellers in the Titan are cast stainless. Whether they are any harder (and therefore retain their sharpness longer) is unknown to me. There are scientific methods for measuring the hardness of metals. The trick in the case of these disposers would be getting the impellers out of the disposer so they could be inserted into the test machine. A cruder method could be scratch testing with scribes of various known hardness.

In any case, I think to maximize the useful lifetime of a disposer, one might want not to subject it to very hard or abrasive materials (like nut and shellfish shells) and use citrus peels and a disposer brush instead to maintain a clean grinding chamber. A periodic "purging" with a sink full of water will also help flush any debris down the drain. This may be especially true of disposers with stainless steel grinding chambers, which won't be corroded by lingering food residue, at least not nearly as much as designs with galvanized steel and/or cast iron grinding chambers might be.

I've read that running ice cubes down a disposer will help sharpen the cutting edges. I'm not sure why this would be. Ice is hard and can be expected to dull the sharp edge on metal - hence the need periodically to sharpen ice skate blades. After all, we don't sharpen our chef's knives by chopping ice with them...